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Fullmetal Alchemist Regenerationn revision

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I'm still on board for Low-Godly (limited ofc), but IDK why "High-Mid" is even being argued.

Lust was vaporized by Mustang. Regenerating from that is Mid-High. Worst-Case, I'm fighting for At least Mid-High BARE MINIMUM, or Limited Low-Godly.

Again, the bodies are going to always be restored NO MATTER WHAT as long as there are souls within the stone. Whether this is "once or twice" or "hundreds to thousands" of times is irrelevant, as it is still Low-Godly regen. It just stops all together once the souls run dry.

This happens for all Homunculi who are killed through conventional means: Lust, Envy, Sloth being prime examples. They simply faded away if they can't regenerate anymore.
 
Low-High from what I'm gathering is based upon Lust calling her Philosopher Stone her heart. ( which is a false statement, for ***** sake the word Heart is even in quotation marks, this is actually never once stated again after this incident ) which is wrong for various reason. The Philosopher's Stone acts as the essence of the Homunculi, not the actual heart of the Homunculi. Also the Philosopher is much more akin to that of a liquid as opposed to a solid material like the stone, Roy's Alchemy is based around extremely heat, precision and explosive power, logically the Stone would have been vaporized along with Lust herself in that attack.


Some people also seem to be confused on how the Regenerationn works, as long as the Stone contains Souls the Homunculi will continue to regenerate endlessly. So in a case where a Homunculi is vaporized, they'll use the souls from within the stone to regenerate or form another body entirely, the soul that they regenerated from is then destroyed in the process. Rinse, lather and repeat. The process will continue until the amounts of souls are depleted from the Stone, then and only then will a Homunculi die. Their Regenerationn is never directly overpowered, not in a single instance.


I'll make another post in a hour or two about what the Stone is, how it's made, what the substance itself is actually made of, and how at the very least Father in his Evolved and God state would have Low-Godly for being an immaterial being and regenerating from the souls from within himself.
 
This is barely important, but the philosopher stone appear both in liquid and solid form. But yes, it was entirely unaffected by the heat and at no point does a stone recieve any sort of damage from any source.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Monarch, read my response to AKM again. AKM specifically stated that nobody in FMA needs to kill Souls, which I corrected him on.
Click to expand...
Yeah and nobody NEEDS to specifically kill souls. Marco did and that's great. He just reduced the number of lives or amount of times Envy can regenerate. He didn't need to do that. He could have easily killed Envy enough number of times like Mustang.

Your point doesn't even refute anything of what I said. And just because the stone has not been broken or damaged, doesn't mean it is indestructible. That's basic NLF.
 
Alright, let's get this finished once and for all. I have objectively more important FMA revisions to attend to so I'd like to make this quick.


The Stone, how it's made and what it's composed of
The Philosopher's Stone goes by many names, The Sages Stone, The Stone of Heaven, The Great Elixir, The Red Tincture, the Fifth Element. The Philosopher's Stone acts as an Alchemical Amplifier that allows to make the impossible possible and for a very good reason. The Stone allows for the user to bypass the Law's of Equivalent Exchange The Law of Equivalent Exchange, which is based upon two concepts. the concepts are the Law of Mass Conversion and the Law of Natural Providence now what does this mean exactly? The Stone has the ability to turn Inorganic Matter into Organic Matter, and vice versa, The Stone also allows the user to create something out of nothing. The latter is the most important part to take away for the next part of this.


how is the stone made?


Quite simple, anyone who's bothered reading the Manga, or even the non-canon anime ( which is probably most of you tbh, a anime masterpiece. ) this stone is made from souls more specifically human souls are sacrificed and used in the Stone this is stated several times in the manga and it's quite literally the plot-point of the entire series.


What is the stone made of?


Arguably the most important thing here to note, given the fact that some peeps here are completely clueless to what the stone actually is. But let me start this off by saying this, anyone arguing that the Stone is an actual Stone like a random rock clearly isn't very knowledgeable on the series, therefore the argument of High-Mid needs to be dropped immediately, and it's best if the OP could remove it from the original argument as he doesn't even agree with it anymore.


The Stones composition is also pretty simple to comprehend. The Philosopher Stone is composed of a High-energy Substance as stated by Edward Edward being the same person who's seen a decent chunk of The Gate of Truth twice, which grants anyone who passes through it immense knowledge, and has the direct research material from Doctor Marcoh who's the one that makes the Stone to begin with. the souls ARE the ingredients for the Philosopher Stone Edward even turns himself into a Philosopher's Stone, which is simply a soul The Philosopher's Stone is nothing more than the mere Amalgamation of Souls given form. And the Stone isn't the actual heart of the Homunculi, The Stone isn't an organ and they already have normal hearts. To a Homunculi what the Stone is, is their core, their essence, etc.


Normal Homunculi Regenerationn
Now we'll dive into the Spicy stuff, as we know The Philosopher's Stone has the ability to create something from nothing as shown several times, this alone should be evident on how potent the Regenerationn for the Homunculi should be, as that alone would mean they're able to recreate their bodies if nothing is left. Of course as long as the Philosopher's Stone still has it's tempest of Souls, but for those of you who prefer actual shown feats then we can do that too.

Homunculi can easily regenerate from Mid levels of Destruction Mid-High as Lust as vaporized ( at least her physical body. ) once again Mid-High for the Physical body being blown to bits ( Note: Gluttony regenerated without his Stone even being present in the upper half of his body.) creating new bodies from the Stone even after the pshycial body has been dusted these feats alone should debunk any notion that they should only have Low-High Regenerationn, at least for the actual bodies of the Homunculi in question.


Father and Hohenheim
Alright, this is another good topic, one that the majority of us agree with having Low-Godly aside from Monarch, who's wrong for several reasons and is proven wrong by the actual manga itself and by Hohenheim.


first of all Hohenheim IS the stone, nothing but a mere human being with thousands souls within him which is stated several times said souls within him are intangible, and we already know that Homunculi regenerate directly from these souls. Trying to claim that if his body is destroyed then the souls will also be destroyed is completely asinine. As long as the souls exist they'll continue to regenerate and resurrect Hohenheim, so unless both his body and surplus of souls are nuked then he'll continue to regenerate until the souls are depleted.


Furthermore Hohenheim attempted to use Monarch's little theory of destroying the body in order to attempt to rid the world of Father. but... what do you know? Father sheds his physical body and takes the form of a mass of immaterial shadows a state that's similar to that of his original form matter simply phases through him Greed another Homunculi also finds himself unable to interact with Father
 
Yeah and nobody NEEDS to specifically kill souls. Marco did and that's great. He just reduced the number of lives or amount of times Envy can regenerate. He didn't need to do that. He could have easily killed Envy enough number of times like Mustang.


.... you aren't following this properly are you mate? Whenever a Homunculi dies and resurrects the soul they used to regenerate from is then destroyed and they move onto to using the next soul. The souls from the Stone need to be burned through by killing the Homunculi over and over, or attacking or ripping the souls directly. That's what's being argued so I'd prefer if you didn't misconstrue arguments soley to make yourself seem right. All I'm gonna say to you is that if your arguing High-mid that truly shows how knowledgeable you are in this case.


Your point doesn't even refute anything of what I said. And just because the stone has not been broken or damaged, doesn't mean it is indestructible. That's basic NLF


Ah, so your gonna both stone-wall and be ignorant of the evidence that's already present in this thread? Gotcha. Edward directly states that a perfect substance such as the Philosopher's Stone cannot be broken, as stated in chapter 1 of the Manga. Again, I'd appreciate it if you weren't so dismissive about the evidence that's already present in this thread.
 
AKM sama said:
Low-High is fine if the argument for it is that the stone can exist as a liquid.
Click to expand...


Already covered that, also I'd like to hear your input on the on-going Reiatsu thread considered you're the user who's going around saying it isn't accepted. here At the bare minimum, Evolved and God Father would have Low-Godly, even if it's only as a Possibly.
 
"Whenever a Homunculi dies and resurrects the soul they used to regenerate from is then destroyed and they move onto to using the next soul. The souls from the Stone need to be burned through by killing the Homunculi over and over"

You're literally repeating what I said in my first post and calling me ignorant? Guess who is misconstruing arguments huh?

"Edward directly states that a perfect substance such as the Philosopher's Stone cannot be broken"

Textbook NLF.

Also you need to chill. Using terms like ignorant, stonewalling, etc doesn't really help your case.
 
You're literally repeating what I said in my first post and calling me ignorant? Guess who is misconstruing arguments huh?


I'm calling you ignorant for different reasons, such as saying i haven't refuted anything you've said, despite me having had posted factual evidence eariler in this thread, if you could take the time to scroll up. The point being is that all the souls need to be nuked in order to stop the Regenerationn. Single-target is a non-issue to them, as they have a surplus of hundreds to thousands of souls within them, that'll heal any and all damage done to them.

Textbook NLF


And how is an object not even having durability to begin with a No Limits Fallacy? Nobody is claiming that the Stones have infinite Durability, the claim is that durability doesn't even apply to them to begin with given their nature. Alternatively you could scale it's "durability" to 7-C, but that would **** up the scaling of the verse like no tomorrow.


Also you need to chill. Using terms like ignorant, stonewalling, etc doesn't really help your case.


Calling a spade a spade is exactly that. If someone's is being unwillingly ignorant, and not as a personal insult then I'm going to call them ignorant because that's a ignorant mindset to have during a debate. Anyway this is an irrelevant point and has nothing to do with the discussion.
 
"I'm calling you ignorant for different reasons, such as saying i haven't refuted anything you've said, despite me having had posted factual evidence eariler in this thread, if you could take the time to scroll up."

And still not refuted anything. I already outlined why it's not low-godly. But it's nice to see that now you agree with my point. Low-high is the most they'll get.

I'll get to Father and Hohenheim later.
 
Play nice, please. Prince, cut the aggressiveness a smidge. Fighting against each other ain't gonna solve your problems, and I'm saying this to the both of you.
 
And still not refuted anything. I already outlined why it's not low-godly. But it's nice to see that now you agree with my point. Low-high is the most they'll get.


Unfortunately for you, your explanation does make very much sense, and quite literally everyone on this thread agrees with Low-Godly for two, don't try to come at me with "Monarch agrees with me." either, since he had his own reasons which I've debunked. Low-High isn't the most they'd get either, considering A: Mid-High exists and B: The Stone has the capacity to make raw material out of nothing. But I have also noticed how you haven't even countered a single one of my scans or points on my other post for whatever reason. It's Low-Godly for the two of them, it's just limited in nature since the soul is sacrificed by the Stone in order to regenerate and create entirely new bodies, and even that's countered by the fact they can all absorb more souls at any given moment.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
The Stone allows for the user to bypass the Law's of Equivalent Exchange The Law of Equivalent Exchange, which is based upon two concepts. the concepts are the Law of Mass Conversion and the Law of Natural Providence now what does this mean exactly? The Stone has the ability to turn Inorganic Matter into Organic Matter, and vice versa, The Stone also allows the user to create something out of nothing.
Click to expand...
Stones don't bypass the law of equivalent exchange at all and do not create something from nothing. That is a point that is many many many times reinforced every time someone brings it up after the stone's true nature is revealed. They make it so that what you are exchanging is the souls contained within the stone instead of any physical matter. It gives the appearance of bypassing the law because the amount of transmutation you can do and matter you can summon out of seemingly nowhere is completely disproportional to the size of the stone, but make no mistake you are exchanging a soul for a soul matter or energy of some kind. There is still a law of equivalent exchange going on.

The Prince of Counters said:
and we already know that Homunculi regenerate directly from these souls
Click to expand...
We know absolutely no such thing. Homunculi regenerate by automatically converting the souls in the stone into the new matter of their body in accordance with the law of equivalent exchange. They do not regenerate directly from the souls, they convert the souls into the new matter. But the souls are still contained within a material form, and if that material form is completely destroyed they will have no souls remaining to regenerate from.
 
Citation, please. Because I only remember that ever being stated in the 2003 anime which is non-canon, and yes the Stone does create something from nothing, just at the cost of a soul. As I said, as long as those souls are in the stone they can create pshycial matter out of thin air, and this is both seen and stated several times. There might be a caveat in the sorts when it comes to how many times it can happen, but by sacrificing a soul, one can create pshycial matter out of nothing.


We know absolutely no such thing. Homunculi regenerate by automatically converting the souls in the stone into the new matter of their body in accordance with the law of equivalent exchange. They do not regenerate directly from the souls, they convert the souls into the new matter. But the souls are still contained within a material form, and if that material form is completely destroyed they will have no souls remaining to regenerate from.


Again, citation of your claim is needed. You orginally asked me to post scans to support my claims, and as an Administrator you should know damn well that you also need to do the same. Quite literally all your doing is arguing semantics, at the end of the day they're sacrificing the souls from within the stone in order to regenerate and repair any damage done to the pshycial body, even if it means creating a new one entirely. And no, Father quite literally proves that theory wrong, the souls aren't just gonna fly out of the stone like that without being burned through, destroyed or ripped out with hax.
 
It is not out of nothing. It is out of a soul.

The fact that you have apparently missed a major thematic element of the story in preference of assuming it to be the "more powerful option" does not give me faith in the objectiveness of your analysis here. Nor does the fact that you have outright misused several scans by ignoring the context surrounding them.
 
Everything Monarch is saying here makes sense. Low-Godly is not the correct rating for them based on that.
 
The fact that you have apparently missed a major thematic element of the story in preference of assuming it to be the "more powerful option" does not give me faith in your objectiveness here. Nor does the fact that you have outright misused several scans by ignoring the context surrounding them.


Alright, first of all I'm gonna tell you to drop the tone and the accusations of me misusing scans and ignoring context. Trust me mate, you don't wanna go down that road.


I've already explained everything in my comments above, everything your currently arguing for is false. Start posting scans, or simply shut up.
 
Damage3245 said:
Everything Monarch is saying here makes sense. Low-Godly is not the correct rating for them based on that.
Click to expand...


It is, as agreed by several staff members and knowledgeable users. Monarch himself is completely clueless as to what he's talking about and has yet to post a single piece of evidence or citation.
 
Actually you know what, **** this shit. Unfollowed, if you want to genuinely sit here, ignore all of my scans, throw accusations around, make claims without citation or anything then I don't give a shit. Go right ahead and downgrade them to low, because I'm ******* done here.
 
@Prince you literally used a scan from the first freaking chapter of the manga to try and back up that the stones could create something out of nothing even though there is an entire scene several chapters later after the protagonists have actually learnt what a Philosopher's Stone is where they admit that everything about it letting you obtain something from nothing was a lie. And considering you use scans from chapters beyond that and claim to be knowledgeable about the verse, you likely knew that scene existed. So yes, I do believe that you have intentionally misused scans by posting them without acknowledging the very statement you are using in them is later discussed to be false by the very people making that statement.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Fighting against each other ain't gonna solve your problems, and I'm saying this to the both of you.
Click to expand...
Ummm I don't quite understand who the other person is. If you were referring to me, I'm clearly not fighting here and nothing I've said in this thread should give you that idea. If it's not for me, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.
 
I heavily agree with Monarch here. The highest level of regen anyone has displayed is High-Mid, not even Low-High. But I can agree with Low-High given that the stone can work normally even in liquid form. Also they should have reliant immortality, if they don't already have that.

Also I'm vehemently against giving anyone Low-Godly level of regen without any feats to back it up just based on speculation. We don't do that here. And it doesn't even fit here because of the reasons I and Monarch already outlined. Low-Godly would mean that they can't die no matter how many times you destroy their bodies unless you specifically destroy their souls, and that's factually not the case. They have a finite number of lives/souls and physically killing them enough times is gonna permanently kill them.

Another thing that bugs me is why is Father intangible? Apparently the reasons given are scans where he actively dodges teacher's attack by changing the shape of his body , dodges Greed's attack in the same way. None of these examples show him actually phasing through any attacks.
 
I agree that Father shouldn't be intangible. The fact that he had to dodge physical attacks pretty much proves that.
 
I think we can go ahead and apply, we have enough input on top of the main one arguing saying he left.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think we can go ahead and apply, we have enough input on top of the main one arguing saying he left.
Click to expand...
From what I read, I think Monarch and AKM's points make sense on Low-Godly being invalid.

So, there should be no Low-Godly Regenerationn; Low-High Regenerationn looks fine. I change make the accepted changes later, then.
 
How about Prince tho? Even if he said that he doesn't care anymore, applying this with all of these current situation are felts really uncomfortable
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
How about Prince tho? Even if he said that he doesn't care anymore, applying this with all of these current situation are felts really uncomfortable
Click to expand...
We already have a lot inputs on Prince's points; there is a lot of disagreement on Prince's points and his recent points; that said we do have some things that we agree on. I think we have about enough inputs, like Medeus said.
 
This also needs to be changed. Or discussed, if someone has anything else to say about this.
I thought there was at a least valid statement or other feats showing for Intangibility but I recently look up chapter 97 which has the first appearance for Father's evolved form and other chapters, but I could not found out found evidence. Objectively speacking, I think Intangibility should be changed to Body Control and Absorption (from scans like [1], [2], [3] and [4])

I have links of roughly all of Father's evolved form's appearance; nothing looks to show intangibilities, from chapter 97, 100, 103 and 104

Chapter 97

  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/97/13
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/97/14
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/97/15
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/97/16
Chapter 100

  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/100/39
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/100/40
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/100/41
Chapter 103

  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/7
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/8
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/7
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/15
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/16
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/103/18
Chapter 104

  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/104/12
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/104/13
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/104/23
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/104/24
  • http://www.**********.com/full-metal-alchemist/104/26
 
Yikes. Didn't think I'd see someone still using ********** nowadays.
 
Yeah, no Father not being intangible is a bunch of bullshit. This is going to be my final message before deactivating, as I truly no longer wish to associate any of you virtual pieces of trash. It's evident that the Staff members here hold power over what gets accepted and what doesn't, even if the staff in question is wrong. The all of you stan each other and ride on each other's backs, like a pack of disabled wild animals with god complex's, users believe that there's staff elitism for a good reason. Whatever you say is apparently law, and when they do get countered they simply bum-rush the thread by agreeing the each others arguements even if it's flawed.


To AKM, you are quite literally one of the densest and cockiest staff members on this wiki. You argue shit you don't know about constantly, weather that be Bleach ( regarding the mechanics of Reiatsu, a normal person who's actually read Bleach could tell you 114 reasons on why he's wrong. Despite being told how it works mutiple times by the most knowledgeable member of the series on the wiki. Presumably because Dragon Ball characters get passively stomped by Bleach characters. ) or the case here. Spineless coward who nobody would take seriously if it weren't for you being an Administrator. So kindly, get off your high ******* horse.


Monarch himself is unreliable, anyone who genuinely believes that the Nasuverse is 2-A is unreliable. If you were to present these types of bull shit arguments for 2-A Nasuverse on any other battle board such as Reddit or the OBD, they'd laugh at you. An Administrator who's willing to wank his favorite verses to literally infinity and beyond, but downplay others. Someone who believes that Gilgamesh is 2-A shouldn't be taken seriously. But wait, "but muh 2-D anime waifu's!!" at times like these it's when i truly wish i punch people in the head through the internet.


Elizhaa himself in a mumbling, incoherent failure of an Administrator. He can barely form any coherent sentences and has the tendency to be wrong on his points, as was his High-Mid argument. Again, a spineless coward who relies on staff members to ride his back, how someone so repugnant managed to become a staff member is beyond me. He's a ******* idiot and can barely speak English, and has no knowledge on the series. All this clown-head ass simp is doing is posting links to chapters without any context, hence him ******* up in the first place with High-Mid.


And i can already foresee the future replies that'll be made in accordance. The all of you are very predictable, you'll most likely either say I'm some random troll based off of pure speculation, act self righteous by making me seem like Hitler, etc. Anyway, I'll reply to Father's intangiblilty as my last comment here before deactivating.


Father's container is destroyed by Hohenheim which is his pshycial body that was modeled after Hohenheim. and later sheds his vessel showing his true form Father purposely shed his Container, aka his physical body. Why in the world would Father have two pshycial bodies? That makes zero sense, as his Container would rupture from the inside if it was physical. Father objectively didn't change his bodies shape to avoid Greed, he's in a the form of his body here Greed then sneaks up on Father and attacks him while Father isn't paying attention to him and then the attack fails and simply dissipates his body into darkness Greed's hand cleary went through Father, Father didn't change his shape as his body became dissipated by the attack. even May's attack simply gets absorbed into his intangible body and fires it back


Again this'll be my last comment, I've said what i needed to say, and the notion of Father not being intangible is a bunch of shit when feats and narratives supports it. But I'm also aware that no matter what i argue it'll be rejected by staff, because as we know they can't be wrong.
 
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