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I already did bruh.
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Fuji NEVER Cry [DMC Tier 1 Downgrades Yet Again]
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- devil may cry
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Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Why can't I ever notice that damn. Thanks for it then.
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I think Ultima made a good clarification regarding strength and sheer size for tier 2 and higher.
Is there proof that the universe is infinite, too?
I just remember Mundus : Casually created an infinitely expanding universe[42][43] moments before his fight against Dante.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I read, Mundus' world was in the demon world.
If it is the case and if the Demon world is still infinitely larger than Mundus’ universe (let’s say Low 2-C scaling to Human world having its own space-time, from universe standard) and/or Human world (is infinite proven infinite or scaled as infinite from Mundus’ world), I could see the Low 1-C being fine, from the world(s) being insignificant to it and from also “ray of light comparison infinite darkness” suggesting insignificance.
Is there proof that the universe is infinite, too?
I just remember Mundus : Casually created an infinitely expanding universe[42][43] moments before his fight against Dante.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I read, Mundus' world was in the demon world.
If it is the case and if the Demon world is still infinitely larger than Mundus’ universe (let’s say Low 2-C scaling to Human world having its own space-time, from universe standard) and/or Human world (is infinite proven infinite or scaled as infinite from Mundus’ world), I could see the Low 1-C being fine, from the world(s) being insignificant to it and from also “ray of light comparison infinite darkness” suggesting insignificance.
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Vietthai96
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Low 2-C structure itself is already 4D object and higher-infinity or uncountable infinite, you can't somehow have something that is countable infinite yet holding uncountable infinite at the same time that why the space contain 4d structure is default being 5d space/5th axis, what left is if said space/axis is large enough to be tiered and we have Demon Realm being infinite, let alone in this case Human World is just a ray of light compare to Demon Realm which is infinite, or Human World is insignificant compare to Demon Realm
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Georredannea15
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No. In order for a space to have a 5th axis, more than one space-time continuum must not intersect each other in any angular axis and direction of motion and must have volume 0 in this space.
This is because they are all embedded in the 5th axis. However, there is no such situation here, at least as far as I can see, there is no statement that explains the difference between the two universes in this way. It contains more like "being infinitely larger" in size term.
But how seriously such things like "size" should be taken is a question mark(according to new standarts.) So I would prefer to wait for comments from DT and Ultima for more clarifications on this thread.
And as far as I know, Ultima has already explained above that things like being "infinitely large" will not be enough, quoting from the new standards. But as I said, it would be best way to wait for him.
Ahhh, btw, let me not forget this comment by DT.
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Georredannea15
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I guess KH had some bullshits like the extra temporal axis. But if it became 5-D just because it was infinitely bigger than 4-D, then according to DT's and Ultima's comments, KH should be bombed Lmao.
Vietthai96
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Look, they need to be 5d space in order to hold 4d object on it, even if it is only 1, especially Demon Realm is a dimension of its own
Since people mentioning KH, KH is 6D because the Ocean Between is infinite large 5D space and it have it own time axis so 6D
Georredannea15
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No, this is not always assumed and what you say is wrong(Partially). As I quoted below, you need 2 things to be able to hold such universes with gaps between them
1- A larger, 4-dimensional space
2- A higher dimensional space (with a 5th axis or higher) (and in general, for this to be possible, there must be no intersection between universes on any angular axis. This means that universes are embedded in this space with 0 volume along the 5th axis)
KH verse is not the topic here, but if the cause of 5-D is to being infinitely larger than 4-D, 5-D should be bombed according to here and here
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,453
- Thread starter
- #90
There is not, no.
An "infinitely expanding" universe is not already infinite, it just means it will keep growing forever. Furthermore, nothing proves that the HW can be scaled to Mundus' universe, or that the DW is infinitely larger than it. So if the HW isn't infinite, then the DW wouldn't be low 1-C, right?
Also I want to clarify that Ultima quoting the HDE page means the DW wouldn't be low 1-C, as it clearly says that merely being infinitely larger than something is not enough to be considered higher-dimensional relative to it.
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if an infinite number of demons can fit inside the demon realm how is it not infinite
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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- Thread starter
- #92
I never said the Demon World isn't infinite (it is infinite, to be clear). The Human World doesn't have proof of being infinite.
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why do we need proof of hw being infinite, isn't it being Low 2-C enough?
even if thats not the case, hw being infinite was accepted here
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I think tge whole size argument is coming from a misunderstanding. If I'm not mistaken,
You need to prove that universes in the multiverse are infinitesimal To qualify said space for 5D.
Not prove a "space" is infinitely larger than the multiverse. Which is just 1x above baseline 2-A in a scaling chain.
Edit: I haven't read much of anything here yet.
You need to prove that universes in the multiverse are infinitesimal To qualify said space for 5D.
Not prove a "space" is infinitely larger than the multiverse. Which is just 1x above baseline 2-A in a scaling chain.
Edit: I haven't read much of anything here yet.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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- Thread starter
- #95
Okay, that was based on the idea that the HW was one half of the DW. Obviously, we no longer consider this to be true since the HW is infinitely small in comparison. So this is not relevant.
Those mean the same thing. You know that, right. You know that being infinitely larger than something means it's infinitesimal to you, right.
The size difference being infinite is not good enough. Can you please explain to me what the tiering system meant by defining QS as "more than countably infinite times greater in power or size", if NOT saying that a countably infinite difference isn't good enough?
Also like. if there was not a distinction between countably and uncountably infinite, as yall wanna imply because you keep pretending it doesn't exist, then high 1-B and low 1-A would not be different tiers. They'd be the exact same.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
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Btw infinitesimal≠ being infinitely larger. Both are different
As far as I know there is only infinitely larger here, but if there is an infinitesimal statement as well, that might be fine.
Vietthai96
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Too busy to keep up but
Infinite contain multiple definitions in itself, from countable infinite to uncountable infinite to higher level of infinity, all of them are infinity, what different betweem them is just the size. Most fiction isn't go that deep and complex into that territory, as all of them can just be refered as infinity, so i find this kind of argument is extremely nitpicky, it is every hard to find fiction verse that is extremely specific about level of infinity unless we talking about verse that solely about mathematic, or authors who are aware of tiering system. Same with the infinitesimal
Vietthai96
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It isn't really matter that Human World is infinite or not, because Low 2-C structure is an uncountable infinite by itself, and it is just a ray of light compare to an infinitely larger Demon Realm
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apparently there is no proof of human world being infinite
but is human world being Low 2-C enough to qualify??
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this.
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Uncountable infinite for the 3D. By default even with the size of observable universe, if it mention time then it is low 2C. Yeah every universe in a fiction is low 2C even if it not in infinite size
Serlock_Holmes
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Proof of the HW being infinite? They were originally part of a single dimension. Meaning HW and DW is just parts of the whole.
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he's asking if the hw is infinite or not...he's not saying "hw is infinite"
even if its not infinite, isn't hw being low 2-C enough??
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Mad's 6th comment in this thread
"1. If the demon world drives humans insane, and is also beyond their comprehension, then it stands to reason that those two are related (things that drive humans insane on sight could easily be described as beyond their understanding). Certainly more plausible than jumping right to higher dimensions.
2. Something being beyond human understanding does not make it tier 1. No standard can vouch for this."
Serlock_Holmes
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Why does it matter when DW is exactly the same thing but bigger? There is no qualitative superiority. They are similar dimensions but one is just bigger. I have yet to understand if that's a basis for low 1-C but from what I have understood it's not.
Also here is the wiki page for the human world: https://devilmaycry.fandom.com/wiki/Human_World
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ah ok
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why did you randomly send a fandom page wiki of the human world
Serlock_Holmes
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For a little bit of story to the creation of the human world. That they were one dimension till they were split apart then there was another attempt to reconnect them which sparda stopped and sealed them even better leaving only some ways to go from one to the other.
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yeah they were 1 dimension at first but now they're separate
idk how this is relevant
Serlock_Holmes
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In that there is no superiority between them. They are literally one place. Just that they have weaker inhabitants in one place.
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we assume the lesser unless there are heavy implications that it isn't
it doesn't need to specifically say its a higher level of infinity etc. if they say the difference is infinite then proceed to show hints of it implying a higher level of infinity rather than the commonly used countable ones. then that's when its meaning changes if the verse cannot be too direct with its since those are technically math jargon. but if they leave it vague we have no reason to assume they refer to the heavily jargoned one.
As ultima and Elizha pointed out. they have implications of insignificance and such enough to assume a higher. so to the premise of the downgrade
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did you just say they're one place
if the demon world is consuming the human dimension how tf are they still the same place
they used to be 1 place but not anymore
Demons naturally exist in a dimension with a different flow of time[16], and with a set of laws different from that of the human world[17].Demons don't need to follow the laws that exist upon reality, those being from the demon world or the human world.[18].
you're calling them the same place even after all this?? good lord
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Serlock_Holmes
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Where did you even take the consuming from? The demons just wanted to take the land for themselves and kill humanity.
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literally here
also read this
Demons naturally exist in a dimension with a different flow of time[16], and with a set of laws different from that of the human world[17].Demons don't need to follow the laws that exist upon reality, those being from the demon world or the human world.[18].
in fact the 2 realms are literally separated by a dimensional wall that prevents demons from dimensional travel
so it makes no sense for them to be the same place like you claim it to be
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Serlock_Holmes
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Well here it's pretty evident that they are talking about killing the humans and just retaking the land. The other statement is much more ambiguous.
Don't understand your point with this info. Yes the dimensions are sealed against each other so that passage is hard from one to the other. They were sealed by Sparda.
So the difference is that some areas have wonky time differences and that trees grow below the ground?
No idea what's that supposed to mean and why laws refers to some grand universal truth and not that the fact that the being is stronger than anything naturally occuring in the HW which is very much true.
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fair
if the demon world and the human world are separated by a dimensional wall, why are you saying that they're the same place...
i love how you're trying to reduce hardcore evidence with these questions
if the demon world has different laws from the human world how can they possible be the same place?? wtf??
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Sorry but I have no interest in Tier 1/Higher Dimensional nonsense of any kind, the comments on this thread are an example as to why I can't stand our standards or make heads or tails of them. I just go out of the hospital yesterday and I'm not feeling up for this discussion so I'm going to leave it for others to handle.
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