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Four Knights of the Apocalypse/Nanatsu no Taizai Main Discussion Thread

Meli_Tempest said:
But actually, there is a quite obvious problem, actually two:

1- pages such as Lady of the Lake do not have an updated version of the combo of the sins, they still maintain the previous one that marks Multi-Continent levels.

2- The updates to the EOS sins, will significantly affect the combo calculation, as currently, we have them at less than half of the new value.

I propose to pull the thread with the changes to the sins in EOS, then make a new thread with the new combo calculation and this will also have the updates to TMF/DK Meli, since it scales close to this combo, and the 4KOTA updates, which will be significantly affected by this.

Feedback?
Click to expand...
Do what you think is best
 
speedster352 said:
I get what your saying but Excalibur make Arthur exponentially stronger so with Excalibur he solidly 5a and without it he is possibly 5a but I agree with a slight upgrade for Meliodas and Lancelot.
Click to expand...
I disagree, Excalibur was made by the Lady of the Lake and served only as a key to unleash Chaos. It's not like Arthur depended on it to be 5-A.

Arthur's current sword is made by Chaos himself, if it was so inferior to Excalibur he wouldn't go to Liones with it
 
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Demon_Lord18 said:
Meliodas was in Liones, so there was no reason to go with a sword far inferior to Excalibur
Click to expand...
His main goal was to test them, he definitely accounted for Meliodas still being there and decided to still go with his other sword, Excalibur is being saved for something big and is definitely the stronger weapon
 
Majinere566 said:
His main goal was to test them, he definitely accounted for Meliodas still being there and decided to still go with his other sword, Excalibur is being saved for something big and is definitely the stronger weapon
Click to expand...
I'm not saying Excalibur isn't superior, I'm saying the weapon Arthur used isn't that inferior.

Yes, apparently he is with her when he invades Liones to face the sins
 
Meli_Tempest said:
I see, I'll leave it for later then.

I'm putting everything on this sandbox, you can take a look, I'll finish everything in a few hours. If you have a comment, or do not agree with something we can discuss it before I finish.

vsbattles.fandom.com

MeliodasScale

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Scaling Meliodas to 1.89 Zettatons would create too many inconsistencies, it's better to scale him to at least 378 Exatons
 
I have finished

What do you think? Anything you would like to comment on before publishing it? And could you do me a favor and check the gramatic? I am particularly bad with English

vsbattles.fandom.com

MeliodasScale

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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Meli_Tempest said:
I have finished

What do you think? Anything you would like to comment on before publishing it? And could you do me a favor and check the dramatics? I am particularly bad with English

vsbattles.fandom.com

MeliodasScale

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Sounds good, but maybe this Supreme Deity thing isn't a PIS? After receiving magic from SD, Dahlia could resist Zeldris' attack amplified by 10x

Maybe this should just scale to the durability of the Supreme Deity and Dahlia?

Edit: We already accept that your barrier is 10x more durable than it
 
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Demon_Lord18 said:
Sounds good, but maybe this Supreme Deity thing isn't a PIS? After receiving magic from SD, Dahlia could resist Zeldris' attack amplified by 10x

Maybe this should just scale to the durability of the Supreme Deity and Dahlia?

Edit: We already accept that your barrier is 10x more durable than it
Click to expand...
Ah? If so, then I can delete it.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Ah? If so, then I can delete it.
Click to expand...
Without the barrier, its durability should already be 756 Exatons

Moon level (Tanked her own Full Countered attack, which was going to finish off the Sins, including King and Ban), Higher with Barriers (Even with a destroyer magic-imbued weapon, Meliodas required Zeldris' assistance to break her barrier)
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Can you explain?
Click to expand...
Sure

In addition to this, as evidence of support:

Meliodas in his base state was not afraid to confront Ultimate Escanor, and warned him that if he wanted to fight alone, to force him off if he could. Which supports the idea that Meliodas in his base state is more powerful than the rest of the sins.
Click to expand...

This is just a massive reach. Nowhere is it implied that Meliodas could take on The One Ultimate in base. It was a simple confrontation between allies, not only that it’s massively illogical to assume he can take on an entity that bulled the Prime Demon King, the same demon King that low diffed Base Meliodas.

  • Meliodas had trouble fighting Demon King Zeldris in a weaker phase, his base should not scale to the power of his form at 100%.
This is not entirely true, we are told repeatedly throughout the fight that both Meliodas and the rest of the sins are holding back, as their goal is to free Zeldris, not kill him.
Click to expand...
Meliodas had trouble fighting him in a stronger face. He instantly needed to go to Demon Mark Mode in order to actually contend with The Demon King( he got overpowered right after and dealing no damage at all). So how would a stronger version of Meliodas whilst holding back perform worse than base Meliodas while holding back? This counter argument made zero sense.

Actually I had to re-read this argument to grasp what you’re trying to say. How is a counter point you are addressing even remotely relevant to what is actually needed? You’ve gone on a tangent on how he struggled with 2nd Form DK in base to circle it all back to how “Meliodas implies he can beat The sins in base “ when the relevant scaling starts with the PDK?

Full King Wings:

Tier: At least 5-C

Attack Power:

At least Moon Tier+ (Superior to The One Escanor, was able to consistently damage and engage 100% of Demon King Zeldris.

Post-Purgatory Ban

Tier: At least 5-C

Attack Power:

At least Luna Level+ (Superior to The One Escanor, was able to consistently engage and damage 100% of Demon King Zeldris).
Click to expand...
No. First of all let me address a common misconception, The One Ultimate is an extension of the Regular The One. As stated by king “How is he able to maintain the One past one minute?”

Not only that but as stated by The Demon King himself, “
I commend you. I never knew there was a human who could hold his own as an equal against me...” Whilst just recently fought Ban. A human. And the fact that he praises Escanor as an Equal immediately puts him above the rest of the sins including Demon Mark Meliodas
 
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Majinere566 said:
Sure

In addition to this, as evidence of support:



This is just a massive reach. Nowhere is it implied that Meliodas could take on The One Ultimate in base. It was a simple confrontation between allies, not only that it’s massively illogical to assume he can take on an entity that bulled the Prime Demon King, the same demon King that low diffed Base Meliodas.
Click to expand...
Ok, I think there was a misunderstanding here, I'll rephrase that: For Meliodas at base to have such an attitude against The One Ultimate it is not possible for the difference between the two to be more than x4.

I'm not saying that Meliodas on base sweeps with Sins at this point, (that's blatantly obvious from looking at the scale conclusions), it simply supports the idea that Meliodas on base is pretty close to the level of the rest of Sins.
 
Majinere566 said:
No. First of all let me address a common misconception, The One Ultimate is an extension of the Regular The One. As stated by king “How is he able to maintain the One past one minute?”

Not only that but as stated by The Demon King himself, “
I commend you. I never knew there was a human who could hold his own as an equal against me...” Whilst just recently fought Ban. A human. And the fact that he praises Escanor as an Equal immediately puts him above the rest of the sins including Demon Mark Meliodas
Click to expand...
This is simply blatantly false, and contradicts both history and what we currently accept in the wiki.

To begin with, The One in his base state, fought as equals with the Demon King, however when he entered the Ultimate state, he humiliated and stomped him as if he were nothing.

Secondly, Nakaba himself recognizes it as a stronger state, since he mentions that "With the Ultimate state Escanor is stronger" meaning that only by burning his life Escanor overcomes Ban and King, and not with the regular state.

Third, this comes directly from his profile:

higher as The One (Tradedblows with and harmed Full Power Demon King Zeldris[20]), even higher as The One Ultimate (Overpowered Full Power Demon King Zeldris[21])
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Ok, I think there was a misunderstanding here, I'll rephrase that: For Meliodas at base to have such an attitude against The One Ultimate it is not possible for the difference between the two to be more than x4.

I'm not saying that Meliodas on base sweeps with Sins at this point, (that's blatantly obvious from looking at the scale conclusions), it simply supports the idea that Meliodas on base is pretty close to the level of the rest of Sins.
Click to expand...
Are you really thinking of scaling Meliodas Base above 100%DK?
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
Are you really thinking of scaling Meliodas Base above 100%DK?
Click to expand...
It should be somewhere between greater and less than 100%, if we are talking about just his fight, it would probably be somewhere below, but when considering the x10 between 4 of the feat in CBL it seems greater.

I think it might be fair to assume that his power has been increasing? Or else simple inconsistency on Nakaba's part.
 
I want to gather everyone's arguments here, so tell me:

Where do you think Ban, King, and Meliodas EOS scale to?

Where do you think it is most consistent?

I think if we consider everything we can come up with something that makes sense.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
It should be somewhere between greater and less than 100%, if we are talking about just his fight, it would probably be somewhere below, but when considering the x10 between 4 of the feat in CBL it seems greater.

I think it might be fair to assume that his power has been increasing? Or else simple inconsistency on Nakaba's part.
Click to expand...
Given meliodas's performance against 50% SD during CBL AM meliodas is weaker than or comparable to 50% DK.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Apparently that is due to an extremely high barrier and durability, as DemonLord commented above.
Click to expand...
Her barrier was likely designed to defend against destroyer buffed weapons from the DK/someone equal to her in power. If meliodas is as strong as you are suggesting SD's barrier would have to be like 60-120X her normal durability.

Inconsistent how?
 
Delta3000 said:
Her barrier was likely designed to defend against destroyer buffed weapons from the DK/someone equal to her in power. If meliodas is as strong as you are suggesting SD's barrier would have to be like 60-120X her normal durability.

Inconsistent how?
Click to expand...
That is nothing more than speculation, the supreme deity seems to simply have a durability far greater than its own attack potency.

This is very obvious:

So, despite holding back and not fighting efficiently, Meliodas' second mark has no problem keeping up, attacking and taking blows from his father's latest form, indicating considerable superiority.

That is to say that while the Demon King had the constant magical reserves of the lake, fought with murderous intent and had his full strength, Meliodas had no problem keeping up, and also only taking minor damage from his attacks at full strength.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
This is simply blatantly false, and contradicts both history and what we currently accept in the wiki.

To begin with, The One in his base state, fought as equals with the Demon King, however when he entered the Ultimate state, he humiliated and stomped him as if he were nothing.

Secondly, Nakaba himself recognizes it as a stronger state, since he mentions that "With the Ultimate state Escanor is stronger" meaning that only by burning his life Escanor overcomes Ban and King, and not with the regular state.

Third, this comes directly from his profile:

higher as The One (Tradedblows with and harmed Full Power Demon King Zeldris[20]), even higher as The One Ultimate (Overpowered Full Power Demon King Zeldris[21])
Click to expand...
Do you know what is the definition of an extension? An extension by definition is

a part that is added to something to enlarge or prolong it; a continuation.
Click to expand...
How does this relate to the The One and The One Ultimate?

1. As stated prior it’s literally him maintaining the One past it’s standard 1 minute.

2. Instead of The One’s Power coming from Sunshine he’s sacrificing his Life Force instead to maintain The One, which fits the definition of what extension means.



Meli_Tempest said:
To begin with, The One in his base state, fought as equals with the Demon King, however when he entered the Ultimate state, he humiliated and stomped him as if he were nothing.
Click to expand...
The only reason why The Ultimate One was able to land multiple hits at once was due to the fact that the Demon King was stuck in him(pause) as opposed to going Blow for Blow with the regular One whilst maintaining similar levels of damage inflicted on the Demon King
 
Majinere566 said:
Do you know what is the definition of an extension? An extension by definition is


How does this relate to the The One and The One Ultimate?

1. As stated prior it’s literally him maintaining the One past it’s standard 1 minute.

2. Instead of The One’s Power coming from Sunshine he’s sacrificing his Life Force instead to maintain The One, which fits the definition of what extension means.




The only reason why The Ultimate One was able to land multiple hits at once was due to the fact that the Demon King was stuck in him(pause) as opposed to going Blow for Blow with the regular One whilst maintaining similar levels of damage inflicted on the Demon King
Click to expand...
Sure... we consider equal the form that exchanged blows and bled with the Demon King's blows and to the form that barely flinched from them.

We consider equal the form that equaled him in brute strength and the one that surpassed him to the point of trapping his arm and becoming impotent.

This borders on the absurd, and why are you giving me dictionary definitions? What does The One Ultimate being a time extension of The One have to do with what I'm saying? Does that make my argument incompatible? It doesn't support yours much either, being called an extension of time just means that, an extension of time and is not related to increasing or decreasing power directly.

You can have power increase or decrease by extending the time of a technique by some sacrifice, it's quite common in fiction, you don't have an argument here to begin with.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Sure... we consider equal the form that exchanged blows and bled with the Demon King's blows and to the form that barely flinched from them.
Click to expand...
You know there’s a difference of power for the demon king when he’s reluctantly trying to set himself free and doesn’t even get a full swing of a punch and resorting to half swings barrages vs Actually full swinging on Escanor right?

I'm not even saying they should be considered equal levels of power as it’s clearly not, I was setting up a point about how The One Ultimate is an extension of The One incase you decided to bring up Nakaba’s interview

Meli_Tempest said:
This borders on the absurd, and why are you giving me dictionary definitions? What does The One Ultimate being a time extension of The One have to do with what I'm saying? Does that make my argument incompatible? It doesn't support yours much either, being called an extension of time just means that, an extension of time and is not related to increasing or decreasing power directly
Click to expand...
As you said here
Meli_Tempest said:
This is simply blatantly false, and contradicts both history and what we currently accept in the wiki.

To begin with, The One in his base state, fought as equals with the Demon King, however when he entered the Ultimate state, he humiliated and stomped him as if he were nothing.
Click to expand...
As response to my extension point, when you assumed my argument meant that I was insinuating that they are equal levels of power.
 
Majinere566 said:
I'm not even saying they should be considered equal levels of power as it’s clearly not, I was setting up a point about how The One Ultimate is an extension of The One incase you decided to bring up Nakaba’s interview
Click to expand...
The One Ultimate has a different name, Nakaba refers to this specific form state in the interview, there is no reason to think that they are weaker than the normal The One state since it is implied that they are only weaker than that specific form of Escanor.
Majinere566 said:
As you said here

As response to my extension point, when you assumed my argument meant that I was insinuating that they are equal levels of power.
Click to expand...
Then why the hell... you know what, forget it. It doesn't matter.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
The One Ultimate has a different name, Nakaba refers to this specific form state in the interview, there is no reason to think that they are weaker than the normal The One state since it is implied that they are only weaker than that specific form of Escanor.
Click to expand...
No one implied this by the way.
Meli_Tempest said:
Then why the hell... you know what, forget it. It doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Because saying it’s blatantly false is you being blatantly false
 
Majinere566 said:
No one implied this by the way.
Click to expand...
“By the way, at this point, except for Meliodas, who is the strongest of the [Seven Deadly Sins]?

In his 'Ultimate' form, it's Escanor. If not in 'Ultimate', Ban is the strongest. The next would be the awakened King”
That's being pretty specific.
 
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