• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fixin' up Norse Kratos' profile

Status
Not open for further replies.
@Andika_CL_atmadja
Logically, it would make no sense for GoW 4 Kratos to be above his GoW 3 counterpart in any way. Sure they are comparable, they are the same person, but there are far too many factors at play here.
1: Kratos states that he was more muscular when he fought Zeus.
2: The Comic Con 2018 panel describing Kratos states that he is highly restraining himself and that, despite still being monstrously skilled and powerful, he is not as powerful as he was back when he soloed the Greek Pantheon.
3: Cory Barlog passingly stated on an interview that Kratos's physical capabilities have dulled in his old age, which is why he can't jump in the gameplay. While he said this in a relatively tongue-in-cheek manner, it does fit in with other, more serious statements
4: The Blades of Chaos are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir.

While these sum it up, there are also other things to consider as well.
-https://youtu.be/DNik2-yUhjU?t=571
Cory during the developer walkthrough went out of his way to explain that kratos during 4 is almost a shadow of his former self, with him not fighting in a very long time, "He hasn't had a fight like this in a long time, you get the sense that he's older, and that he's kinda shaking off the cobwebs". The first baldur fight really wore him out. He is extremely rusty during the events of 4, he hasn't fought anybody near his level in centuries. While towards the end the rust was shaken off, at most he'd be back to being equal to his base self.
-There is also the logical conclusion that him losing all of his weapons, abilities, hax, ect. From the previous installments would put him at a lower level in terms of versatility at the very least, with him losing things like the Blade of Olympus, and the Power of Hope being detrimental loses in his overall scaling.
-


Finally, there are the WoG's from bruno, which the first one is him saying Kratos didn't get "weaker", nor did he get stronger. There is no old/new kratos. He is Kratos, same old guy, just this time around he's wiser, he has different motives, he's trying to turn over a new leaf.
The second WoG is him outright stating baldur is nowhere near Zeus, which would make sense with everything said above. Kratos went on to kill 3 Gods in this game, 2 of which were renowned throughout the norse pantheon for their strength, and one who was the son of Odin and Freya, while being rusty and holding back. It's nonsensical to believe that the same kratos who went all out against Zeus and barely beat him at the end of 3, then got one shotted by him, would be holding back while rusty against a superior foe.
End of GoW 4 Kratos is = Base GoW 3 at the end before he faced Zeus in terms of overall power. The difference comes from things like the BoO and the PoH, and the plethora of hax he had at his disposal that he no longer has in 4.
 
Finally, there are the WoG's from bruno, which the first one is him saying Kratos didn't get "weaker", nor did he get stronger. There is no old/new kratos. He is Kratos, same old guy, just this time around he's wiser, he has different motives, he's trying to turn over a new leaf.
The second WoG is him outright stating baldur is nowhere near Zeus, which would make sense with everything said above. Kratos went on to kill 3 Gods in this game, 2 of which were renowned throughout the norse pantheon for their strength, and one who was the son of Odin and Freya, while being rusty and holding back. It's nonsensical to believe that the same kratos who went all out against Zeus and barely beat him at the end of 3, then got one shotted by him, would be holding back while rusty against a superior foe.
End of GoW 4 Kratos is = Base GoW 3 at the end before he faced Zeus in terms of overall power. The difference comes from things like the BoO and the PoH, and the plethora of hax he had at his disposal that he no longer has in 4.
I asked Bruno this question on twitter recently, he said GoW 4 Kratos was stronger, so that's pretty contradictory to Baldur being far below Zeus, I also believe there was a statement in the novel where Kratos thinks that Baldur's power is unlike anything he's faced before.
 
I asked Bruno this question on twitter recently, he said GoW 4 Kratos was stronger, so that's pretty contradictory to Baldur being far below Zeus, I also believe there was a statement in the novel where Kratos thinks that Baldur's power is unlike anything he's faced before.
There's also this too.

Idk where you asked him about GoW4 being>GoW3, but he's already stated before they are the exact same person and equal in power, so he'd be contradicting himself if he ever said it anyway.

Anyway, author statements are secondary evidence, and the actual canon seems to go out of its way to portray end of God of War 3 as superior; and this is still discounting Power of Hope Kratos, who is so far yet the most powerful thing the God of War franchise has showcased, with very few possible exceptions.
As for the novel statement, the statement is written on the perspective of Kratos's first major fight against someone on his level in centuries. Kratos is quite clearly exaggerating Baldur's power due to his own strength having atrophied. Just glance at the context. The novel states this shortly after their first clash, the very first time Kratos had to tap into his godly strength for literal centuries. We're repeatedly told that Kratos slacking off has led to him becoming far rustier. This made his battle with Baldur that much more difficult, even to the point he is close to passing out by the end of it (which cory even follows up on in the developer interview I posted above), much like someone returning to the gym for the first time in years. Allied with Baldur's magical invulnerability making him one heck of a first impression for this pantheon's gods, it is obvious that he misjudged his power. He handles him a lot better by their next encounter. The idea that Baldur is stronger than literally any power Kratos had encountered is also nonsensical, considering Baldur is unarguably not more powerful than Fear Zeus.

The only thing actually valid from the new pantheon in terms of being above the greek one is the odin statement in the novel. Which actually makes sense considering he's the God-King of the entire pantheon.
 
it's not really clear in my opinion.

here is old thread suggesting GoW 3 kratos is stronger than GoW norse kratos : https://vsbattles.com/threads/god-of-war-greek-pantheon-revisions.41921/
  • 1: Kratos states that he was more muscular when he fought Zeus.
  • 2: The Comic Con 2018 panel describing Kratos states that he is highly restraining himself and that, despite still being monstrously skilled and powerful, he is not as powerful as he was back when he soloed the Greek Pantheon.
  • 3: Cory Barlog passingly stated on an interview that Kratos's physical capabilities have dulled in his old age, which is why he can't jump in the gameplay. While he said this in a relatively tongue-in-cheek manner, it does fit in with other, more serious statements
  • 4: The Blades of Chaos are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir.
Cory Barlog also said that Norse Kratos would win against his GoW3 self, though.
 
4: The Blades of Chaos are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir.
I mean, even if it was the case Baldur was still on equal foot with GoW4 Kratos, its not like the latter could just oneshot him, Immortality or not.

So while i do agree that Power of Hope Kratos is at his strongest, GoW4 Kratos should still be comparable (or even a bit stronger than) GoW3 Kratos.
 
Isn't that when Death of the Author kick in? Cuz he is pretty much contradicting everything else
That would depend on how much he's contradicting, I guess. If I remember correctly, he also said that Kratos still has a piece of the Power of Hope inside him during the fourth game.

There's also the whole thing with the World Tree/Yggdrasil although I don't know how you guys take that. All we know is that the World Serpent and Thor clashing during Ragnarok destroyed the Tree.

I'm just hear to see how this discussion pans out so don't mind me too much. I'll just give my input here and there.
 
I mean, even if it was the case Baldur was still on equal foot with GoW4 Kratos, its not like the latter could just oneshot him, Immortality or not.

So while i do agree that Power of Hope Kratos is at his strongest, GoW4 Kratos should still be comparable (or even a bit stronger than) GoW3 Kratos.
Not being able to one shot baldur with the blades of chaos is irrelevant, because that's not the point. The blades of chaos, which isn't even the most powerful weapon in the greek realms, is handily above on of the, if not the most lethal weapon we've seen in the norse pantheon so far, besides surtur's blade. The blades being more powerful than mjolnir/leviathan is meant to draw a direct comparison between the pantheons themselves, cause while the blades of chaos are extremely powerful, it's still not as powerful as the Blade of Olympus or the Power of Hope. The blades of chaos were never powerful enough to allow kratos to one shot anybody in the greek pantheon either.
There's also the whole thing with the World Tree/Yggdrasil although I don't know how you guys take that. All we know is that the World Serpent and Thor clashing during Ragnarok destroyed the Tree.
Yes, definitely an insane feat for sure. If you were taking the route of their feats are above the greek pantheons, the greek pantheon is handicapped by the very nature of their cosmology. You can't say "The olympians are capable of busting 9 universes" they can't have feats on that level, they can only have powerscaling.
There's also the quote from mimir in-game where he states the aesir are as powerful a force as he'd come across, which is extremely relevant considering he isn't from the norse pantheon.
 
Isn't that when Death of the Author kick in? Cuz he is pretty much contradicting everything else
I feel like that statement was always from the PoV of a later date, not during the events of GoW 4 but after. Cory's WoG is legit enough, but he contradicts himself in the developer interview I posted above. So kratos in Gow 4 being "stronger" in any way beyond simply being the same person and on the same level as he once was (disregarding PoH) simply doesn't add up whatsoever.
 
Can someone tell the reasoning as to why the card game was accepted as canon and the reasoning as to why the statement was interpreted as physical timelines rather than simply them using the well to see the future possibilities?
 
Seems to be accepted by the staff, so would this warrant an upgrade for God of War as well?
Potential....yes....
Since each timeline in Norse Pantheon contains 9 realms..each being a space-time.
Basically same as DBS....
But I don't think anyone would scale since no one affects the entirety of timeline as far as I know.
 
Sorry for two posts, adding links on mobile seems to automatically post it for some reason, regardless, isn't the physical form of Yggdrasil already accepted to have an innumerable amount of timelines? The timelines should logically contain all of the 9 realms. That would upgrade the physical form to Low 1-C if I'm not mistaken and shouldn't shaking a Low 1-C construct warrant higher ratings than simply Low Multiversal?
 
Sorry for two posts, adding links on mobile seems to automatically post it for some reason, regardless, isn't the physical form of Yggdrasil already accepted to have an innumerable amount of timelines? The timelines should logically contain all of the 9 realms. That would upgrade the physical form to Low 1-C if I'm not mistaken and shouldn't shaking a Low 1-C construct warrant higher ratings than simply Low Multiversal?
Yeah...mobiles are kinda un-user friendly to operate VsBW.

Yes that would make Phyiscal Yggdrasil not only 5D but beyond baseline 5D...like 2B lvls of 5D.

If you are referring to Thor and Jormundgar splintering the Phyiscal Ygg...then it was already 2B...and it was considered an outlier.
Now it will be even more so....

As for shaking the realms....well they only shook the realms not the timeline iirc...so still Low Multi.
 
Even if it doesn't scale to anyone despite the feat, it would still upgrade Yggdrasil at least.
 

Yeah...the Ygg stuff and Surtr stuff should be moved to upper info section..its still important part of his narrative and story.....but yeah it shouldn't be in his AP justification.

Shaking 9 Realms is enough justication...
 
@Andika_CL_atmadja
Logically, it would make no sense for GoW 4 Kratos to be above his GoW 3 counterpart in any way. Sure they are comparable, they are the same person, but there are far too many factors at play here.

2: The Comic Con 2018 panel describing Kratos states that he is highly restraining himself and that, despite still being monstrously skilled and powerful, he is not as powerful as he was back when he soloed the Greek Pantheon.
3: Cory Barlog passingly stated on an interview that Kratos's physical capabilities have dulled in his old age, which is why he can't jump in the gameplay. While he said this in a relatively tongue-in-cheek manner, it does fit in with other, more serious statements
4: The Blades of Chaos are stated to be much more powerful than the Leviathan Axe and Mjolnir.

While these sum it up, there are also other things to consider as well.
-https://youtu.be/DNik2-yUhjU?t=571
Cory during the developer walkthrough went out of his way to explain that kratos during 4 is almost a shadow of his former self, with him not fighting in a very long time, "He hasn't had a fight like this in a long time, you get the sense that he's older, and that he's kinda shaking off the cobwebs". The first baldur fight really wore him out. He is extremely rusty during the events of 4, he hasn't fought anybody near his level in centuries. While towards the end the rust was shaken off, at most he'd be back to being equal to his base self.
-There is also the logical conclusion that him losing all of his weapons, abilities, hax, ect. From the previous installments would put him at a lower level in terms of versatility at the very least, with him losing things like the Blade of Olympus, and the Power of Hope being detrimental loses in his overall scaling.
-


Finally, there are the WoG's from bruno, which the first one is him saying Kratos didn't get "weaker", nor did he get stronger. There is no old/new kratos. He is Kratos, same old guy, just this time around he's wiser, he has different motives, he's trying to turn over a new leaf.
The second WoG is him outright stating baldur is nowhere near Zeus, which would make sense with everything said above. Kratos went on to kill 3 Gods in this game, 2 of which were renowned throughout the norse pantheon for their strength, and one who was the son of Odin and Freya, while being rusty and holding back. It's nonsensical to believe that the same kratos who went all out against Zeus and barely beat him at the end of 3, then got one shotted by him, would be holding back while rusty against a superior foe.
End of GoW 4 Kratos is = Base GoW 3 at the end before he faced Zeus in terms of overall power. The difference comes from things like the BoO and the PoH, and the plethora of hax he had at his disposal that he no longer has in 4.

so end GoW 4 Kratos = base GoW 3 (without Boo and PoH) Yeah i am agree with this...
 
Can someone tell the reasoning as to why the card game was accepted as canon and the reasoning as to why the statement was interpreted as physical timelines rather than simply them using the well to see the future possibilities?
well it already interpreted by card game as physical timelines...
 
Sorry for two posts, adding links on mobile seems to automatically post it for some reason, regardless, isn't the physical form of Yggdrasil already accepted to have an innumerable amount of timelines? The timelines should logically contain all of the 9 realms. That would upgrade the physical form to Low 1-C if I'm not mistaken and shouldn't shaking a Low 1-C construct warrant higher ratings than simply Low Multiversal?
well there are also the fact that a branch of yggdrasil stretch to infinity. I don't know if this can be interpreted that yggdrasil has infinite number of branches.
 
8c4cb013-91de-4a20-9a67-f2391a4c25a5


according to this interview it seem Cory barlog stated odin has some sort of omnipresent force....
 
Clearly he's not "omnipresent" by definition considering he didn't know Kratos was in the pantheon until the spell was broken, and he's been trying to get to Jotenheim this entire time, at least via the multiple times the game tells us this. Most likely referring to his area of influence, like with his ravens and stuff. He is "everywhere" you look, always watching in that sense.
 
Clearly he's not "omnipresent" by definition considering he didn't know Kratos was in the pantheon until the spell was broken, and he's been trying to get to Jotenheim this entire time, at least via the multiple times the game tells us this. Most likely referring to his area of influence, like with his ravens and stuff. He is "everywhere" you look, always watching in that sense.
well according to full interview it actually about Odin locked the realms.
 
To be honest, the thing Kratos reacts to seems to be light from the explosion and not the explosion itself, I say this because the "explosion" which I believe to be light does zero physical damage to anything meanwhile the burst of green energy aka the real explosion does real damage, other than that the actual explosion makes another sound after the one produced by her emitting the light, as far as I know, explosions don't make sounds twice. There is also the fact that the explosion happens a decent while after the light has already left the building.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top