Fire Force to Soul Eater - Death and Asura

[Cyberblader90]

if we are all agreed, ill make one final small post for last bit of support:

It is noted Death/ Shinigami has "true power" and that the madness wavelength of beings like him and Asura are on the level of God.

 

[Phantom_Falcon]

Agree with the CRT, even if Soul Eater being this strong feels...weird lol

 

[Arkenis]

Agree with the CRT, even if Soul Eater being this strong feels...weird lol

Just feels weird cause of how poorly the verse was portrayed for years.

 

[Maitreya12]

Just feels weird cause of how poorly the verse was portrayed for years.

It’s also because Fire Force went ahead and went nutty with the scaling.

 

[Chrome]

I think when shinra called death an absolute being it was only in relation to his position as god on earth which would be more consistent with soul eater and the fact he couldn’t snatch arthurs power’s because he wasn’t on earth.

 

[Damage3245]

I think when shinra called death an absolute being it was only in relation to his position as god on earth which would be more consistent with soul eater and the fact he couldn’t snatch arthurs power’s because he wasn’t on earth.

Yeah.

I am pretty wary about using titles like "GOD" and "Absolute Being" to rate Death as being > Haumea & the Evangelist.

I don't doubt that Death is pretty powerful, but to label him as Universal in statistics despite the lack of support for it in Soul Eater? At least for a full solid rating the support doesn't look very soid.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll say again if the full scaling of death isn't accepted we can at least say he, excalibur, and kishin are all 5-B scaling from other 5-B characters

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah.

I am pretty wary about using titles like "GOD" and "Absolute Being" to rate Death as being > Haumea & the Evangelist.

I don't doubt that Death is pretty powerful, but to label him as Universal in statistics despite the lack of support for it in Soul Eater? At least for a full solid rating the support doesn't look very soid.

I would probably prefer a “likely” rating as opposed to a full solid rating tbh lol.

 

[Arkenis]

I don't doubt that Death is pretty powerful, but to label him as Universal in statistics despite the lack of support for it in Soul Eater? At least for a full solid rating the support doesn't look very soid.

Pretty sure we should ignore any tiering for right now. Besides the tier he could be, everything is generally accurate for how the verse seems to portray their "god" status characters.

Note this CRT isn't meant to give any definite tier (as fire force is in the middle of a potential revision)

In months the tiers could be completely different after all.

 

[ObberGobb]

I strongly agree with scaling Death to Shinrabanshoman

 

[Cyberblader90]

I think when shinra called death an absolute being it was only in relation to his position as god on earth which would be more consistent with soul eater and the fact he couldn’t snatch arthurs power’s because he wasn’t on earth.

nothing specifies this. Lack of range to arthur doesnt limit his power. Haumea shows the exact same level of range to manipulate souls, as does shinra.

 

[Arkenis]

nothing specifies this. Lack of range to arthur doesnt limit his power. Haumea shows the exact same level of range to manipulate souls, as does shinra.

Yeah lol, we saw Benimaru's range easily be beyond planetary and he's much weaker overall than Shinra.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Yeah.

I am pretty wary about using titles like "GOD" and "Absolute Being" to rate Death as being > Haumea & the Evangelist.

I don't doubt that Death is pretty powerful, but to label him as Universal in statistics despite the lack of support for it in Soul Eater? At least for a full solid rating the support doesn't look very soid.

Its not just fire force. Ive shown plenty of quotes from soul eater supporting it, and heck, there are several statements the very function of God in SE is to rule over the cosmos.

universal

FIre Force could be wall level for all I care. the purpose of this crt is not to immediately slap on "2-c" to either Death and Asura's profile. It is to establish that both scale to fire force god tiers, which has a massive amount of narrative support within Soul Eater as well

I specified this in the OP twice:

Once again, this CRT is not to give either of these immediate tier changes, rather it is meant to prove that these two characters scale to the god tiers of Fire Force in direct power.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Also been asked to note that it's been said before arc plans to revise Fire Force down the line, but as I said above, that is not super relevant atm

 

[Cyberblader90]

I would probably prefer a “likely” rating as opposed to a full solid rating tbh lol.

im fine with "likely"

transition can be cleaner that way

 

[Maitreya12]

im fine with "likely"

transition can be cleaner that way

I think the better position here for Death’s concrete scaling chain is to take the stance that Death is above the Kishin which is heavily implied to be the Adolla of the world of Soul eater. Brought back due to the madness and fear created from Shinra’s new world.

It even goes as far as the say the Kishin is the living embodiment of fear itself and will continue to exist so long as fear exists. Sounds awfully familiar to Adolla

 

[Cyberblader90]

ive always a bit ehhh on take, given that adolla was despair, and asura is fear. granted it could work.

Regardless i think that between the OP and clarifications that came after, Death is above the CU. Modern Day Asura scales per the fight in chapter 22, and he only got stronger as his madness spread across the world

 

[Cyberblader90]

Damage are you fine with "likely"?

 

[Damage3245]

Damage are you fine with "likely"?

Yeah.

 

[Cyberblader90]

lets see, for "likely scales to Haumea and The collective unconscious/Adolla"

In agreement:
King_Tempest, Pain_to12, Excel616, Arkensis, DemonGodMitchAubin, Dalesean027, Alexander, Epiccheev, Maitreya, Nierre, The_2nd_Existential_Seed (partial), Phantom_Falcon, Damage3245, ObberGobb

Neutral:
LordGinSama

 

[ObberGobb]

So is the current idea "At least 5-B, likely 2-C?"

 

[Cyberblader90]

hmmmm now that you mention it

Arthur Boyle

Arthur Boyle is a Third Generation Fire Officer of Tokyo's 8th Special Fire Brigade. Tier: At least 7-C, higher with Superfire | Varies, up to 5-B Key: Base | Great Cataclysm & Star Ring Name: Arthur Boyle Origin: Enen no Shouboutai Gender: Male Age: 17 Classification: Human, Firefighter, Knight...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Excalibur would prob end 5-b since it was born after Arthur reached 5-b. Great old ones are all relative to each other.

Asura was going to have 2-3 keys. His first was going to be pre Kishin, in which he was stated as the strongest of the group (besides death)
Death and Asura scaling to 5-b would be very clean.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Tempest suggests kishin and Black Blood Revived keys for Asura, so he will have 2 in total

 

[Dalesean027]

hmmmm now that you mention it

Arthur Boyle

Arthur Boyle is a Third Generation Fire Officer of Tokyo's 8th Special Fire Brigade. Tier: At least 7-C, higher with Superfire | Varies, up to 5-B Key: Base | Great Cataclysm & Star Ring Name: Arthur Boyle Origin: Enen no Shouboutai Gender: Male Age: 17 Classification: Human, Firefighter, Knight...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Excalibur would prob end 5-b since it was born after Arthur reached 5-b. Great old ones are all relative to each other.

Asura was going to have 2-3 keys. His first was going to be pre Kishin, in which he was stated as the strongest of the group (besides death)
Death and Asura scaling to 5-b would be very clean.

Yeah that's what I've been saying all this time, I probably worded it wrong. But yeah Excalibur was like actually alive after Arthur bested dragon and should scale relative to them from other lore

 

[Nierre]

Yeah.

I am pretty wary about using titles like "GOD" and "Absolute Being" to rate Death as being > Haumea & the Evangelist.

I don't doubt that Death is pretty powerful, but to label him as Universal in statistics despite the lack of support for it in Soul Eater? At least for a full solid rating the support doesn't look very soid.

I'll say again if the full scaling of death isn't accepted we can at least say he, excalibur, and kishin are all 5-B scaling from other 5-B characters

smh they should've been 5-B a loooong time ago... curse u Fire Force!!!!

 

[Cyberblader90]

So is the current idea "At least 5-B, likely 2-C?"

id remove the "at least", all the fire force pages with 5-b dont have an "at least"

actually wait im wrong

Haumea

Haumea is a Third Generation pyrokinetic who possesses the Adolla Burst and is known as the Second Pillar. She is respectfully referred to as the voice of the Evangelist and is the defacto leader of the White Clad. Having endured the dark, despairing thoughts of mankind throughout her childhood...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Haumea does

 

[ObberGobb]

Personally, I don't even feel like the "likely" is necessary. Scaling to 2-C seems pretty clear-cut to me, but if its necessary I am willing to accept the "likely" if no one else wants straight 2-C. It just seems to me that with all the stuff with Shinra and the Kishin being Adolla, the intent was to make the series' God Tiers scale to each other. I know that conjecture about authorial intent isn't strong evidence, but in my opinion two "probablys" should make a straight rating.

 

[Cyberblader90]

with the current tiers, "likely" works well enough either way.

Do we have enough mods to conclude this crt?

 

[Lynieryz]

with the current tiers, "likely" works well enough either way.

Do we have enough mods to conclude this crt?

shouldn't crona have a kishin key?

 

[Cyberblader90]

crona will be fixed in a separate crt

 

[Cyberblader90]

i have part 2 of this crt ready, just need this one to be finished. As stated in the op, any edits to the actual pages will wait until all scaling discussion is done (this includes part 2)

 

[Chrome]

nothing specifies this. Lack of range to arthur doesnt limit his power. Haumea shows the exact same level of range to manipulate souls, as does shinra.

That’s because souls only exist on earth why would they manipulate souls outside of it? That example didn’t make any sense, the only thing soul eater has going is like 5 statements meanwhile the rest of the story implies around planetary which is once again coherent with death’s purpose and his displays in fire force.

 

[Cyberblader90]

That’s because souls only exist on earth why would they manipulate souls outside of it?

the point being death has the same function as shinra and haumea, they all manipulate souls of mankind, and only beings on their tier can. Death also has a larger soul than shinrabanshoman, and Soul Eater establishes as early on as Star vs Mifune round 2 that can correlate to power. Death also causes mankind to become stronger than they were before hand, which is repeated in Soul Eater.

 

[Chrome]

the point being death has the same function as shinra and haumea, they all manipulate souls of mankind, and only beings on their tier can. Death also has a larger soul than shinrabanshoman, and Soul Eater establishes as early on as Star vs Mifune round 2 that can correlate to power. Death also causes mankind to become stronger than they were before hand, which is repeated in Soul Eater.

Manipulating souls isn’t their function just an ability they possess and haumea even before her fusion with the evangelist could absorb souls. Larger soul isn’t a good argument here as the power system hadn’t even changed at that point not to mention you’d be insinuating shinra can create beings much stronger than himself. And this last points seems irrelevant.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Shinra cant manipulate souls before his fusion, only after.

Haumea can only absorb the souls of the Pillars in Adolla, and she has the blessing of the evangelist. She manipulates all the souls of mankind when she fully merges with the evangelist.

Shinra made Death to replace, thats been the whole point of the CRT OP, which has been supported through of the entire thread. Death isnt going to be scaling above shinra, hes going to be sacaling above The CU. Haumea even says neither she or the CU are god.

Power system hasnt changed.

Would still count as Shinra uses soul resonance to become SBM, which is soul eater's power system.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Death has the following from Soul Eater:

He is the ruler of the world and the Cosmos, stated several times. This correlates to his function as God
The Soul Eater Databook puts focus on his "power of God", and that he is the most powerful being
Death is known to be an absolute being
It is noted Death/ Shinigami has "true power" and that the madness wavelength of beings like him and Asura are on the level of God

Nierre goes more into it in this post:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-to-soul-eater-death-and-asura.148803/post-5449836

Combined with the op, it's clear he would be as was said earlier, in the same tier if not above Adolla/CU

 

[Chrome]

Shinra cant manipulate souls before his fusion, only after.

Haumea can only absorb the souls of the Pillars in Adolla, and she has the blessing of the evangelist. She manipulates all the souls of mankind when she fully merges with the evangelist.

Shinra made Death to replace, thats been the whole point of the CRT OP, which has been supported through of the entire thread. Death isnt going to be scaling above shinra, hes going to be sacaling above The CU. Haumea even says neither she or the CU are god.



Would still count as Shinra uses soul resonance to become SBM, which is soul eater's power system.

Nothing you said insinuates manipulating souls is anything other than an ability…shinra also manipulates time, matter, elements and all types of things. Nothing points to souls being the main purpose of his existence. Same for haumea we actually know her purpose.

I guess benimaru’s doppelgänger also scales above the collective since he’s the image of a destroyer god given form.

It’s not even the same soul resonance Pyrokinesis still exist and could always influence souls.

 

[Chrome]

Death has the following from Soul Eater:

He is the ruler of the world and the Cosmos, stated several times. This correlates to his function as God
The Soul Eater Databook puts focus on his "power of God", and that he is the most powerful being
Death is known to be an absolute being
It is noted Death/ Shinigami has "true power" and that the madness wavelength of beings like him and Asura are on the level of God

Nierre goes more into it in this post:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-to-soul-eater-death-and-asura.148803/post-5449836

Combined with the op, it's clear he would be as was said earlier, in the same tier if not above Adolla/CU

Can’t rule the cosmos when his range doesn’t even extend past the earth. Statements like that are hit or miss as they’re ofted used to show strength like how someone can be stated to be beyond imagination or logic when that’s usually never the case.

Also your whole argument is based on him being called god which is weak af to be frank. Universal soul eater isn’t even consistent.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I cant even.

ill keep this as simple as possible. manipulation of souls is not even the main argument. Its what Haumea says the power of god means. Im getting the vibe you didnt read the OP to begin with at all.

God is meant in a power perspective, and God as a title in Fire Force means you are the strongest as you stand above the collective unconscious. Shinra after performing the first ever soul resonance becomes Shinrabanshoman, and is noted by both Sho and Haumea (who had merged with the entire collective unconscious) to have the power of God, a being like none. Haumea directly correlates the title of God with the notion of strength. Death is then made to fill SBM's role as "god", to give the people a god in the flesh.

She specifies Shinra is God of all creation because he has imagination and the "power of God"., and she doesn't classify as God herself.

Ohkubo created this concept back in Soul Eater, correlating the title of God purely to power. Death is born as GOD in FF, and fills Shinra's function

Can’t rule the cosmos when his range doesn’t even extend past the earth. Statements like that are hit or miss as they’re ofted used to show strength like how someone can be stated to be beyond imagination or logic when that’s usually never the case.

He does as it is his function. Range on your end is weak as hell argument. Shinra's range is limited to earth/ at most to the sun by feats. Heck, he needs to rewind time multiple times to make his ideal world. By your logic Benimaru would be stronger than Shinra.

Nothing you said insinuates manipulating souls is anything other than an ability…shinra also manipulates time, matter, elements and all types of things. Nothing points to souls being the main purpose of his existence. Same for haumea we actually know her purpose. I guess benimaru’s doppelgänger also scales above the collective since he’s the image of a destroyer god given form

He gains all those aspects from fusing. The whole point of the soul argument is to show he has the same functions as SBM does. Your doppelganger argument doesnt make any sense, he doesnt have the actual title of god that Huemea explains, and that title is only given to Shinra and Death,

universal

you did not read the OP at all. This crt isnt to change their tiers at this moment (arc will be trying to change FF later on), its to prove they scale to FF god tiers.

 

[Chrome]

I cant even.

ill keep this as simple as possible. manipulation of souls is not even the main argument. Its what Haumea says the power of god means. Im getting the vibe you didnt read the OP to begin with at all.

God is meant in a power perspective, and God as a title in Fire Force means you are the strongest as you stand above the collective unconscious. Shinra after performing the first ever soul resonance becomes Shinrabanshoman, and is noted by both Sho and Haumea (who had merged with the entire collective unconscious) to have the power of God, a being like none. Haumea directly correlates the title of God with the notion of strength. Death is then made to fill SBM's role as "god", to give the people a god in the flesh.

You’re literally giving your headcanon definition of god that’s not even backed up by your scans. Haumea literally tried to kill sbm after all of this so she clearly doesn’t see him as some truly omnipotent force of nature above

She specifies Shinra is God of all creation because he has imagination and the "power of God"., and she doesn't classify as God herself.


Ohkubo created this concept back in Soul Eater, correlating the title of God purely to power. Death is born as GOD in FF, and fills Shinra's function

Shinra is the god of all creation while death is the god of death…literally 2 different types of gods contradicting your point. Shinra’s role is to rule of nature itself while death’s role doesn’t go past death, souls and the earth.

He does as it is his function. Range on your end is weak as hell argument. Shinra's range is limited to earth/ at most to the sun by feats. Heck, he needs to rewind time multiple times to make his ideal world. By your logic Benimaru would be stronger than Shinra.

Shinra’s range isn’t limited by the earth which you debunked yourself so idk why you even brought it up. Rewinding time isn’t an anti feat to his range you’re just saying shit at this point. Shinra clearly has better range than beni…

He gains all those aspects from fusing. The whole point of the soul argument is to show he has the same functions as SBM does. Your doppelganger argument doesnt make any sense, he doesnt have the actual title of god that Huemea explains, and that title is only given to Shinra and Death,



you did not read the OP at all. This crt isnt to change their tiers at this moment (arc will be trying to change FF later on), its to prove they scale to FF god tiers.

He does have the title god as his real counterpart has that title and he embodies those perceptions. Pretty sure beni’s dopple himself says he’s a destroyer god.

Scaling to the god tiers would put them at 2-C