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It doesn't, Alfador stands on his own two feet
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Fire Emblem discussion thread: Long Live Medeus!
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
Bobsican
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I could TRY at 4-A FE, but it'll probably be rejected simply because it's "never stated", no matter how much it's treated like a showing of power by the main cast.....and if it were simply moving to space Anankos would just become powerless as he is unable to leave Valla (which Anankos is also entirely aware of)
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Yeah, I'm pretty iffy about the 4-A stuff, but High 6-B would be the bare minimum for those comparable to Grima given his skeleton covering all of Plegia. Even if Duma and Mila's supposed creation feat is iffy, Grima's size is still consistent. And Medeus' eventual planetary threat statement is also a good back up.
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Pro 4-A:
Everyone treated it like a showing of power
Anankos can't leave Valla, meaning it's a pocket dimension
Anti 4-A:
"Well, it's never said Anankos CREATED the dimension" but then....where did they go? Cause space certainly isn't Valla
I do see this being a very tedious back and forth though
Everyone treated it like a showing of power
Anankos can't leave Valla, meaning it's a pocket dimension
Anti 4-A:
"Well, it's never said Anankos CREATED the dimension" but then....where did they go? Cause space certainly isn't Valla
I do see this being a very tedious back and forth though
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Yeah, I understand that. I too would like to see 4-A Fire Emblem.
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The crazy part is the characters who scale to 4-A
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Yeah, Naga was said to be much stronger than Anankos, whom often struggled to fight Duma, Mila, Medeus, ect. It would scale to practically every end game boss in Marth's timeline.
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Not only was it said that Naga is stronger than Anankos, but it literally came from his own mouth
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What feat?
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Ashunera? That's all I can think of, but she's from another timeline. And Elibe's was more so environmental destruction.
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That was agreed to just be Space-Time reality warping rather than AP.
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Bobsican
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1.- Duma's High 6-B justification is making reference to a feat exclusive to the Fire Emblem Heroes Meet some of the Heroes page, which is exclusive to the mobile game.
https://guide.fire-emblem-heroes.com/en-US/duma_god_of_strength/
2.- Neither Duma or Mila were ever stated to have created Valentia on the Canonical game of echoes of Valentia, in fact, based on this, they were just banished and traveled for 9 days to discover and inhabit Valentia.
https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/articles/valentian-revelations/
"Chapter 22 After being exiled, Duma and Mila traveled across the ocean for 7 days before finally alighting here on this continent. (There is an official version, but this version is slightly different.)
Chapter 23 Duma and Mila chased their ideals on this continent that they now called home."
So, this High 6-B should be considered invalid and in need of reevaluation.
3.-Grima's size in the overworld map being considered for AP is ludicrous for various reasons, one is the nature of game mechanics and overworld sprites themselves, if we take them at face value, Chrom on this picture should be the size of a mountain at least.
Two, Grima is shown to be smaller in various cutscenes, such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T8V8X1xR9k (0:20 show him comparable to regular clouds)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCqWT6BGw8c (0:44 shows him as multi city block size.)
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7H-LFdqZng (0:18 shows him as at least city sized.)
https://youtu.be/QPYcsw9s44c?t=1473 (24:33 in game model shows him to be multi city block to city level in size.) So again, this might result in a overall downgrade for Main timeline Fire Emblem. (FE4-FE1-EoV and Awakening.)"
- Hans
https://guide.fire-emblem-heroes.com/en-US/duma_god_of_strength/
2.- Neither Duma or Mila were ever stated to have created Valentia on the Canonical game of echoes of Valentia, in fact, based on this, they were just banished and traveled for 9 days to discover and inhabit Valentia.
https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/articles/valentian-revelations/
"Chapter 22 After being exiled, Duma and Mila traveled across the ocean for 7 days before finally alighting here on this continent. (There is an official version, but this version is slightly different.)
Chapter 23 Duma and Mila chased their ideals on this continent that they now called home."
So, this High 6-B should be considered invalid and in need of reevaluation.
3.-Grima's size in the overworld map being considered for AP is ludicrous for various reasons, one is the nature of game mechanics and overworld sprites themselves, if we take them at face value, Chrom on this picture should be the size of a mountain at least.
Two, Grima is shown to be smaller in various cutscenes, such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T8V8X1xR9k (0:20 show him comparable to regular clouds)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCqWT6BGw8c (0:44 shows him as multi city block size.)
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7H-LFdqZng (0:18 shows him as at least city sized.)
https://youtu.be/QPYcsw9s44c?t=1473 (24:33 in game model shows him to be multi city block to city level in size.) So again, this might result in a overall downgrade for Main timeline Fire Emblem. (FE4-FE1-EoV and Awakening.)"
- Hans
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1. It's referring to how Duma and Mila practically shaped the culture of Valentia
Everything else. .....and?
Everything else. .....and?
Bobsican
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""There is no indication of Duma shaping the "culture" of anything in Valentia nor the chronology of events. He did not create Valentia, only moved there after being banished by Naga, and thus, the High 6-B tiering is invalid.
Also, the rest are there to debunk Grima being large country level sized"
- Hans
Also, the rest are there to debunk Grima being large country level sized"
- Hans
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Official timeline and Book of Revelations talk about how Duma and Mila didn't literally create Valentia, but rather made Zofia and Rigel the countries they are (well, were), with a big event being when they made a pact with Zofia and Rigel, granting them the power they needed to fend off pirates, I already planned on removing that rating
The highest end for Grima's size, excluding the world map, would likely be how Grima's skull is bigger than Castle Plegia, the full body would likely wind up in the Tier 6 range, but I never planned on High 6-B via Grima alone
The highest end for Grima's size, excluding the world map, would likely be how Grima's skull is bigger than Castle Plegia, the full body would likely wind up in the Tier 6 range, but I never planned on High 6-B via Grima alone
Bobsican
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https://www.deviantart.com/kaykao/art/Size-Comparison-Grima-and-Anankos-664511042
Lucina is about 1.7 meters tall
Lucina is about 1.7 meters tall
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All of those scans are based on limitations due to game mechanics. And there legit exists an image where Grima's skeleton alone showcases him dwarfing the entire Country of Plegia. And for reference, all three countries one Ylisse are fairly large. Keep in mine that the size of Japan is the baseline for 6-B; the USA is roughly High 6-B sized and Canada is easily High 6-B sized, which Plegia and Ylisse would be roughly in between the size of those countries given they're literally the landmass of multiple counties put together. Fenox is roughly Canada to Russia sized, which Russia is the baseline for 6-A. Plegia is roughly half the size of Fenox, so it would still be around the same border of High 6-B.
So High 6-B Grima is legit however it's looked at. Also, I really don't trust Hans' sense of judgement given she's a Mikoto sock. More details were discussed here and here.
That being said, there isn't quite enough context for using Duma or Mila's creation feat, and Duma's plagues are more so environmental destruction, but Mila warping Sofia to produce vegetation should count for something. And they'd still backwards scale from Naga, Medeus and Grima regardless. But 6-B to High 6-B range is still concrete.
In fact, I heard a statement that Grima's true self dwarfs the size of Dragon's Table and Ylisse. He's simply too big to display on screen and thus smaller depictions shouldn't be taken literally. It's similar to the classic Dragon Quest games where the pixel scaling character sprites are bigger than the houses in the overworld.
So High 6-B Grima is legit however it's looked at. Also, I really don't trust Hans' sense of judgement given she's a Mikoto sock. More details were discussed here and here.
That being said, there isn't quite enough context for using Duma or Mila's creation feat, and Duma's plagues are more so environmental destruction, but Mila warping Sofia to produce vegetation should count for something. And they'd still backwards scale from Naga, Medeus and Grima regardless. But 6-B to High 6-B range is still concrete.
In fact, I heard a statement that Grima's true self dwarfs the size of Dragon's Table and Ylisse. He's simply too big to display on screen and thus smaller depictions shouldn't be taken literally. It's similar to the classic Dragon Quest games where the pixel scaling character sprites are bigger than the houses in the overworld.
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Considering she 100% has the same behavior and reasoning skills as her, it's pretty clear cut. Plus Matt knows her more than anyone else. And that she's had a long history of creating socks left and right, it's pretty clear cut.
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She can seem nice at first, I too was once friends with her and Matt was also once friends with her. But then she can get really troublesome when you do things that doesn't go her way. When she acts nice, it's often just an act. We're not forcing you out of helping her, but we do have to warn you that Mikoto is quite dangerous.
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best written character?
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Composite AnnaDragonboi9191 said:
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You remember my beginning here, when i was spamming Composite Anna? Good ol'timesPaChi2 said:
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@Bobsican on this thread, look at the links JSW provided. You see his skull alone dwarf the size of Plegia Castle and is roughly mountain sized. There's also his individual ribs being larger than various mountains, his tail also stretches beyond the center divide that separates Ferox from the other two countries (Which is basically the Ural Mountains that separate Europe from Asia, but Horizontal rather than Vertical). And it's even stated that he dwarfs Ylisse somewhere.
Bobsican
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I can´t say the same for Hans, however...
"1.-Grima's tail being in a map (maps themselves are not on scale or everyone would be the size of a building or a town) so it cannot be used sknce nothing is on scale.
2.-Midmire wiki page linked has no image, and the map again, is not on scale.
3.-Plegia Caslte illustration (since it is not part of a gameplay map, it shpuld be considered canon), but Grima's skull is barely bigger than 8-A while compared to the caslte on the background
4.-Courtyards is once again, part of the gameplay map and cannot be used for scale, if you truly want to use it, the we should scale it based on thr number of squares it uses and how it compared to the size of one regular sized male counted on a horse that occupies said square, which would be a lot smaller than 8-B.
Conclusions - Grima's size is too inconsistent to be used to justify a rating, not only the body parts are separate from one another, its size increases and decreases from cutscenes (which shows Lucina is roughly smaller than one of Grima's eyes.)"
- Hans
"1.-Grima's tail being in a map (maps themselves are not on scale or everyone would be the size of a building or a town) so it cannot be used sknce nothing is on scale.
2.-Midmire wiki page linked has no image, and the map again, is not on scale.
3.-Plegia Caslte illustration (since it is not part of a gameplay map, it shpuld be considered canon), but Grima's skull is barely bigger than 8-A while compared to the caslte on the background
4.-Courtyards is once again, part of the gameplay map and cannot be used for scale, if you truly want to use it, the we should scale it based on thr number of squares it uses and how it compared to the size of one regular sized male counted on a horse that occupies said square, which would be a lot smaller than 8-B.
Conclusions - Grima's size is too inconsistent to be used to justify a rating, not only the body parts are separate from one another, its size increases and decreases from cutscenes (which shows Lucina is roughly smaller than one of Grima's eyes.)"
- Hans
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Except the fact that Grimas head location and his tail location literally being that far apart shows that the length from head to tail is literally thousands of kilometers. Midmire used to have an image. Castles are actually pretty large, but much of them are big enough to be Tier 7. But anyway, it's shown to be large as a mountain.
That's irrelevant, the background still has different graphics than characters so comparing them to the size of the characters shouldn't be judged. It should be compared to the size of the mountains and forests instead. Or better yet, Grima's head to tail distance and literally the size of his entire skeleton is dwarfs that of Plegia or the country of Ylisse. All smaller showings are based on cinematic limitations and/or avatars. It's similar to what happens in Dragon Ball Super when the cast meet Super Shenron, who's Multi-Galaxy sized but doesn't look it when the characters talk to him. His largest portrayal in size is easily his most concrete and canon size.
Also, Grima actually has multiple bodies, but his true body is indeed stretching across the Continent. The smaller bodies are merely avatars and not the true Grima.
That's irrelevant, the background still has different graphics than characters so comparing them to the size of the characters shouldn't be judged. It should be compared to the size of the mountains and forests instead. Or better yet, Grima's head to tail distance and literally the size of his entire skeleton is dwarfs that of Plegia or the country of Ylisse. All smaller showings are based on cinematic limitations and/or avatars. It's similar to what happens in Dragon Ball Super when the cast meet Super Shenron, who's Multi-Galaxy sized but doesn't look it when the characters talk to him. His largest portrayal in size is easily his most concrete and canon size.
Also, Grima actually has multiple bodies, but his true body is indeed stretching across the Continent. The smaller bodies are merely avatars and not the true Grima.
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