Final Fantasy Miscellaneous Revisions

[HST_Master]

Gonna get into some stuff so buckle up.

Zack World of Final Fantasy 2-A Key:

In World of Final Fantasy Zack unlike other Lilikins is stated to be the exact same Zack from FF7, sent to Grymoire after his death via the lifestream and its small amount of Mako connecting Gaia and Grymoire. He'd scale to 2-A based on fighting perfect copies of the Main Protagonists, Lann & Reynn, and Lilikin Cecil whilst under the effects of Mako Sickness.




Final Fantasy X Tier 4 Upgrade:

Jecht while inside Sin created a Pocket Dimension with stars based on Zanarkand. To back this up, official art shows Dream's End floating among Stars and his Overdrive Ultimate Jecht Shot involves him summoning a Meteor from deep space and catching it.



To further this, Tidus while in Palamecia in Mobius Final Fantasy was stated to have grown stronger during his stay there and stalemate WoL, who's already encountered the likes of post XIII Lightning, Cloud, and Squall and can one-shot his Aeons, who scale in strength to the summoner. This would scale to anyone who had a part in X's final battle and the gullwings as they can fight Tidus in the Fiend Arena




https://imgur.com/tPCLC13

https://imgur.com/rlJsRHj

Dissidia Buffs:

Dissidia characters have no need to eat or drink so Self Sustenance Type 2 for everybody

https://imgur.com/Agky9vo

The Emperor should have Life Force Absorption via his traps

https://imgur.com/GTpmEqv

Ardyn can see The Emperor's Invisible Traps

https://imgur.com/nHkDyt0

The Emperor can trap beings in his traps and should have Power Absorption

https://imgur.com/ijQ9zNL

The Emperor should have Danmaku via Castle Palamecia. It can attack from all directions.

https://imgur.com/46hllpU

Ultimecia should have Memory Manipulation by taking others memories to power herself up and changing them

https://imgur.com/WLGuOIe
https://imgur.com/lvaOBvn
https://imgur.com/xDn5Jcu
https://imgur.com/h70WUwI
https://imgur.com/8CUMZ5R
https://imgur.com/KgRQOpV
https://imgur.com/NY1ouDZ
https://imgur.com/LGUVJS1

Rinoa should have resistance to this via her Sorceress Power temporarily enabling her to resist.

Jecht has control of Sin's Power:

https://imgur.com/XoVC2hs

All characters with a fragment of silt should gain a "far higher via etc" as they become strong enough to easily overpower several characters at once which currently includes:

Jecht (Braska's Final Aeon)
Ultimecia (Griever Junction)
Mateus (Hell Emperor)
Sephiroth (Safer Sephiroth)
Hope (Bhunivelze) (He doesn't have a profile so meh)
Caius Ballad (Chaos Bahamut)

And that's currently it for now.

Summon Buffs:

Ifrit should gain elemental intangibility, as he can turn into smoke and flames respectively.

https://imgur.com/xz1Ymgw

Carbuncle should gain Illusion Creation

https://imgur.com/fUUHom0

Diabolos should have Dream Manipulation and Memory Manipulation

https://imgur.com/maZr9Gk

 

[Shmooply]

Following.

 

[Theglassman12]

Shouldn’t the emperor also have power absorption too given Leon mentions that?

Also Diabolos should also have memory hax too given it’s stated he can alter your memories.

everything else is fine.

 

[HST_Master]

Yea to both

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is all looking good to me.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Show the whole convo or tell me where this is from

Wol doesn't scale to lightning. Lightning was holding back and when she got a little serious, she stomped him. Wol stated he didn't even have a chance against her. This was also a shadow of Lightning. The FF8 event was released in 2019 which is after the FFX event, so I don't think we can scale Tidus to Squall

The Emperor should have Danmaku via Castle Palamecia. It can attack from all directions.

Danmaku is making many projectiles, at least 20 at once. The Emperor wasn't doing that, he was setting up traps which appeared everywhere. He needs explosion manipulation for this too

 

[HST_Master]

Show the whole convo or tell me where this is from

Act 3, Iroha's debut

Wol doesn't scale to lightning. Lightning was holding back and when she got a little serious, she stomped him. Wol stated he didn't even have a chance against her. This was also a shadow of Lightning. The FF8 event was released in 2019 which is after the FFX event, so I don't think we can scale Tidus to Squall

This isn't the the crutch of my argument anyway given it's pre XIII-2 Lightning, it's to show Tidus has gotten stronger in Palamecia. The base of the argument is Jecht creating his dimension.

Danmaku is making many projectiles, at least 20 at once. The Emperor wasn't doing that, he was setting up traps which appeared everywhere. He needs explosion manipulation for this too

That's Act 2 Castle Palamecia, brought from Memory. The Castle Palamecia above is from Act 3, recreated by the Emperor's own power after gaining his Silt and spreading to other worlds and the Attacks are very much coming from all sides from Machina and Cater, no traps shown

 

[XXKINGXX69]

That's Act 2 Castle Palamecia, brought from Memory. The Castle Palamecia above is from Act 3, recreated by the Emperor's own power after gaining his Silt and spreading to other worlds and the Attacks are very much coming from all sides from Machina and Cater, no traps shown

You mean this? That's not even danmaku, that's just shooting energy, not at least 20 energy blasts at one time

I think the summon buffs should only apply to those summons in that game (except for Diabolos since its talking about him in general), and by extension the true forms of the summons in XIII. Those statements aren't talking about Ifrit and Carbuncle in general, just the one in War of the Visions and the Carbuncle in World of Final Fantasy

If you can find evidence Wol scales to Squall or Gilgamesh before Tidus fought him, then Tidus would be 2-A. Other than that, I think you can apply all the other stuff since you got 2 staff approvals

 

[HST_Master]

You mean this? That's not even danmaku, that's just shooting energy, not at least 20 energy blasts at one time

They're blatantly saying that attacks are coming from all directions.

I think the summon buffs should only apply to those summons in that game (except for Diabolos since its talking about him in general), and by extension the true forms of the summons in XIII. Those statements aren't talking about Ifrit and Carbuncle in general, just the one in War of the Visions and the Carbuncle in World of Final Fantasy

We take summon statements as a generalization unless stated otherwise, E.G. Ifreeta, plus They're not the only ones to do so as Ifrit in XV also displays this ability of turning into flames.

If you can find evidence Wol scales to Squall or Gilgamesh before Tidus fought him, then Tidus would be 2-A. Other than that, I think you can apply all the other stuff since you got 2 staff approvals

I'm not trying to scale him to 2-A though, it's only there to provide proof Tidus had gotten stronger while in Palamecia.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

They're blatantly saying that attacks are coming from all directions.

Not all directions and again, that's not even enough for danmaku. read the danmaku page to know why

We take summon statements as a generalization unless stated otherwise

No we don't, where did you get this from? Those statements are talking about those specific summons in that game. We take the ifrit burning the world statement as a generalization because it was from the Dissidia museum talking about Ifrits in general, same for Leviathan

I'm not trying to scale him to 2-A though, it's only there to provide proof Tidus had gotten stronger while in Palamecia.

Just scale him to 2-A tbh

 

[HST_Master]

Not all directions and again, that's not even enough for danmaku. read the danmaku page to know why

Their statements say otherwise. Even if the game itself can't show it fully.

No we don't, where did you get this from? Those statements are talking about those specific summons in that game. We take the ifrit burning the world statement as a generalization because it was from the Dissidia museum talking about Ifrits in general, same for Leviathan

No they're not. For 1 summons are tribes in WoFF and all based on other FFs which means they're more than one and their abilities are uniform unless said otherwise like Ifreeta who's the sole esper who's stated to have an ability utterly unique to her. Second summons share similar characteristics and abilities throughout the games. Primal Garuda and Messenger Garuda despite being separate have the same soul signature and abilities to the point the Ixali accidentally summoned her over Primal Garuda.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Their statements say otherwise. Even if the game itself can't show it fully.

No they're not. For 1 summons are tribes in WoFF and all based on other FFs which means they're more than one and their abilities are uniform unless said otherwise like Ifreeta who's the sole esper who's stated to have an ability utterly unique to her. Second summons share similar characteristics and abilities throughout the games. Primal Garuda and Messenger Garuda despite being separate have the same soul signature and abilities to the point the Ixali accidentally summoned her over Primal Garuda.

Again, attacks coming from all directions isn't even enough for danmaku

Scan of them being based on other FFs?

That's because Garuda from XV is basically the same as the one from XIV. Garuda is also special because of the soul signature and abilities thing you mentioned, other summons aren't all like that, they just have similar elemental skills, not that everything is the same. If you want to argue they all have similar characteristics, then why not scale all of them to each other? Why stop at just powers and abilities? Upgrade them all to 2-A

 

[HST_Master]

Again, attacks coming from all directions isn't even enough for danmaku

Dude just denying what's in the scan isn't an argument

Scan of them being based on other FFs?

Enna Kros makes her world's and it's inhabitants based on the existing multiverse.

That's because Garuda from XV is basically the same as the one from XIV. Garuda is also special because of the soul signature and abilities thing you mentioned, other summons aren't all like that, they just have similar elemental skills, not that everything is the same.

Uh no? You're just aserting Messenger Garuda is somehow special for no reason when there's zero proving her to be so. This could happen to any and all summons, there is nothing that makes her special, all summons have a similar soul signature, it could just as easily happen to Ifrit or Ramuh.

If you want to argue they all have similar characteristics, then why not scale all of them to each other? Why stop at just powers and abilities? Upgrade them all to 2-A

Excellent strawman. Statistics =/= powers & abilities. Characters can have the same abilities whilst having separate stats

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Dude just denying what's in the scan isn't an argument

Enna Kros makes her world's and it's inhabitants based on the existing multiverse.

Uh no? You're just aserting Messenger Garuda is somehow special for no reason when there's zero proving her to be so. This could happen to any and all summons, there is nothing that makes her special, all summons have a similar soul signature, it could just as easily happen to Ifrit or Ramuh.

Excellent strawman. Statistics =/= powers & abilities. Characters can have the same abilities whilst having separate stats

Dude just denying what's in the scan isn't an argument

Denying the definition of Danmaku isn't one either

Enna Kros makes her world's and it's inhabitants based on the existing multiverse.

Great so how does this mean Carbuncle in WoFF's abilities applies to like all carbuncles? This is like giving Vegeta all of Goku's abilities because Vegito has Goku's abilities

Uh no? You're just aserting Messenger Garuda is somehow special for no reason when there's zero proving her to be so. This could happen to any and all summons, there is nothing that makes her special, all summons have a similar soul signature, it could just as easily happen to Ifrit or Ramuh.

Because messenger garuda and the primal are the same thing, while summons in other games tend to have different and new abilities that their counterparts in other games don't

 

[Theglassman12]

How exactly is he denying the definition of Danmaku when he's using a statement that attacks are appearing everywhere in a giant castle that holds stars and constellations?

 

[HST_Master]

Denying the definition of Danmaku isn't one either

And Cater verbatim states their are attacks coming from everywhere. She doesn't need to say "they're over 20 attacks coming from everywhere!"

Great so how does this mean Carbuncle in WoFF's abilities applies to like all carbuncles? This is like giving Vegeta all of Goku's abilities because Vegito has Goku's abilities

.....what? Goku and Vegeta are 2 different beings. This is carbuncle all the same. Their abilities are no different from others.

Because messenger garuda and the primal are the same thing, while summons in other games tend to have different and new abilities that their counterparts in other games don't

Again no. This is supreme cherry picking. There is nothing special about Primal Garuda and Messenger Garuda. For Christ sake, Garuda isn't even Messenger Garuda's original name. She just took it from the Primal after she beat her. Your argument consists of just saying "they're special so they don't count" so you don't have to acknowledge their contradiction of your view.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

How exactly is he denying the definition of Danmaku when he's using a statement that attacks are appearing everywhere in a giant castle that holds stars and constellations?

Danmaku is at least 20 projectiles at once. Shooting energy blasts from everywhere doesn't mean its shooting 20 of them. Its not "everywhere in the entire castle that holds stars and constellations", its just everywhere around them

And Cater verbatim states their are attacks coming from everywhere. She doesn't need to say "they're over 20 attacks coming from everywhere!"

.....what? Goku and Vegeta are 2 different beings. This is carbuncle all the same. Their abilities are no different from others.

Again no. This is supreme cherry picking. There is nothing special about Primal Garuda and Messenger Garuda. For Christ sake, Garuda isn't even Messenger Garuda's original name. She just took it from the Primal after she beat her. Your argument consists of just saying "they're special so they don't count" so you don't have to acknowledge their contradiction of your view.

No, its a carbuncle made by taking concepts from other FF universes and Enna Kross

There is nothing special about Primal Garuda and Messenger Garuda. For Christ sake, Garuda isn't even Messenger Garuda's original name. She just took it from the Primal after she beat her. Your argument consists of just saying "they're special so they don't count" so you don't have to acknowledge their contradiction of your view.

I think the fact that not every summon is like Garuda in the sense that they have the same moveset means Garuda is special in this case. Its the only summon that has the same moves in 2 games

 

[HST_Master]

Danmaku is at least 20 projectiles at once. Shooting energy blasts from everywhere doesn't mean its shooting 20 of them. Its not "everywhere in the entire castle that holds stars and constellations", its just everywhere around them

That's not what he means and you know it. The attacks are coming from everywhere, every direction

No, its a carbuncle made by taking concepts from other FF universes and Enna Kross

She took the idea of Carbuncle from the existing Carbuncle, dude it's not that hard.

I think the fact that not every summon is like Garuda in the sense that they have the same moveset means Garuda is special in this case. Its the only summon that has the same moves in 2 games

And again no. There is no way shape or form that you can prove this couldn't happen to any other summon and that this is somehow someway exclusive to Garuda. That's BS.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

That's not what he means and you know it. The attacks are coming from everywhere, every direction

She took the idea of Carbuncle from the existing Carbuncle, dude it's not that hard.

And again no. There is no way shape or form that you can prove this couldn't happen to any other summon and that this is somehow someway exclusive to Garuda. That's BS.

Not what who means? Where does it say every direction? And again, attacks coming from everywhere is not danmaku

She took the idea of Carbuncle from the existing Carbuncle, dude it's not that hard.

From the several existing carbuncles that exist in many FF games? Why would the abilities of a carbuncle that's based on multiple carbuncles apply to every one?

And again no. There is no way shape or form that you can prove this couldn't happen to any other summon and that this is somehow someway exclusive to Garuda. That's BS.

Ok, show the scan of Garuda in XIV and XV having the same abilities and it will be easier to explain

 

[HST_Master]

Not what who means? Where does it say every direction? And again, attacks coming from everywhere is not danmaku

Cater verbatim states it's coming from everywhere, it's blatant.

From the several existing carbuncles that exist in many FF games? Why would the abilities of a carbuncle that's based on multiple carbuncles apply to every one?.

Because he is a tribe of Carbuncle. It's more than just one and they all share the same ability

Ok, show the scan of Garuda in XIV and XV having the same abilities and it will be easier to explain

Nono, you made the claim that they're relationship is unique in the franchise and it's up to you to prove it.The burden of proof is on you to back your claim up.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Gilgamesh won't like it when he finds out someone got Tier 2 scaling that didn't involve him.

Out of curiosity, the World of Final Fantasy setting is 2-A by itself?

Everything else seems fine? Tidus cross scaling is a bit wonky given Gil is there as well (though it depends when Gil's event came out and all that). But 4-A due to Dream's End by Jecht checks out well.

Dunno if this has been added already but Diabolos also controls space-time (sorry if stating the obvious).

 

[HST_Master]

World of FF is 2-A, yeah. Enna Kros creates a infinite multiverse of her own, along with when she is in Dissidia, she's purposely holding back for the sake of the world's law. Originally she was just gonna go back home.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Huh, along with Ring of Fates thats two FF worlds that branch into infinite ones by themselves.

 

[HST_Master]

At this point I'll start applying the revisions later today

 

[foxhunter]

Has the changes already been applied?

 

[HST_Master]

Has the changes already been applied?

I've been busy so I haven't finished yet

 

[Chianli]

I wonder why guy can equip ragnarok even thoughr in the games only firion can.