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Final Fantasy Discussion Thread

Warren_Valion

Warren_Valion

VS Battles
Retired
8,427
3,144
Since I couldn't find any current discussion thread on the new forum to post and discuss FFVII REMAKE Part 2 news that I've heard, I decided to create one.

This thread isn't just for FFVII stuff or Remake stuff - but for all FF stuff.

To prove that here are FF logos
1sBv.gif


Discuss!
 
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Personally I am really liking how XVI is embracing many of the classic elements of the franchise for its story. And kinda like our new edgy boi Clive. Though I still have to catch up to all the news.

Good to know, things are going smoothly in general for Remake part 2. Or so I've heard at least.
 
Yeah, XVI looks sick as shit. Can't wait to see more, feel like new info is inbound shortly.

Same with remake part 2. 4 hours of just Aerith and Sephiroth could mean so many things - I am hyped.
 
Well, IIRC the original unused ideas for VII had many ideas for the kind of relationship Sephiroth and Aerith would have, among which one would be Sephiroth watching over Aerith when the plan was that he would still genuinely be a Cetra and he would regularly buy flowers from her. When you think about it for how both are essentially the driving forces of the plot in each extreme, they don't have much of a relationship (tbf, in general Sephiroth doesn't have many outside Cloud), so this is a good chance to explore that in a more personal level.

In XVI has there been details on how the combat works. I've seen some bits that focus on the action part, but have there been details of how RPG elements will be added or if it goes into full action? I think the combat designer of DMC5 is part of the team for this, which is frankly great.
 
TartaChocholate said:
Well, IIRC the original unused ideas for VII had many ideas for the kind of relationship Sephiroth and Aerith would have, among which one would be Sephiroth watching over Aerith when the plan was that he would still genuinely be a Cetra and he would regularly buy flowers from her. When you think about it for how both are essentially the driving forces of the plot in each extreme, they don't have much of a relationship (tbf, in general Sephiroth doesn't have many outside Cloud), so this is a good chance to explore that in a more personal level.

In XVI has there been details on how the combat works. I've seen some bits that focus on the action part, but have there been details of how RPG elements will be added or if it goes into full action? I think the combat designer of DMC5 is part of the team for this, which is frankly great.
Click to expand...
Weren't Aerith and Sephiroth originally conceptualized as lovers, and then later as siblings until they arrived at what their relationship as (almost) equally opposing forces is today?

I'm pretty sure DMC5's battle director is the main battle director for XVI, which is just great! Don't get me wrong, I love turned-based battle systems (which ATB technically isn't, but same difference (funny story, for a long time I didn't like the ATB system, but then I played a little of VI again (which was the first FF game I played, probably, it was one of the first, and made me not like ATB) and realized why it was so fun)), but I prefer action-based/real-time combat.
 
Hey, wasn't there a future upgrade planned for 2-A Lightning and Bhunivelze? I know I heard that was a thing before, but does anyone know anything about it?
 
Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
Weren't Aerith and Sephiroth originally conceptualized as lovers, and then later as siblings until they arrived at what their relationship as (almost) equally opposing forces is today?

I'm pretty sure DMC5's battle director is the main battle director for XVI, which is just great! Don't get me wrong, I love turned-based battle systems (which ATB technically isn't, but same difference (funny story, for a long time I didn't like the ATB system, but then I played a little of VI again (which was the first FF game I played, probably, it was one of the first, and made me not like ATB) and realized why it was so fun)), but I prefer action-based/real-time combat.
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VII went through a lot of ideas that went unused, it's almost surreal the kind of game that could have turned out to be if those had been used. I was hoping during 2019 that some of the unused stuff could make it to the Remake, but they obviously went in a very different direction.

Both turn based and action combat had their charm, but are different beasts if you ask me, and both can be a blast if they are properly done. That's why the battle director of DMC5 is such a good pick if XVI is going the action route, it may ensure the action is polished to be fun as it gets. While I do like ATB, I can see why some people may not like it and why it may take time to get used to, it's a weird in between between careful strategy and quick thinking, but you get used to the pace of it (and well, FFs usually do give the choice to disable it and simply use turns)

I don't know the details on Lightning's upgrade, there were talks on it because from what I understand there were statements of infinite timelines in XIII from what I understand. But, well, all FF revisions that were in talks seem to have vanished. Only VIII and X were completed.
 
Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
Hey, wasn't there a future upgrade planned for 2-A Lightning and Bhunivelze? I know I heard that was a thing before, but does anyone know anything about it?
Click to expand...
Like Tarta said most have been put on indefinite hold, but I do have a CRT in the works right now and making some Type-0 Profiles.
 
Seeing 2-A final fantasy brought up again, I wonder if the FFXIV Warrior of Light profile's still being worked on at this point, and to the degree we'll have to argue about the tiering for when that becomes relevant again.
 
FF might have plenty of 2-A statements, but XIV's are a bit more vague, simply due to how Savage works.

If we include Savage which, while technically not canon to the MSQ is still at least unlocked in side quests (as being fought using the Echo), then WoL has a Neo Exdeath and a pretty decent scaling chain above that into 2-A. If not, they'd be a lot weaker than that because the Cloud of Darkness isn't as strong as the actual one due to the one in XIV coming from a different void than the normal final fantasy void.

Then again, Omega in XIV has control over the same void as Exdeath does, so maybe regular and M/F still count for that. Who knows.

That being said, it is nice to have someone confirm that, yes, you do get continually stronger per opponent fought to a scary degree.

Also I didn't know it got posted :v
 
HST_Master said:
Like Tarta said most have been put on indefinite hold, but I do have a CRT in the works right now and making some Type-0 Profiles.
Click to expand...
This is sad.

If had played more of the series, and had a will to make more CRTs, I would help resurrect them from the dead.
 
HST_Master said:
Like Tarta said most have been put on indefinite hold, but I do have a CRT in the works right now and making some Type-0 Profiles.
Click to expand...
Dang, that's (as Warren said) pretty sad. I wish I played more FF games so I could help with CRT's because almost every single page is outdated.

I was hoping that Lightning and Shulk could have a somewhat even fight before Shulk becomes at least Low 1-C, but it's alright I guess.

I think @AshenCrow777 has plans for FFXV (one of the few FF games I have played and own, I still have to beat it even though I've owned it since launch, I just haven't because... reasons). I wonder if that's still happening.
 
I really wanted to be done for good with VII during 2020, but it was impossible with the crapfest that year was. And I already want to move on to IV already. I already played the original IV and covered Interlude and took notes on quite a lot of stuff to add and revise

After looking at other verses with several installments, I think one thing that could help out a lot in general could be looking for recurring elements that spread through the franchise and how they could affect profiles for everybody, for example Summons and the Void. Summons already have things like Shiva's Absolute Zero, Atomos' Matter Manipulation, Ifrit's Hellfire and such, but I've found stuff that could probably be added to other games, for example in VII they "trascend physical matter" which is a fancy way of saying "non-corporeal" but that, for example, could be a consistent way of adding Non-Physical Interaction for example.

Or for example, do are the basic properties of classes applicable to every game? What I was thinking, according to guidebooks on IV, Dark Knights in Baron like Cecil are trained to control the evil forces of their dark swords, so they won't turn into insane vicious killers, so they naturally resist Corruption and Madness Manipulation and the Darkness could be considered Unholy Manipulation. But would that be just a thing in IV or the lore repeats in other games?

@HST_Master Do you have blogs or links of your work? I'd really like to see it.
 
TartaChocholate said:
@HST_Master Do you have blogs or links of your work? I'd really like to see it.
Click to expand...
docs.google.com

Mass Final Fantasy CRT

This is gonna be a long one. So earlier crts have attempted to address the issue with Dissidia and it's validity for scaling. There have been 2 main points for this. The characters all scale to one another for no reason. Timeline Placement with blatantly dead characters running around. I'll b...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

I don't think it's finished yet but if it gets passed, it'll be big.

On the Dark Knight stuff, I'd say to look at the lore and see if it's consistent enough, because so far that seems to only be viable for the XIV Warrior of Light.

And yeah, me and Ashen were working on XV but we agreed to wait until the forum move on AP and only did Speed.
 
Well, I am in the same boat and I made this thread so I would say yes.

I like to think that FF fans aren't discriminatory like that.
 
I plan on revising FF4 in the future once I get some verses done. Nearly done with the After Years.
 
@Theglassman12 : Heyo, I have worked on it for a bit, but have only covered the Original Game and Interlude (tried to focus on getting stuff from those games before going into The After Years, due to its immense cast). Here's what I've been gathering so far:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Final Fantasy IV Revisions - Initial Drafts

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Also with the help of this, the Final Fantasy VI Settei Shiryō-hen: http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ff4comp.htm

Which is a translation of a what's essentially one of the FFIV Ultimanias before the companion books became Ultimanias per se.

Now, this is still a draft and rough ideas and all. So, anything missing or you feel is incorrect feel free to mention it.
 
So, uh... I know this comes as incredibly self-absorbed and making excuses, but wanted to apologize for the horribly piss poor way the recent Tier change of FFVII has been handled. Absensce aside, the whole thing was horribly rushed and incomplete and there are some glaring flaws that flew by that I should have considered before making CRT proper: having the frigging calc before making the frigging thread. I got too excited after CRTs were allowed again after the forums were made available once again, but yeah, doesn't justify such a poor decision.

At the very least the reasoning behind the upgrade could have been debated, accepted or rejected, but was there, but here's the other issue, the discussion itself was also rushed, a few people agreed with it and I just went with it. Okay to be fair, I did wait a month, but I didn't try to gather staff or start a proper discussion so the problem still stands: the issues in the reasoning for the upgrade were never discussed and solved.

And of course, leaving the whole thing hanging.

Thing is this: I did ask for a proper calc and gonna remake the CRT to close the whole issue, not to get the upgrade per se, but rather see if it was actually viable to begin with. Several important issues with the original proposal have been raised and I want to tackle them to see if it holds up or not, among them the original CRT was made when the ruling for Starry Skies was still lax enough that dimension with stars equaled 4-A without further context, something that has become much more strict after that.

Again, apologies for the trouble and confusion this has caused and the very lousy work at it.
 
Yeah let’s just say there’s a lot of stuff that would scale to the main cast in the after years, and I mean a LOT.

the 4-A stuff is mostly revised to be if the characters actually made it and if it’s from their power. Knowing FF7 I doubt it’s not from their power.
 
Yeah, such big playable cast and the many elements introduced with changes to even the original one makes it a big challenge in many regards.

I am having a bit of issue regarding the beginning of the After Years with the characters starting out. I mean, Ceodore and the rest scaling to end game/prime Cecil and co is no problem, but at the beginning Ceodore is still a knight apprentice and Biggs and Wedge were shown to be stronger while guiding him in his trial and all so I am iffy on scaling him to Kain. I could assume Kain has gotten rusty after losing his way and 20 years passing, but that's strictly and assumption on my end. Though, it IS mentioned that after Cecil and his friends defeated Zeromus peace returned to the world and he ruled the nation without conflicts, so maybe it's not so wild to assume he didn't actively fight and two decades later the party did lose their edge?

To be honest, the issue with the 4-A to 3-C stuff in VII is that the feat can actually be questioned. More precisely, Sephiroth causing an explosion that blasts the frig out of the Solar System is valid as the animation does show something of at least an equivalent magnitude and the Ultimania does openly confirm the explosion covers the entirety of the Solar System and many other guides do confirm Supernova as Sephiroth's Ultimate Move and as a real move of massive destructive power, so scaling to him and the cast in itself is no problem.
But the assumption it consumes the whole dimension and that is a 4-A to 3-C move has important cons: The animation of the International Version does not show an explosion of the magnitude to engulf the 3-C space (and unlike the 4-B, the distance from Jupiter to Pluto is a huge difference between the Earth and halfway to Andromeda), the Original Japanese Version is very vague as to what the explosion is engulfing with the animation itself as it could be a Galaxy or just a spiraling nebula. The entire proposal relies on the single statement from Dissidia which doesn't quite retroactively changes the power of the Supernova as it's still rather vague, as well as the other backup feat of the Knights of the Round which actually is confirmed to destroy their starry dimension, but that's the issue, it's a backup feat.

What grinds my gears in that regard is that Ultimanias, most of the time, don't give lore on the special moves, summons or other game elements. If they mention a super ultimate move from the game or such it will be a screenshot of the attack accompanied with "This is the Chocobo's ultimate move, press buttons on the menu to activate it, it will damage enemies"
 
I don’t really see how Kain would have lost his edge though. The last time we saw him in the original game he’s been training to get rid of his darkness. If anything that’s the exact opposite of being rusty, unless you’re talking about him losing to his dark self which isn’t really meant to be beaten to begin with? Kain and Cecil had to not fight much and accept their dark side to become stronger.
 
Also when I said there’s a lot of stuff that would scale to the main cast in after years, I meant the lore mentions some really busted shit for black mages. It’s honestly ridiculous
 
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