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Final Fantasy 16 discussion thread

sageof8paths said:
Umm lemme help u with the scaling
In base: Country Level
Ifrit armour (first fight in the rift): higher
Ultima prime: x3 times amp, he tanked the tri-disaster from ifrit, Phoenix and bahamut.

Multi-solar system, likely/possibly Uni+ with true power
Higher with flare: combines 6 giant orbs into one.
Ultima Risen: higher
Ultimalius: 16x stronger (fused with 15 other versions of himself)
6x stronger with flare again
Click to expand...
alr boys I’m just gonna come clean.

I think true power ultima is just blatantly Uni+ for numerous reasons.

He has sooo many 4d abilities and interacts with it on a regular

A portion of him can literally freeze time

Odin can cut space-time

In ultima’s boss fight he literally cuts the space-time continuum on the ground numerous times.

Can create dimensions beyond space and time

With said dimensions having red shifts implying it’s an expanding universe, we literally see it’s origin in the boss fight

I think he’s consistently implied to have 4d ap

I’m pretty sure it’s stated that mythos limitless/infinite power(or something like that) but ultima is still dumbfounded by how he’s losing after many amps implying he thought he was greater than infinity.

Omega also blatantly has 2-c feats even though ultima should be the peak of the verse
 
Btw, there's an ongoing debate to know if Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonist if not the strongest (general consensus is that Lightning and XIV protagonist at least are much stronger and Noctis is either weaker or on a similar level but not higher, opinion is mixed for other protagonists)
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Btw, there's an ongoing debate to know if Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonist if not the strongest (general consensus is that Lightning and XIV protagonist at least are much stronger and Noctis is either weaker or on a similar level but not higher, opinion is mixed for other protagonists)
Click to expand...
In terms of how casual audiences see it I can see why he'd be up there, but with everything taken into account he's in the lower half of FF protagonists. AP wise you could argue he's in the upper half but really it's the speed and lack of resistances that let him down.

If we took Low 2-C Clive and put him against Sephiroth while sticking with the 3-B low end for Sephy, Clives still getting stomped.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Btw, there's an ongoing debate to know if Clive is one of the strongest FF protagonist if not the strongest (general consensus is that Lightning and XIV protagonist at least are much stronger and Noctis is either weaker or on a similar level but not higher, opinion is mixed for other protagonists)
Click to expand...
Are we just talking about the main numbered protags and are spinoffs included too? Because Jack Garland is pretty much Clive but on whole other level.
Dust_Collector said:
In terms of how casual audiences see it I can see why he'd be up there, but with everything taken into account he's in the lower half of FF protagonists. AP wise you could argue he's in the upper half but really it's the speed and lack of resistances that let him down.

If we took Low 2-C Clive and put him against Sephiroth while sticking with the 3-B low end for Sephy, Clives still getting stomped.
Click to expand...
That too, for example Bartz is the first FF protag to establish beyond Low 2-C FF (FFI to FFIV all got retroactively buffed by expanded lore and remakes much later on) yet compare a retro turn based JRPG to FFxDMC and which game do you think most people will find more impressive?
 
Ok so was gonna make a post in the Q&A board to ask what the standards for creating a place beyond time and space is since there ain't nothing about it on the creation feats page but the wiki is being dumb and not letting me post it. It starts loading like it will but then it doesn't.

Main concern is the fact that we don't really have a good idea of how big the rift is so not sure if that makes it unquantifiable for AP (Unless we wanna say that it's as big as the space between worlds the Typhon and Final Ultima Fights take place in, which maybe makes sense because the rift is also called a rift "between worlds" idk).
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Are we just talking about the main numbered protags and are spinoffs included too? Because Jack Garland is pretty much Clive but on whole other level.
Click to expand...
All protagonists. Jack was not mentionned that often from what I've seen but the few times he was, most agree he's far stronger, though other times people admit they wish Clive was stronger simply because they didn't like what the game did to FFI lore and Garland (even though Opera Omnia confirmed Stranger of Paradise is basically an alternate timeline)
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
That too, for example Bartz is the first FF protag to establish beyond Low 2-C FF (FFI to FFIV all got retroactively buffed by expanded lore and remakes much later on) yet compare a retro turn based JRPG to FFxDMC and which game do you think most people will find more impressive?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's the usual stuff. It's why a lot of people think Kratos is simply around continental to planet level at best whereas the lore makes it clear he's far above. Difference between what you see on-screen and the actual story
 
Dust_Collector said:
In terms of how casual audiences see it I can see why he'd be up there, but with everything taken into account he's in the lower half of FF protagonists. AP wise you could argue he's in the upper half but really it's the speed and lack of resistances that let him down.

If we took Low 2-C Clive and put him against Sephiroth while sticking with the 3-B low end for Sephy, Clives still getting stomped.
Click to expand...
I mean, even excluding Sephiroth (who is one of the most OP and dangerous FF characters anyway and has apparently never used his full power anyway), an antagonist like pre-death Mateus would body before-Barnabas-defeat Clive anyway.
I would also say hax is a problem for Clive. I mean, he has some impressive shit but the vast majority of FF characters have greater and wider hax, like Zack. He gets much better after Ultima but even then, it's not in higher half. Even the first game FFXIII cast has a greater hax arsenal despite being weaker
 
Dust_Collector said:
Ok so was gonna make a post in the Q&A board to ask what the standards for creating a place beyond time and space is since there ain't nothing about it on the creation feats page but the wiki is being dumb and not letting me post it. It starts loading like it will but then it doesn't.

Main concern is the fact that we don't really have a good idea of how big the rift is so not sure if that makes it unquantifiable for AP (Unless we wanna say that it's as big as the space between worlds the Typhon and Final Ultima Fights take place in, which maybe makes sense because the rift is also called a rift "between worlds" idk).
Click to expand...
Problem is we need a clear statement to justify the tier, I thought we had something to justify tier 2 anyway
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
I mean, even excluding Sephiroth (who is one of the most OP and dangerous FF characters anyway and has apparently never used his full power anyway), an antagonist like pre-death Mateus would body before-Barnabas-defeat Clive anyway.
I would also say hax is a problem for Clive. I mean, he has some impressive shit but the vast majority of FF characters have greater and wider hax, like Zack. He gets much better after Ultima but even then, it's not in higher half. Even the first game FFXIII cast has a greater hax arsenal despite being weaker
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty much. Ap wise Clive can hang with some of the big boys and girls, but everything else he falls way behind. Can't do a whole lot when everyone else resist everything you do and can inflict instant death hax before you realise they've even moved an inch.

ArkhamDC06 said:
Problem is we need a clear statement to justify the tier, I thought we had something to justify tier 2 anyway
Click to expand...
Statement itself is clear-ish enough, main issue is if the rift is big enough for it to matter. Mostly just trying to find out to flesh out the Low 2-C high end for Ultima beyond Omega scaling.
 
A reminder we've got four main numbered FFs in a row that got massive power-creep from DLCs and expansions:

*FFXIII peaked at low 5-B but after XIII-2 and LR got buffed to 2-A.

*FFXIV (ARR) peaked at 2-C but after several expansions got buffed to at least 2-A with the potential to get even stronger.

*FFXV peaked at High 6-A (with arguments for planet level) then with DLC/canon crossovers got buffed to 2-A (notice a pattern?).

*FFXVI peaked at High 6-A to 4-A with the possibility of tier 2 scaling, then with DLC got buffed with a concrete low 2-C feat.

For reference FFX was the last main numbered game not to reach tier 2 (barring Dissida scaling).
 
Dust_Collector said:
Ok so was gonna make a post in the Q&A board to ask what the standards for creating a place beyond time and space is since there ain't nothing about it on the creation feats page but the wiki is being dumb and not letting me post it. It starts loading like it will but then it doesn't.

Main concern is the fact that we don't really have a good idea of how big the rift is so not sure if that makes it unquantifiable for AP (Unless we wanna say that it's as big as the space between worlds the Typhon and Final Ultima Fights take place in, which maybe makes sense because the rift is also called a rift "between worlds" idk).
Click to expand...
The rift is
1. Stated beyond space and time
2. Starry omnidirectional sky
3. Redshift nebula implying an expanding universe
4. If u want I could post it in the q/a section for u.
 
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