Fiamma of the Right vs The Dovahkiin

[StrongClick]

You will have to read the profile KingKong if you wanna understand something, that's where all those things are outlined.

 

[KongKing23]

I mean there is almost an infinite number of ways for Dovah to stomp. At this point, we spitefully think any possibility to hopelessly torture Fiamma.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The Dovahkiin's range should be up to Planetary, yeah, scalling from the Greybeards shaking Nirn with their Voice, so "uh, he can't hit Fiamma" is not a valid argument whatsoever.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because The Hunter isn't The Prisoner.

you're right he's the patient and that's better

 

[Malox1696]

After this, the mods definitely need to conduct revisions or discussions on To Aru. The HR thing, while unclarified, sounds stupidly NLF with no definite feat as well as Imagine Breaker and magic nullification. People here have try to argue HR is something like GER, but I don't see any light into it.

it's just the to aru magic system that is broken, take for example areuluss, as along as he believes something he can make it true or the blasting rod that just x10 forever and can scale from it self, there are instant death spells etc is just that they can be countered just as easily as they are made (make tier 1 spell, make counter for it) another example is a 11-D cutting spell vs an all cutting spell in to aru, as both have the same propety in magic even if the other is much more powerfull they just cancel out

as along as it follow certain condition it will work

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Dovahkiin's range should be up to Planetary, yeah, scalling from the Greybeards shaking Nirn with their Voice, so "uh, he can't hit Fiamma" is not a valid argument whatsoever.

Ye

 

[Malox1696]

it is much more than planetary but at the right tier, please we are doing the 6a stop using higher tier equipment or feats, or it's pretty much useless to divide him in tier if he can use anything in every stage and always have max range

 

[StrongClick]

I'm seeing a lot of tier 1 stuff thrown around despite not showing it on profile. If that's the case than this is just a stomp/bad match.

 

[Malox1696]

@ KongKing23 rather than reworking to aru pages, rework the dova page with the equipment power and the right range, and remove early/mid/late game as he can acquire anything at any stage of the game (even from lvl1)

 

[Malox1696]

If we use the tier 6A profile with tier 6A equipment it's a stomp for fiamma

If we use the higher tier equipment and higher tier dova it's obv. a stomp in his favor

there is not much to argue

 

[StrongClick]

I agree. This is interesting though, I wonder who could be a good match for Dova without having to nerf his arsenal?

 

[Malox1696]

Someone who is in the same tier as him and has some resistance when he has all his equipment, so another tier 2, but don't pick thought based reality warper as they would probably lead to a stomp

 

[KongKing23]

@ KongKing23 rather than reworking to aru pages, rework the dova page with the equipment power and the right range, and remove early/mid/late game as he can acquire anything at any stage of the game (even from lvl1)

The only rework for that page is to add Conceptual manipulation for Dovah. The Prisoner metaphysic basically enables a composite monster uses all options at once. Standard equipment is not affected by Tier system, and the metaphysic allows Dov can acquire them at level 1.

 

[Malox1696]

The only rework for that page is to add Conceptual manipulation for Dovah. The Prisoner metaphysic basically enables a composite monster uses all options at once. Standard equipment is not affected by Tier system, and the metaphysic allows Dov can acquire them at level 1.

u know how stupid that sound right ? by ur logic if we put a human with fist vs a man inside a tank it's fair cause EQUIPMENT IS NOT AFFECTED BY TIER

and even in the tier system it says WEAPONS

and on profiles too is specified if equipment rises one tier, look at Link (form zelda), other to aru pages, etc

ex: Solar System level (Well above the likes of Majora and Demise, as well as Ganondorf with the complete Triforce's power), higher with rings, upgrades and/or the full Triforce

Tier: 10-A physically, 9-C with firearms, 9-A with missile launcher

 

[StrongClick]

All the possible weapons and artifacts Dovahkiin could acquire could probably be listed in a blog or on the profile along with what they do like other verses too. That would help a lot and would avoid mismatches like this.

 

[KongKing23]

Hax Equipments of TES are not permanent as they will disappear eventually. Those equipments only apply for people can hold onto them forever.

 

[Malox1696]

yes but they should be listed so people can actaully know what they do why do u think ther is both a weapons category and the note at the end of the characther page

think if people who knows nothing about TES and would like to know how the artifacts work/do

do they have to go off site ?

and how they they know what he can use

 

[Paul_Frank]

The problem is that most people making dovahkiin matches don't really know what he can do or what his equipment does so they just give him everything so yeah I feel like a breakdown should be on his profile

 

[KongKing23]

I don't have time to repeat what I and Matthew have said. Just read our posts again.

The idea remains that people should be aware of certain hax in TES from now on. However, it would contradict against the Prisoner metaphysic violating the site rules.

 

[Malox1696]

Only the people who participated in this thread will know u need to make something on his profile

even i who played some elder scroll game don't know all the artifact and how they change with the lore form game play u can't expect people to just know it cause u know that's why we have profiles

 

[StrongClick]

Uh.. that's not how it works. People don't need to be aware unless it is referenced on the profile in some way.

 

[Malox1696]

btw can someone call a mod and close this mess of a thread

 

[WHYNAUT]

Matthew is a mod and this thread is not getting closed.

 

[Malox1696]

Considering if we count the higher tier artifact it's a stomp for dova OBV. and if we don't it's a stomp for fiamma cause it's the tier 6A form i think it should be closed (as i said 2 days ago)

and considering the direction of the thread in general: downplaying, some spite,infra-tier, people saying that fiamma wins with one shoot but it's not a stomp and people saying dova is far above him in everything and can't be beaten and it's not a stomp (even if done by a mod himself they are not above rules) and considering some people are even saying that some ability could not be written as the site doesn't allow them

 

[Paul_Frank]

None of what anyone has said has explained to me what the dragonborn does to actually hit fiamma from across the earth when someone explains this I can accept a dovahkiin victory but the arguments so far have boiled down to Thu'um is more impressive than hr

I just want to reiterate this because as stated dovahkiin only has 1-b range with non combative Thu'um And nothing else on his profile shows planetary range especially not in this key
So

For the third time

What does dovahkiin hit him with

Also yeah the dragonborn needs to have higher tier stuff restricted in future matches a 6-A fighting a 6-A with 1-C gear is generally viewed as unfair especially when said gear nulls everything that the other character can do (even though if I remember correctly fiamma helped fight 1-C magic gods but okay) that's why reinhard gets llt restricted or gil gets ea restricted

The scenario you guys are describing is a stomp not a decisive win

 

[XDragnoir]

yes, say that equipment, armor, etc. do not earn a proper tier is quite wrong, for example, the SCP-1440 is Unknown, but with some equipment he turns 1B, Aleister is High 1C only with BR, Mikoto have a whole key to other equipment, and you can not forget the Fateverse, in which practically all the characters have something that increases their tier.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If this thread continues to be such a mass I'll probably close it.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I mean there is almost an infinite number of ways for Dovah to stomp. At this point, we spitefully think any possibility to hopelessly torture Fiamma.

It's defijitely not a stomp. At best Dovy High diffs.

 

[Malox1696]

It's defijitely not a stomp. At best Dovy High diffs.

he is counting the higher tier equipment so he is right

 

[Paul_Frank]

I mean there is almost an infinite number of ways for Dovah to stomp. At this point, we spitefully think any possibility to hopelessly torture Fiamma.

It's defijitely not a stomp. At best Dovy High diffs.

The argument for dovahkiin is that saviors hide nulls holy right completely(doubt this but still) which means fiamma can't win

At all

 

[Malox1696]

The argument for dovahkiin is that saviors hide nulls holy right completely(doubt this but still) which means fiamma can't win

At all

that was not the argument, the argument was by matthew using both his 2c ability and equipment, as through the status as "prisoner" he will encompass every possibility at the same time which, again, counts the higher tier equipment and abilities

and that magic is to aru is inferior cause "it just is" by his own word, when they are pretty similar as both work by reality warping

this not counting people saying that as he is the prisoner and encompass all possibility if he has 1% chance of win he will still always win, and they even stated that the ability is against the site rules, so they can't add it but is counted as argument here for "reason" again

 

[StrongClick]

Yea this should have been closed as a stomp.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Okay this is derailing kinda but

If you guys want to argue prisoner metaphysics you have to make a crt and put that on the profile currently being the prisoner is giving acausality so you need to make a crt for it

Granting precog

Giving the character a 100% win right against anyone in their tier through picking the single chance they have at victory over any more likely scenario, which is the exact opposite of how we do debates here

Giving the character the ability to wield every single item and spell at any tier all at once allowing a 6-A dragonborn to be as strong as his 2-C self in every way besides his ap with his fists

In addition the profiles of all main game tes protagonist need to list the daedric and aedric artifacts and what they do so that op can restrict them if needed altough that goes against prisoner metaphysics

Essentially right currently you are arguing a point based on something that doesn't exist on the profile meaning all votes for the dragonborn based on he is the prisoner are invalid

A crt is needed for something like this and if said crt goes through that tes characters literally can't have fights with anyone in their tier as anyone in the same tier as their lower keys gets stomped via lol low 1-C artifacts and anyone above them stomps via lol I'm actually 1-C

Tl;Dr make a crt for prisoner metaphysics working as described in this thread and add the needed abilities to the profile until this is done any vote based off of he's the prisoner is invalid as its not reflected by the profile

This match is a mismatch either way either you restrict higher tier stuff and fiamma stomps or you give the dragonborn everything and he stomps

 

[Malox1696]

Although @Matthew Schroeder i would like to ask a single question, why is fiamma feats treated as a NLF when the limits are there (6A) and both the narration, the events and the character explain how it works but the concept of "The prisoner" who is based itself on statement by narrator and characters is ok (not that i should be removed i just want to ask what's so different about them)

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's not actually how it works and it is already on the profiles. But I agree that all of the spells / artifacts should be listed on all of the protagonists or at least a link to them, tho it's not that big of a problem since you can google them easly and they are refrenced on the profile.

 

[Paul_Frank]

That's not actually how it works and it is already on the profiles. But I agree that all of the spells / artifacts should be listed on all of the protagonists or at least a link to them, tho it's not that big of a problem since you can google them easly and they are refrenced on the profile.

I know that's not how it works but in this thread and a few others that's how people are arguing prisoner metaphysics work

It literally says on the profile they are an impossipoint and walk all paths at once this gives them acausality and according to the profile literally nothing else

 

[Malox1696]

they are not referenced on the profile there is no artifact there

 

[Ogbunabali]

I was talking about the precog thing. But the whole argument about "what does he start first with" is irrelevant.

Mate Standard Equipment: Variable. Numerous weapons, armors, relics and items acquired throughout their journey

 

[Paul_Frank]

I was talking about the precog thing. But the whole argument about "what does he start first with" is irrelevant.
Mate Standard Equipment: Variable. Numerous weapons, armors, relics and items acquired throughout their journey

Son saying numerous relics doesn't at all explain daedric or aedric relics or explain how they work or the fact that they are almost all way too high of a tier to be used in a fair fight against anyone in a tier lower than 2-C

 

[Malox1696]

okay dude i think for ultra powerful artifact that give an ap or dura boost or soem sort of RW power should be listed or at least named on the list, imagine if link just said standarrd equipment leaving auto the master sword or iron man SE: suit of armor

obv the junk u find with no notable power don't need to be written but the artificat with significant power should