Fiamma of the Right vs The Dovahkiin

[Paul_Frank]

One last thing before I drop the loadout thing is

If we don't restrict equipment then we end up with infinite possibilities for a match we literally can't debate infinite possibilities that's why we do the most likely case but an unrestricted tes protagonist has all cases equally likely so since a match like that can't be debated we have to restrict stuff or else you can always argue a scenario in which either the tes protagonist wins or the TES protagonist loses and they are both equally valid

 

[TacticalNuke002]

If there's a possibility of the Dovahkiin winning despite Fiamma's best efforts, he does just that due to his Prisoner metaphysics.

 

[Malox1696]

Actually there haven't been any scans showing that. There were scans describing "how op this guy is", but nothing like you suggest.

SchroKatzealready pasted the scans (they are from a novel so there is no img obv)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I did see his posts, but the scans were more just talking about how awesome Fiamma is without much feats to back it up. Specially not to the extent that he will bypass all speed, time and space.

 

[Ogbunabali]

What Matt said. The things posted here was nothing more to describe that he is the most powerful guy in the verse, not in any point was there anything suggesting he is above speed, space, power, etc. That's just NLF, at most you can argue it's Law Manipulation, but it isn't on his profile so he doesn't have it. If you think other wise you should make a CRT.

 

[Paul_Frank]

None of what anyone has said has explained to me what the dragonborn does to actually hit fiamma from across the earth when someone explains this I can accept a dovahkiin victory but the arguments so far have boiled down to Thu'um is more impressive than hr

 

[Ogbunabali]

Short answer it is. Long answer scroll up and read what Matt has posted, he explains it in detail.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mean, there's Thu'um with Low 1-C and High 1-B range.

 

[Malox1696]

ok let's make this clear u are saying that we should follow the canon of skyrim byt the books right ? wich all have stament about the narrator so that's accepted right ?

 

[Malox1696]

I mean, there's Thu'um with Low 1-C and High 1-B range.

we are using the dova 6 a version obv

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Still you have stuff like the Greybeards with their planetary-range shout.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Does being an Impossipoint mean he can use Auriel's Bow in one hand, the Staff of Magnus in the other hand, Molag Bal's Mace in the other other hand, Spell Breaker in the other other other hand, and Auriel's Shield in his other other other other hand all at the same time?

 

[WHYNAUT]

I need someone to draw Dovahkiin with all his equipment on now, that sounds hilarious.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Still you have stuff like the Greybeards with their planetary-range shout.

The range stat on the dragonborns profile specifically says he doesn't have planetary range and he only has high hyperversal range with non combative Thu'um so there's that

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I need someone to draw Dovahkiin with all his equipment on now, that sounds hilarious.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Inb4 Zorro. A daedric weapon in his mouth and in between his fingers and toes like wolverine claws.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There is actually a canonical explanation for why the equipment they carry is so large.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mounts#Flame Atronach Wolf

"An oversized Flame Atronach Wolf makes for an impressive mount," wrote arch-conjurer Corvus Direnni, "but it's inconvenient to house such a steed in flammable stables. When I'm not riding mine, I temporarily lodge it in a pocket realm Adjacent Place."
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Loremaster_Celarus

Vestige: "How many libraries and archives do you have here?"
Celarus: "Eight hundred and sixty-three at last count. Not including the Ritemaster's personal collection, of course. Don't trouble yourself looking for them. Many of them exist in quasi-planes and hermetic mind-spheres. It helps keep things tidy."
Powerful mages can create pocket dimensions just to store their stuff in.

 

[WHYNAUT]

That was always my headcanon which turns out to be canon.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So standard equipment doesn't matter because he always had all his equipment?

 

[Malox1696]

what i love about all this argument is how it goes like this:

JAPANASE use flowery language in novel so it does not count or is NLF

we should follow the lore not the game mechanics and im ok with that but so u should do the same about To aru too when the narration states so

and we are using 6A version so too powerful artifact are banned

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

That post reminds me of Kratos putting the Amulet of Uroborus inside his ass

Explains why he carries so much weapons

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Dovah FRA

 

[Malox1696]

the only real argument made here is: HR is NLF and if it wasn't NLF it would still be less powerful than dova, cause of reasons

that to aru magic is inferior/ non comparable to TES

using equipment that would bump his tier, both dura or power, which should not be used if it's just tier 6a

and again trying to show that to aru magic system is inferior to TES, when literary everyone in to aru who has magic can reach MG (tier 1c) just by learning and performing the right ritual

this is a stomp and should have been closed long ago similar to all the other fiamma spam thread (and espeacially now that CTR is ongoing making most fights invalid)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"that to aru magic is inferior/ non comparable to TES"

It objectively is.

"using equipment that would bump his tier, both dura or power, which should not be used if it's just tier 6a"

Equipment isn't physical AP and the Dovahkiin has access to his equipment.

"and again trying to show that to aru magic system is inferior to TES, when literary everyone in to aru who has magic can reach MG (tier 1c) just by learning and performing the right ritual"

Big deal, and theoretically everyone in TES can become 1-A by understanding the universe and reaching CHIM. Theoreticals are not practicals that actually apply to a discussion. The number of 1-Cs in ToAru is very small.

 

[Malox1696]

"that to aru magic is inferior/ non comparable to TES"
It objectively is.

"using equipment that would bump his tier, both dura or power, which should not be used if it's just tier 6a"

Equipment isn't physical AP and the Dovahkiin has access to his equipment.

"and again trying to show that to aru magic system is inferior to TES, when literary everyone in to aru who has magic can reach MG (tier 1c) just by learning and performing the right ritual"

Big deal, and theoretically everyone in TES can become 1-A by understanding the universe and reaching CHIM. Theoreticals are not practicals that actually apply to a discussion. The number of 1-Cs in ToAru is very small.

explain to me why is it inferior again ?

i guess a normal human using a gun is still the same tier as before i guess

it is practical that why sometimes they even spawn at random, magic hunt where and are a thing and all knowledge is sealed/poisonous for obvious reasons


very small ? 10 are confirmed but each religion has at least 1 and there were many other left unnamed

 

[FateAlbane]

"that to aru magic is inferior/ non comparable to TES"
It objectively is.

Shots fired.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Just want to point out that there are far more 1-Cs in to aru than there are chim users in tes other than that carry on

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes, that is very small compared to the potentially infinite number of High 1-B / 1-A Et'Ada.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Stop with the d-measuring.

 

[Paul_Frank]

None of what anyone has said has explained to me what the dragonborn does to actually hit fiamma from across the earth when someone explains this I can accept a dovahkiin victory but the arguments so far have boiled down to Thu'um is more impressive than hr

I just want to reiterate this because as stated dovahkiin only has 1-b range with non combative Thu'um And nothing else on his profile shows planetary range

 

[KongKing23]

Thank you, Matt for participating. I am not sure that the OP counted as I voted Dovah in the beginning.

Another stomp scenario is much quicker than we thought: Skeleton Key.

Dovah just has it in his pocket or elsewhere. Hero simply thinks that "I am going to win", and poof Fiamma either loses his power taken by Dovah or becomes a whiny brat lost will to fight. If HR is NLF, then Skeleton Key is the greater NLF for once it successfully stole the power of a 1-C God.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'll count your vote, just making sure.

 

[Malox1696]

we are talking about the system not the universe, to aru is limited by the universe itself as instead of having the theoretical multiverse they just run on 1 that is infinite (think of it like a projector u just can't have multiple stories running at the same time but u can still have infinite storage for them)

the degree of freedom and reality warping power that to aru gives is just stupid and broken, u can even have a fine-tuned spell to kill tier 1 c used by tier 9 as along as u follow/create a specific set of rule it will work there are no limitations, and this creates problem in universe but that's another topic

hell human can affect MG even involuntarily as it happened to "the forgotten god" as he became like a stick man cause everyone was misinterpreting his phase/feat with the chutulus mythos

 

[Malox1696]

Thank you, Matt for participating. I am not sure that the OP counted as I voted Dovah in the beginning.
Another stomp scenario is much quicker than we thought: Skeleton Key.

Dovah just has it in his pocket or elsewhere. Hero simply thinks that "I am going to win", and poof Fiamma either loses his power taken by Dovah or becomes a whiny brat lost will to fight. If HR is NLF, then Skeleton Key is the greater NLF for once it successfully stole the power of a 1-C God.

than that's 1 c thought as i sad fiamma is limited to 6a if u put him against someone more powerful HR just doesn't work (more technically HR it self has tier 1c potential but his recipient can only contain so much power so that's why he is where he is, he doesn't have infinite space to contain infinite power)

 

[KongKing23]

After this, the mods definitely need to conduct revisions or discussions on To Aru. The HR thing, while unclarified, sounds stupidly NLF with no definite feat as well as Imagine Breaker and magic nullification. People here have try to argue HR is something like GER, but I don't see any light into it.

 

[StrongClick]

I'm seeing a lot of tier 1 stuff thrown around despite not showing it on profile. If that's the case than this is just a stomp/bad match.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Ok wait hold up I was just thinking about ot but how come the dragonborn gets to have all equipment in any of his keys meanwhile the hunter from bloodborne isn't allowed to have the chikage in his early game key

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

People here have try to argue HR is something like GER, but I don't see any light into it.

wats with GER being an NLF tho, it's power is pretty easy to counter.

 

[KongKing23]

Ok wait hold up I was just thinking about ot but how come the dragonborn gets to have all equipment in any of his keys meanwhile the hunter from bloodborne isn't allowed to have the chikage in his early game key

Because The Hunter isn't The Prisoner.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Here's how Dovah wins. He turns ethereal while using Skull of Corruption to summon a bloodlusted clone of Fiamma. Fiamma attacks from the other side of the planet but doesn't affect him, meanwhile his clone attacks him and kills him.