Fate/Grand Order: Upgrade to three servants

[Expectro2000xxx]

This is to adjust the tier of some servants because of their NP.

Raikou should be Low 6-B with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven. Simple, her NP was buffed to Rank A+ time ago, so she should be Low 6-B while using her NP.

Her Mana Burst is Rank A, same rank as the MB of Mordred that buff Clarent to the point of transform it from a Rank C NP to a Rank A+, and while the MB of Mordred is special for coming from her dragon blood, the MB of Raikou come from the blood of Indra. This is basically to show in the profile that MB is a buff big enough to have a mention.

Her Mystery Killer is another big buff against supernatural things, a buff at the level of the Dragon Slayer A of Siegfried, so should also be mentioned in the profile.

Her Eternal Arms Mastery is also A+ and the profile just say A, while in that I also think it should be added the Genji Arms Mastery Ex, we don't have canon info of the skill but since is a the upgraded version of her Eternal Arms Mastery A+ should be better.

In short, Raikou tier should be 6-C, higher against mystical things with Mystery Killer, higher with Mana Burst, Low 6-B with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven.

Quetz should be upgraded, Xiuhcoatl is Rank EX which make it above the Low 6-B currently used for Rank A+ and it's said that Xiuhcoatl replicate the cataclysmic impact that killed Earth, so High 6-B, possible High 6-A with it. The same apply to her Ruler counterpart.

Nero, with Imperial Privilege she can learn almost any skill, so she can obtain things like Mana Burst and others so, so her tier I think should be something like: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Laus Saint Claudius and Fax Caelestis.

 

[Newendigo]

She could have Low 6-B with the final attack she used at the end of her NP, but not physically Low 6-B while using it.

It's refering her as duplicating herself, using the four weapons of her companions, not that she is physically become stronger.

Dunno about the other two.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

She could have Low 6-B with the final attack she used at the end of her NP, but not physically Low 6-B while using it.

It's refering her as duplicating herself, using the four weapons of her companions, not that she is physically become stronger.

Dunno about the other two.

I thought in contest that three parts of her NP are physical attacks and that the lightning at the end isn't that important, but after searching more about it seem like the final lightning is the main part of the attack, so I can accept that while using it she isn't physically Low 6-B.

 

[Mageman460]

She should scale to the NP value of the weapon she uses tbh. Though afaik we only know Kintoki and Tsuna's NP values, which are C- and A respectively.

 

[Mageman460]

As for Quetz, I agree.

Does Nero ever use Mana Burst? And if Nero gets higher, then shouldn't other Imperial Privelage users like Romulus and Ozymandias?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

If Nero gets higher, then shouldn't other Imperial Privelage users like Romulus and Ozymandias?

Actually, yeah, the Imperial Privelage users should also have higher with it.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Question, imperial privelage are only work for the skills and not working for an abilities/technique?

As for Raikou weapons in her NP, i thinking the scaling on it might be work too, but i'm still unsure

Maybe we need to looked at Raikou mats again about her how her NP work again, and maybe the feats she was done in Heian-Kyo can be counted too

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Question, imperial privelage are only work for the skills and not working for an abilities/technique?

From what I finded some time ago seem like in a point Nero obtained the Bajiquan of Li Shuwen.

As for Raikou weapons in her NP, i thinking the scaling on it might be work too, but i'm still unsure

Maybe we need to looked at Raikou mats again about her how her NP work again, and maybe the feats she was done in Heian-Kyo can be counted too

The main part of the attack is the final lightning, the battle against Suzuka in Fox Tail make that clear, however, each clone should scale (both in AP and abilities) to the NP of the weapon they use. We only know the NP of Kintoki and Tsuna and both are Rank C, so it can be assumed that the other two weapons are also NP of Rank C.

Gozu Tennou, who is the source of Raikou’s demonic nature/strange form, has his divine messenger, the ox (or possibly the Ushi-Oni), temporarily summoned by Raikou, and Raikou eradicates the enemy camp together with this being. The armaments that materialize by means of thunder are the weapons that symbolize the souls of her subordinates – the Four Heavenly Kings. By taking in the sublimation of Raikou’s episode where she exterminated the powerful Ushi-Oni, the destructive power of the divine messenger also rises above its original might.

The description in the materials isn't really specific, maybe when materials about Heian-Kyo come out there are more details. In my case I still haven't see Heian-Kyo (though I'm planning to do it) so I don't know what feats Raikou have there.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

From what I finded some time ago seem like in a point Nero obtained the Bajiquan of Li Shuwen.

I see, but does it has limitation? I afraid peoples will claim it as NLF

The main part of the attack is the final lightning, the battle against Suzuka in Fox Tail make that clear, however, each clone should scale (both in AP and abilities) to the NP of the weapon they use. We only know the NP of Kintoki and Tsuna and both are Rank C, so it can be assumed that the other two weapons are also NP of Rank C.

That mean each clones can't used the weapons true NP (Golden Spark for example), getcha

I also invited Shadow and Crimson to come for evaluating the revision, but for now i agree with the CRT

Well then, time for me to spam Raikou Mama matches after this

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I see, but does it has limitation? I afraid peoples will claim it as NLF

At EX the only limitations seems to be that they can only obtain skills related to things they are proficient and that skills really specific of the legen of a servant can't be adquired, for example, Bajiquan can be obtained because is a series of martial arts, but things like for example Thrice-Setting Sun is probably something that others user of Imperial Privilege can't obtain, though something more general like Battle Continuation can be learned.

That mean each clones can't used the weapons true NP (Golden Spark for example), getcha

Maybe she could also use them? We would need confirmation about that, the only thing sure is that the basic NP Rank C (the weapon itself) is utilized and special characteristics that they have like the fire and pressure to oni of the sword of Tsuna can also be used.

Well then, time for me to spam Raikou Mama matches after this

No joke, the main reason of this, aside from the obvious fact of correct her tier, is was because I thought in a match but the other part is physically Low 6-B, sadly seem that now I need to find another opponent.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

We don't use FGO skill rank up unless they are from Interludes that awknowledge the strengthing of the skill or Noble Phantasm (See: Lip's interlude). I don't know if that's the case for Raikou.

Quetz thing is fine, her Ruler NP is also said to be on the level if the meteor that killed the dinosaurs so that's okay.

Nero thing should be fine. (I'm actually putting together a list of what people with Imperial Privilege, Natural Born Genius and similar skills should give, for a CRT later)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

that skills really specific of the legen of a servant can't be adquired, for example, Bajiquan can be obtained because is a series of martial arts, but things like for example Thrice-Setting Sun is probably something that others user of Imperial Privilege can't obtain, though something more general like Battle Continuation can be learned

A bit complicated tbh, but i get it now

Maybe she could also use them? We would need confirmation about that, the only thing sure is that the basic NP Rank C (the weapon itself) is utilized and special characteristics that they have like the fire and pressure to oni of the sword of Tsuna can also be used.

I think the value of Tsuna's and Kintoki's weapon would be reduced, remember she just wield them and not the owner

No joke, the main reason of this, aside from the obvious fact of correct her tier, is was because I thought in a match but the other part is physically Low 6-B, sadly seem that now I need to find another opponent.

The Low 6-B only for her NP and final blow from her NP, right? Also lucky me as i got at least two combatants for Raikou

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We don't use FGO skill rank up unless they are from Interludes that awknowledge the strengthing of the skill or Noble Phantasm (See: Lip's interlude). I don't know if that's the case for Raikou.

I think the rank up for Raikou should'nt be used for now, since it has no explanation of it

Beside that i agreed with you, otherwise Balmung would be a 6-A for no reason because lul EX Rank

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Gotta sleep now, would looked at this thread later in morning

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

We don't use FGO skill rank up unless they are from Interludes that awknowledge the strengthing of the skill or Noble Phantasm (See: Lip's interlude). I don't know if that's the case for Raikou.

I'm not sure if the case of Raikou was that, but her NP was upgraded a bit before of Heian-Kyo and in Heian-Kyo the playable servant I think used the A+ version, so I think in this case should be alright to use it because of be related to a chapter of story.

Beside that i agreed with you, otherwise Balmung would be a 6-A for no reason because lul EX Rank

To be fair, the two feats of Balmung are from before the NP was upgraded to EX, in Apocrypha it was A+ and in Septem when added it was A+, after them it was upgraded to EX, so unless there are another feat for himself after become EX, the most safest things to scale him are his feats when A+.

I think the value of Tsuna's and Kintoki's weapon would be reduced, remember she just wield them and not the owner

I mean, the weapons themself are Rank C, just that Kintoki and Tsuna have their own NP aside using the weapon, and the sword of Tsuna for example is originally from the Genji clan, Raikou herself was the one that give it to Tsuna, so there don't are a reason as to why the rank of the weapon decrease in her hands.

Nero thing should be fine. (I'm actually putting together a list of what people with Imperial Privilege, Natural Born Genius and similar skills should give, for a CRT later)

Cool, that would be a lot of help, any idea of when more or less the crt would be?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Maybe a month from now.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm not sure if the case of Raikou was that, but her NP was upgraded a bit before of Heian-Kyo and in Heian-Kyo the playable servant I think used the A+ version, so I think in this case should be alright to use it because of be related to a chapter of story.

I'm still unsure about that, any evidence on it?

I mean, the weapons themself are Rank C, just that Kintoki and Tsuna have their own NP aside using the weapon, and the sword of Tsuna for example is originally from the Genji clan, Raikou herself was the one that give it to Tsuna, so there don't are a reason as to why the rank of the weapon decrease in her hands.

See? This is where thing getting more complicated, i still think she can't used Golden Spark and Mount Ooe - Enlightement Oni Slayer respectively, however the effect of Golden Eater and Onigiri Yasutsuna are still there
Anyway even if its reduced, Eternal arm Mastery would likely help it, aside i agree with you

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

BUMP!!

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Personally fine with upgrading Raikou.

The FGO material's Xiuhcoatl is EX Rank, but the game profile's Xiuhcoatl is A+ Rank. The disparity can be resolved by the Chaldea system summoning a nerfed Quetzalcoatl since she is a Divine Spirit.
Though Ruler Quetzalcoatl getting upgraded to the K-T Impact is straight-forward.

Caster Nero's profile confirms that Imperial Privilege allows Nero to learn magecraft, and that it gives her Plot/Fate Manipulation (Deus ex Machina), so the thing is OP. Though I think there probably should be an example of Nero using IP to amp AP.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I'm still unsure about that, any evidence on it?

For the moment the only thing I could find is someone saying that the support Raikou have it at A+, and since I still haven't read Heian-Kyo, I guess I can drop that part (... For now!), though, since her base NP is B++ can't she scale to others NP B++ like Stella?

Caster Nero's profile confirms that Imperial Privilege allows Nero to learn magecraft, and that it gives her Plot/Fate Manipulation (Deus ex Machina), so the thing is OP. Though I think there probably should be an example of Nero using IP to amp AP.

It give her Plot/Fate manip!? God, as someone with Caster Nero why I didn't knew that?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The 'falling from her horse' and Deus ex Machina part is included in her FGO materials, but not game profile:

Reckless Driver Privilege: EX A Skill modified from Imperial Privilege. Comes from the stories of her once running her chariot out of control in Olympia. You could say it’s learned from personal experience. It’s a Skill that promises her first place no matter what happens. Even if she falls from her horse in the middle of the race, some Deus Ex Machina will make her first place in the end. The Undying Magus: A Magecraft taught to her by her once magus mentor, Simon Magus. Simon sentenced himself to decapitation, then revived. It’s said that, due to her special mana, Nero as a magician can grant one-time immortality to a person and grant them physical strength like that of a beast. Territory Creation: A+ As a magician, she can construct a territory beneficial to her. This time, she got it on an extraordinary rank due to the stories of making the theater and her good administration of the Colosseum. Item Creation (Unconventional): EX Talent to make a variety of tools. There is nothing the self-proclaimed, almighty genius Emperor Nero can’t make. Since her aesthetic sense doesn’t match the ordinary people’s tastes, all tools she creates can only be qualified as EX (non-standard/unquantifiable).

At least the writers admit that they are biased toward Nero.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The 'falling from her horse' and Deus ex Machina part is included in her FGO materials, but not game profile:

Reckless Driver Privilege: EX A Skill modified from Imperial Privilege. Comes from the stories of her once running her chariot out of control in Olympia. You could say it’s learned from personal experience. It’s a Skill that promises her first place no matter what happens. Even if she falls from her horse in the middle of the race, some Deus Ex Machina will make her first place in the end. The Undying Magus: A Magecraft taught to her by her once magus mentor, Simon Magus. Simon sentenced himself to decapitation, then revived. It’s said that, due to her special mana, Nero as a magician can grant one-time immortality to a person and grant them physical strength like that of a beast. Territory Creation: A+ As a magician, she can construct a territory beneficial to her. This time, she got it on an extraordinary rank due to the stories of making the theater and her good administration of the Colosseum. Item Creation (Unconventional): EX Talent to make a variety of tools. There is nothing the self-proclaimed, almighty genius Emperor Nero can’t make. Since her aesthetic sense doesn’t match the ordinary people’s tastes, all tools she creates can only be qualified as EX (non-standard/unquantifiable).

At least the writers admit that they are biased toward Nero.

ALV, that's savage, also, that Item Creation explain her own sword.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Caster Nero's profile confirms that Imperial Privilege allows Nero to learn magecraft, and that it gives her Plot/Fate Manipulation (Deus ex Machina), so the thing is OP. Though I think there probably should be an example of Nero using IP to amp AP.

The question is does she use it often? I afraid it would turn her really hard to make a match-up for her

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The question is does she use it often? I afraid it would turn her really hard to make a match-up for her

Its already hard to make matchs with her, honestly, but would also be good to note how often she use it and to a what extents.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Its already hard to make matchs with her, honestly, but would also be good to note how often she use it and to a what extents.

Eh, she's kinda easy to make a matchs for her even with the IP, but with plot manipulation being throwed there then i'm afraid the match-up potential for her would be impossible

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Since I drop the point of Raikou NP upgrade to A+ until the future when I have proof to it be related to the story, and the rest of things were accepted then this should applied to the profiles:

Raikou: 6-C, higher against mystical beings with Mystery Killer, higher with Mana Burst, higher with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven (or if we have a value for Rank B++ NPs then that, though with the amount of big buff Raikou have to this point with her NP she already would be in High 6-C, right?)

Quetz: 6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl and Xiuhcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A if unrestricted Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

or

6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A with Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

And a 'higher with Imperial Privilege' to every user of Imperial Privilege, so:

Nero: and Nero Bride: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Laus Saint Claudius and Fax Caelestis.
Also give Nero plot manip, or we wait until
Romulus: 6-C, higher with Natural Body, Low 6-B with Magna Voluisse Magnum
Romulus-Quirinus: 6-C, higher with Throne of Quirinus (his IP in this form), higher with Apotheosis, Low 6-B with Nine Lives Roma, at least Low 6-B, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher with Per Aspera Ad Astra
Caligula: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege
Ozymandias: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, at least 6-C with Sphinxes, higher with the Sphinx Wehem-Mesut, Low 6-B with Mesektet, 6-A with Ramesseum Tentyris the Dendera Light Bulb, higher with last resort attack
Cleopatra: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Uraeus Astrape
Wu Zetian: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Gàomì Luózhī Jīng

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, i think that's good

 

[QuasiYuri]

The question is does she use it often? I afraid it would turn her really hard to make a match-up for her

It really only apply if she's in a race tbf. It isn't combat applicable.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It really only apply if she's in a race tbf. It isn't combat applicable.

Oh thank god phew

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So with everyone agreed, can this revision applied now? I also invited Ant for approval

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

Also:

@Promestein @Iapitus_The_Impaler @Solacis @Beast_Zero_Gudako @DemonGodMitchAubin @RegisNex1232 @Dargoo_Faust @Creaturemaster971 @AguilaR101 @EmperorRorepme @ShiroyahaGinSan @PsychoWarper @BakiHanma18 @Ionliosite @Zencha9

What do you think about this?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Since I drop the point of Raikou NP upgrade to A+ until the future when I have proof to it be related to the story, and the rest of things were accepted then this should applied to the profiles:

Raikou: 6-C, higher against mystical beings with Mystery Killer, higher with Mana Burst, higher with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven (or if we have a value for Rank B++ NPs then that, though with the amount of big buff Raikou have to this point with her NP she already would be in High 6-C, right?)

Quetz: 6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl and Xiuhcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A if unrestricted Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

or

6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A with Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

And a 'higher with Imperial Privilege' to every user of Imperial Privilege, so:

Nero: and Nero Bride: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Laus Saint Claudius and Fax Caelestis.
Also give Nero plot manip, or we wait until
Romulus: 6-C, higher with Natural Body, Low 6-B with Magna Voluisse Magnum
Romulus-Quirinus: 6-C, higher with Throne of Quirinus (his IP in this form), higher with Apotheosis, Low 6-B with Nine Lives Roma, at least Low 6-B, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher with Per Aspera Ad Astra
Caligula: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege
Ozymandias: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, at least 6-C with Sphinxes, higher with the Sphinx Wehem-Mesut, Low 6-B with Mesektet, 6-A with Ramesseum Tentyris the Dendera Light Bulb, higher with last resort attack
Cleopatra: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Uraeus Astrape
Wu Zetian: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Gàomì Luózhī Jīng

This is the conclusion i think

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Basically Raikou got a AP buff with Mystery killer and Mana Burst, and further higher with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven (this one still need to be argued for either High 6-C or Low 6-B)

Quetz Xiuhcoatl got upgraded to large country - large continent for the latter, included with Quetzalcoatlus which mean restricted Xiuhcoatl for the former

Nero Imperial Priveladge gave her a AP buff and possible using the others common servant skills, any servants that had the Imperial Priveladge would get the same treatment

 

[Antvasima]

@Promestein @Iapitus_The_Impaler @Solacis @Beast_Zero_Gudako @DemonGodMitchAubin @RegisNex1232 @Dargoo_Faust @Creaturemaster971 @AguilaR101 @EmperorRorepme @ShiroyahaGinSan @PsychoWarper @BakiHanma18 @Ionliosite @Zencha9

What do you think about this?

Sorry.

@ShiroyashaGinSan

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I don't think Shiro would likely come anymore tho, same with Regis

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Since I drop the point of Raikou NP upgrade to A+ until the future when I have proof to it be related to the story, and the rest of things were accepted then this should applied to the profiles:

Raikou: 6-C, higher against mystical beings with Mystery Killer, higher with Mana Burst, higher with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven (or if we have a value for Rank B++ NPs then that, though with the amount of big buff Raikou have to this point with her NP she already would be in High 6-C, right?)

Quetz: 6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl and Xiuhcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A if unrestricted Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

or

6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A with Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

And a 'higher with Imperial Privilege' to every user of Imperial Privilege, so:

Nero: and Nero Bride: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Laus Saint Claudius and Fax Caelestis.
Also give Nero plot manip, or we wait until
Romulus: 6-C, higher with Natural Body, Low 6-B with Magna Voluisse Magnum
Romulus-Quirinus: 6-C, higher with Throne of Quirinus (his IP in this form), higher with Apotheosis, Low 6-B with Nine Lives Roma, at least Low 6-B, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher with Per Aspera Ad Astra
Caligula: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege
Ozymandias: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, at least 6-C with Sphinxes, higher with the Sphinx Wehem-Mesut, Low 6-B with Mesektet, 6-A with Ramesseum Tentyris the Dendera Light Bulb, higher with last resort attack
Cleopatra: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Uraeus Astrape
Wu Zetian: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Gàomì Luózhī Jīng

This looks good, so I agree with the changes.

Honestly im surprised the Quetz stuff took so long lol.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It might be because peoples didn't realized it or Quetz was forgotten

 

[Rez]

Quetz was forgotten

Most definitely she was I mean half of the time I don't even remember she was in Babylonia singularity

 

[Zencha9]

Since I drop the point of Raikou NP upgrade to A+ until the future when I have proof to it be related to the story, and the rest of things were accepted then this should applied to the profiles:

Raikou: 6-C, higher against mystical beings with Mystery Killer, higher with Mana Burst, higher with Ox-King Storm Call - The Inescapable Net of Heaven (or if we have a value for Rank B++ NPs then that, though with the amount of big buff Raikou have to this point with her NP she already would be in High 6-C, right?)

Quetz: 6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl and Xiuhcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A if unrestricted Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

or

6-C, higher with Quetzalcoatl, High 6-B, possible High 6-A with Xiuhcoatl. Unknown with Piedra del Sol

And a 'higher with Imperial Privilege' to every user of Imperial Privilege, so:

Nero: and Nero Bride: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Laus Saint Claudius and Fax Caelestis.
Also give Nero plot manip, or we wait until
Romulus: 6-C, higher with Natural Body, Low 6-B with Magna Voluisse Magnum
Romulus-Quirinus: 6-C, higher with Throne of Quirinus (his IP in this form), higher with Apotheosis, Low 6-B with Nine Lives Roma, at least Low 6-B, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher with Per Aspera Ad Astra
Caligula: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege
Ozymandias: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, at least 6-C with Sphinxes, higher with the Sphinx Wehem-Mesut, Low 6-B with Mesektet, 6-A with Ramesseum Tentyris the Dendera Light Bulb, higher with last resort attack
Cleopatra: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Uraeus Astrape
Wu Zetian: 6-C, higher with Imperial Privilege, higher with Gàomì Luózhī Jīng

yeah this makes sense