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Fate - 9D Mooncell (Continuation of the closed CRT)

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So just to see if I'm understanding the OP right there are 8 spatial dimensions and when cutting through the 8 dimensions, you reach the core which is described as a "higher dimension" and "higher dimension perspective"?

If they are referring to the core as being higher dimensional when compared to the previous 8 then I guess 9-D is fine. Though again, this is coming from someone with no knowledge on the verse. If I'm not following the argument properly let me know.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So just to see if I'm understanding the OP right there are 8 spatial dimensions and when cutting through the 8 dimensions, you reach the core which is described as a "higher dimension" and "higher dimension perspective"?

If they are referring to the core as being higher dimensional when compared to the previous 8 then I guess 9-D is fine. Though again, this is coming from someone with no knowledge on the verse. If I'm not following the argument properly let me know.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much it, I explained above and in the last thread in more details. BB took down said barrier and then merged with the core which contains a higher dimensional recording medium, thus becoming the MoonCell itself. That being done, she obtained a higher dimensional perspective than before and stronger powers/authority. I can explain some other things you'd like to clear up if needed.
 
Maxeez said:
That's pretty much it, I explained above and in the last thread in more details. BB took down said barrier and then merged with the core which contains a higher dimensional recording medium, thus becoming the MoonCell itself. That being done, she obtained a higher dimensional perspective than before and stronger powers/authority. I can explain some other things you'd like to clear up if needed.
Click to expand...
Then I think the upgrade is fine.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So just to see if I'm understanding the OP right there are 8 spatial dimensions and when cutting through the 8 dimensions, you reach the core which is described as a "higher dimension" and "higher dimension perspective"?

If they are referring to the core as being higher dimensional when compared to the previous 8 then I guess 9-D is fine. Though again, this is coming from someone with no knowledge on the verse. If I'm not following the argument properly let me know.
Click to expand...
thank you for commenting, yes it is a correct comment and the site has already accepted what we call this eight dimensions and at this point it will prove to you that it is higher dimensional than all parts of including the eight dimensional barrier of the core" that already governs all mooncell within the core barrier


Here, after explicitly mentioning the structure (mooncell), the word high-dimensional entity is used for the core, which will be enough to simply make the core 9D
 
I think we should just need a few more staff input before doing anything, so keep spamming going guys 😂.
 
Originally I was frankly neutral, but arguments from the supporter's have pushed me towards agreeing. (Though my Bias to BB and Co. may also be slightly at work) Though, I'd be nice if more staff came on this thread to talk.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
How long has it been since you messaged them?

Also, are there any staff listed under the supporters section of this verse?
Click to expand...
I think Crimson is a supporter but he isn't on the list as far as I can see. He already commented on the last thread though, he was a bit conflicted iirc but there has been more detailed explanations and new arguments since so I don't know.
 
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I didn't think this thread would progress this far and get admin agreement rip
1Nairove said:
I'm thinking like this, the Core is already a building block that manages the whole mooncell, and everyone knows it, and considering the rani's speech I just mentioned, it must be higher dimensional than all its structures within the barrier that cuts the 8th Dimension, am I right?
Click to expand...
Anyway to respond to this, no, this is not necessarily the case at all, hence me saying that the core being called higher d does not inherently mean its above the 8 dimensions.

To get 9d you just sorta have to assume she meant its higher than the 8 dimensions, because with her wording, it being 8 dimensional as well, would also make it higher dimensional.

The core is being mentioned to be higher d here because of them explaining how higher dimensions work, what with the whole seeing the entire timeline as a scroll or whatever, so referring to the recording medium within the core as higher dimensional, they're establishing that it can do that, hence BB absorbing it allows her the same. This does not necessitate that it's above the 8 dimensions found within the mooncell though, merely that it's equal due to what it is

This argument can be extended to souls as well, as the line about them being higher d comes from the mooncell, meaning one could argue them 9d with the same logic used for the core to be 9d.

On top of this assumption not necessarily being the case, there was a good argument brought up against it earlier which never really was debunked. That being "why would the core use something infinitely weaker and smaller as its last defense"

The weird MMA boxer analogy doesn't really work because, assuming the core is 9d, why not just, make a 9d wall? Any potential threat to it can't be stopped by an 8d one, as a threat to the core would be infinitely stronger than it. And if it just wants to stop BB from doing what she ends up doing, making it infinitely weaker than itself still doesn't make sense, it's the last line of defense it should go all out.
 
Paul_Frank said:
On top of this assumption not necessarily being the case, there was a good argument brought up against it earlier which never really was debunked. That being "why would the core use something infinitely weaker and smaller as its last defense"

The weird MMA boxer analogy doesn't really work because, assuming the core is 9d, why not just, make a 9d wall? Any potential threat to it can't be stopped by an 8d one, as a threat to the core would be infinitely stronger than it. And if it just wants to stop BB from doing what she ends up doing, making it infinitely weaker than itself still doesn't make sense, it's the last line of defense it should go all out.
Click to expand...

Maxeez said:
Maybe because it is actually unable of doing so and is just a higher dimensional existence rather than power ?
Explained the rest of my ideas right above.
Click to expand...
Maxeez said:
Re-read what I said, plus the barrier is supposed to be protecting it until there's a winner in the MoonCell holy grail war so there was initially no need to make it 9D. The MoonCell didn't predict that BB would take over enough parts of the MoonCell to bruteforce the barrier.

Because it would make sense for it to be on the same dimension as the winner of the war before opening the walls and granting them with the higher dimensional reward with the core.
Click to expand...
Theoretical said:
This seems to be the main problem but we already know that the core is superior to the wall already so I don't think this should be a problem the only problem is to what extent

But we already know the core is superior to the wall so even if it created a 9D wall the same argument can be used because the core would still be superior the wall even if it made a 9D wall
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Theoretical said:
I won't have time to respond all everything here but I still agree it doesn't make sense that BB could perceive a 8D wall describe it and destroy it but not have higher dimensional perspective relative to the wall at that specific point in time.

Just to gain higher dimensional perspective later on even tho evidence suggest that she already had it given the fact that she performed those set feats

So she either didn't have higher dimensional perspective prior to that not even on the level of the wall itself or she did gained the core and gained a even higher dimensional perspective using the next scan talking the core being higher dimensional necessitating that she core is 9D
Click to expand...
Wouldn't this also make sense ? The recording medium being 9D woudn't necessarily imply it being able to create a barrier of such a level as it only has shown 8D (or below) feats before, thus explaining the use of the specific word existence.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Really! The whole list!


How long has it been since you messaged them?

Also, are there any staff listed under the supporters section of this verse?
Click to expand...
As far as I can see, there are 2 but I also wrote to the people on the admin list because the review of this revision is too late and the staff has not looked at this revision for a long time
 
Paul_Frank said:
I didn't think this thread would progress this far and get admin agreement rip

Anyway to respond to this, no, this is not necessarily the case at all, hence me saying that the core being called higher d does not inherently mean its above the 8 dimensions.

To get 9d you just sorta have to assume she meant its higher than the 8 dimensions, because with her wording, it being 8 dimensional as well, would also make it higher dimensional.

The core is being mentioned to be higher d here because of them explaining how higher dimensions work, what with the whole seeing the entire timeline as a scroll or whatever, so referring to the recording medium within the core as higher dimensional, they're establishing that it can do that, hence BB absorbing it allows her the same. This does not necessitate that it's above the 8 dimensions found within the mooncell though, merely that it's equal due to what it is

This argument can be extended to souls as well, as the line about them being higher d comes from the mooncell, meaning one could argue them 9d with the same logic used for the core to be 9d.

On top of this assumption not necessarily being the case, there was a good argument brought up against it earlier which never really was debunked. That being "why would the core use something infinitely weaker and smaller as its last defense"

The weird MMA boxer analogy doesn't really work because, assuming the core is 9d, why not just, make a 9d wall? Any potential threat to it can't be stopped by an 8d one, as a threat to the core would be infinitely stronger than it. And if it just wants to stop BB from doing what she ends up doing, making it infinitely weaker than itself still doesn't make sense, it's the last line of defense it should go all out.
Click to expand...
For the 9D wall, it's not the wall that is 8D or 9D, the wall just cut through 8 dimmension that already present. So having this wall cutting through 8 dimmension doesn't discard the 9D moon cell, tho i don't care about this part. (even more when for what we know the 8D dimmension is just a part of moon cell, that would mean that the whole moon cell is greater than this 8 dimmension)
 
A better arguments to use would have been to tell that since the barrier cut off through 8 dimmension, this mean the 8D Space exist outside the moon cell core, and that we know that the moon cell core space is inaccessible to the barrier. Which then would be a "supportive" arguments that the moon cell core is a higher dimmension existance than the 8D space
 
Do we have a solid confirmation that the core is a higher dimensionality than the previous 8 spatial dimensions? Not just generically higher relative to the character saying the statement?
 
Firestorm808 said:
Do we have a solid confirmation that the core is a higher dimensionality than the previous 8 spatial dimensions? Not just generically higher relative to the character saying the statement?
Click to expand...
he doesn't need to mention it especially as a barrier. Mooncell consists of far side, near side and barrier and the core manages them indirectly, they are all under his control, so his bet


here, while rani first defines mooncell (as God's eye and in general in her previous speech), then she uses the word high-dimensional being for the core, that is, ap is higher dimensional than all mooncell, including the 8D barrier.


by all mooncell he means all regions ie far side, near side, and 8 dimensional barrier and core higher dimensional than these
 
Regidian said:
For the 9D wall, it's not the wall that is 8D or 9D, the wall just cut through 8 dimmension that already present. So having this wall cutting through 8 dimmension doesn't discard the 9D moon cell, tho i don't care about this part. (even more when for what we know the 8D dimmension is just a part of moon cell, that would mean that the whole moon cell is greater than this 8 dimmension)
Click to expand...
This is an awful argument

Cutting through X dimensions in fact means, you're X dimensional, humans cut through 3 dimensions and funnily enough, are 3 dimensional, it's very cool.

So no, this does still mean it made a wall infinitely weaker and smaller than it, rather than idk, doing literally anything else with its infinitely higher power than that defense.

Also I literally made that "contained in just a part of the mooncell" argument on discord so I'm aware of it but even that's still able to be argued against, and wasn't part of the proposed upgrade
Firestorm808 said:
Do we have a solid confirmation that the core is a higher dimensionality than the previous 8 spatial dimensions? Not just generically higher relative to the character saying the statement?
Click to expand...
No, the literal only statement is just that the core is higher dimensional. They don't say higher dimensional in respect to the mooncell, they don't say higher dimensional than the mooncell, or anything that actual confirms it definitively.
 
Paul_Frank said:
This is an awful argument

Cutting through X dimensions in fact means, you're X dimensional, humans cut through 3 dimensions and funnily enough, are 3 dimensional, it's very cool.

So no, this does still mean it made a wall infinitely weaker and smaller than it, rather than idk, doing literally anything else with its infinitely higher power than that defense.

Also I literally made that "contained in just a part of the mooncell" argument on discord so I'm aware of it but even that's still able to be argued against, and wasn't part of the proposed upgrade

No, the literal only statement is just that the core is higher dimensional. They don't say higher dimensional in respect to the mooncell, they don't say higher dimensional than the mooncell, or anything that actual confirms it definitively.
Click to expand...
There is no concept of "higher dimensional than mooncell" directly, yes, but first of all, after mentioning mooncell, using the term high dimensional will be sufficient for this. If you look at the evidence I have presented, you will see the suffix "even higher". If you think I'm being silly, think again because it wouldn't be a statment for him to openly say "more dimensional than Mooncell"
 
Firestorm808 said:
What quote are you referring to for the "Even higher"?
Click to expand...
ah, when I look at it now, I can't see its higher context, when it is rotated, it turns higher, but this does not change the result, if the aforementioned panel also said that the core is high-dimensional, it would be a reference to 8D, but the thing is, after referring to the mooncell, the core is said to be high-dimensional so after talking about the whole mooncell, this context is passing, so the context before the sentence is actually the statment of the sentence

Edit: We can use this statement of Regidian as a supporting evidence
"A better arguments to use would have been to tell that since the barrier cut off through 8 dimmension, this mean the 8D Space exist outside the moon cell core, and that we know that the moon cell core space is inaccessible to the barrier. Which then would be a "supportive" arguments that the moon cell core is a higher dimmension existance than the 8D space"
 
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Firestorm808 said:
Do we have a solid confirmation that the core is a higher dimensionality than the previous 8 spatial dimensions? Not just generically higher relative to the character saying the statement?
Click to expand...
No we don't have


Paul_Frank said:
This is an awful argument

Cutting through X dimensions in fact means, you're X dimensional, humans cut through 3 dimensions and funnily enough, are 3 dimensional, it's very cool.

So no, this does still mean it made a wall infinitely weaker and smaller than it, rather than idk, doing literally anything else with its infinitely higher power than that defense.

Also I literally made that "contained in just a part of the mooncell" argument on discord so I'm aware of it but even that's still able to be argued against, and wasn't part of the proposed upgrade

No, the literal only statement is just that the core is higher dimensional. They don't say higher dimensional in respect to the mooncell, they don't say higher dimensional than the mooncell, or anything that actual confirms it definitively.
Click to expand...
I don't consider it awful in the sense we don't know if we even had more than 8D in first. If you only have 8 dimmension to cut off, you can't magicaly cut off more.

And i didn't talk about the contained part tho just tell that the 8 dimmension exist outside the core and that the core have it's own space.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I'm a bit confused. We are recently told that we don't have a solid confirmation of the core being higher dimensional than the barriers. Does this still apply?
Click to expand...
This point of view is understandable. However, I think the 9-D core interpretation makes more sense and that some refutations that can be made against it aren't completely demolishing the initial arguments and have already been adressed previously in this thread and in the previous one. That explains the fact that there are a lot of neutrality towards the upgrade, while many people still agree to it. It also explains why we struggled to get input here, I guess (and additionally, this is why we have let the debate aside to let staff members evaluate the proposal and agree/disagree with it).
 
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