Fairy Tail: Wraith scalling needs to change

[BlackeJan]

Natsu barely reacted to the attack, they were more worried about being unable to use magic, as they literally just saw Alta Face tank an Amped FDKM attack, so what the hell could they do when they are bellow Base Natsu Level.

The pic above that shows they were in pain, again it’s a trope how characters can take a shit ton of damage and get back up

Natsu's body had no magic when he tanked Alta Face's beam, Natsu had Magic when he fought Wraith and took more damage from wraith's attacks then the Beam did.

Again the pic above says otherwise, that’s something cannot discredit and it showed that he’s took more damage then base wraith but let’s not forget that he was also more worried vs Alta then he did Wraith

Alta Face's Dura =/= his AP, his only actual AP feat that his main body has is a High 7-A+ blast which barely did anything even thought the main cast was significantly nerfed.

Newton’s 3rd Law says otherwise. We all know more magic equals more power and durability (literally we all agreed having more magic makes u more powerful) like by that logic unless u wanted to main casts to die off. Not even that but LB makes them more powerful then they anything their base was beforhand and it took them all to destroy Alta meaning Hiro wanted to show that something stronger was what needed to beat the thing

 

[Zackra1799]

The pic above that shows they were in pain, again it’s a trope how characters can take a shit ton of damage and get back up

There's nothing there to prove they were in pain though, the reason they were so worried is because they literally couldn't move their bodies due to the sudden lack of their magic power

Again the pic above says otherwise, that’s something cannot discredit and it showed that he’s took more damage then base wraith but let’s not forget that he was also more worried vs Alta then he did Wraith

Natsu was literally only pushed back by the attack, hell even Base Wendy was only knocked down, non of the FT members are in pain like you claim them to be.

Newton’s 3rd Law says otherwise.

This has literally nothing to due with Newtons 3rd law here as his AP is weaker than his Dura.

We all know more magic equals more power and durability (literally we all agreed having more magic makes u more powerful) like by that logic unless u wanted to main casts to die off. Not even that but LB makes them more powerful then they anything their base was beforhand and it took them all to destroy Alta meaning Hiro wanted to show that something stronger was what needed to beat the thing

They didn't have their limits broken when they took that attack, plus by this logic you want FH Zeref to be High 3-A given infinite magic = infinite AP, which is just untrue.

Your basically trying to claim that Alta Face is High 6-A here, which doesn't work when his only AP feat is barely doing anything to 6-Cs.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Team Natsu tanked the Beam Attack, taking literally no damage from it while their bodies perceived that they had no magic available to them

Base Wraith did manage to hurt Base Natsu with his physical attacks

Alta Face is nothing but False Hype, he literally couldn't hurt Base Wendy with a giant ******* Beam, all he has is Durability

So yeah, it's dumb, but Base Wraith is above Alta Face

 

[BlackeJan]

There's nothing there to prove they were in pain though, the reason they were so worried is because they literally couldn't move their bodies due to the sudden lack of their magic power

Wrong pic. Show the other one where they are hit by the blast and it shows they are in pain and even Natsu was worried

Natsu was literally only pushed back by the attack, hell even Base Wendy was only knocked down, non of the FT members are in pain like you claim them to be

Again. It’s a trope to be in pain then get right back up in anime

This has literally nothing to due with Newtons 3rd law here as his AP is weaker than his Dura.

Then that means all the times that we scaled characters to their AP or durability should be changed then. Atla hurt them and they needed LB powers to crush it

They didn't have their limits broken when they took that attack

AP = Durability is a lot of case which is true here as well. His beam could hurt the team and it took LB strength to beat Atla

Your basically trying to claim that Alta Face is High 6-A here, which doesn't work when his only AP feat is barely doing anything to 6-Cs.

I don’t know how u came to that conclusion but that doesn’t work here (well by VSB standards) have u forgotten there are calcs where a small crater could be the equivalent to destroying a city block?

 

[BlackeJan]

Team Natsu tanked the Beam Attack, taking literally no damage from it while their bodies perceived that they had no magic available to them

Base Wraith did manage to hurt Base Natsu with his physical attacks

Alta Face is nothing but False Hype, he literally couldn't hurt Base Wendy with a giant ******* Beam, all he has is Durability

So yeah, it's dumb, but Base Wraith is I above Alta Face

thats if u want to straight up ignore the fact when they got hit by the beam u could see the horrific faces and then we have the trope where characters get hurt then get right by up and FT is of course one of them

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alta Face dropped everyone's magic, why would the enchantment still be up?

 

[BlackeJan]

Alta Face dropped everyone's magic, why would the enchantment still be up?

I got rid of it and I could still argue about it but don’t feel like it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wrong pic. Show the other one where they are hit by the blast and it shows they are in pain and even Natsu was worried

They are directly engulfed in the attack and take zero damage, they have no more wounds or scars at all...

Again. It’s a trope to be in pain then get right back up in anime

I don't see how this is relevant

Then that means all the times that we scaled characters to their AP or durability should be changed then. Atla hurt them and they needed LB powers to crush it

Newton's 3rd Law is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, first of all

1. This is only applies to physical and forced based, which doesn't apply to a giant laser beam

2. The law is that Durability must be equal to or above the physical Striking Class of a character, the Durability of a character can be way above their AP, for instance every single Dragon in Fairy Tail, as well as Madmole

AP = Durability is a lot of case which is true here as well. His beam could hurt the team and it took LB strength to beat Atla

Literally irrelevant and wrong, his couldn't hurt them at all with the beam, he couldn't hurt Base Wendy of all people with the beam

I don’t know how u came to that conclusion but that doesn’t work here (well by VSB standards) have u forgotten there are calcs where a small crater could be the equivalent to destroying a city block?

AOE Fallacy yeah, but we have a calc that puts this attack at High 7-A+ and all of them tanked it with no injuries

 

[BlackeJan]

They are directly engulfed in the attack and take zero damage, they have no more wounds or scars at all...

The mere fact it showed they were in pain shows otherwise. U don’t have to have cuts and bruises to show u are in pain

I don't see how this is relevant

it’s relevant because just how u said they took no damage (the picture says otherwise) yet got back up ready to fight shows it’s a trope like any other action genre we see this with DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, OP and FT. This ain’t the first time this happened either

Newton's 3rd Law is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, first of all

1. This is only applies to physical and forced based, which doesn't apply to a giant laser beam

2. The law is that Durability must be equal to or above the physical Striking Class of a character, the Durability of a character can be way above their AP, for instance every single Dragon in Fairy Tail, as well as Madmole

ok that’s my mistake but it’s magic. U think the authors are gonna care about how a “beam has not physical and forced based?” In their eyes it’s gonna cause damage and it pretty much shows as well and regardless we still go with Durability = AP in majority case and this is one of them

but we have a calc that puts this attack at High 7-A+ and all of them tanked it with no injuries

U would know if someone tanked an attack with no damage or show no pain. The pain was most def there otherwise Hiro wouldn’t have shown that picture of them looking like they was getting burnt alive

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The mere fact it showed they were in pain shows otherwise. U don’t have to have cuts and bruises to show u are in pain

it’s relevant because just how u said they took no damage (the picture says otherwise) yet got back up ready to fight shows it’s a trope like any other action genre we see this with DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, OP and FT. This ain’t the first time this happened either

U would know if someone tanked an attack with no damage or show no pain. The pain was most def there otherwise Hiro wouldn’t have shown that picture of them looking like they was getting burnt alive

Pain =/= Damage, someone can poke me really hard and cause me pain, but it doesn't mean it will give me an injury, also them appearing to be in pain means little as literally right after the attack, we see they have taken zero damage and have no injuries

ok that’s my mistake but it’s magic. U think the authors are gonna care about how a “beam has not physical and forced based?” In their eyes it’s gonna cause damage and it pretty much shows as well and regardless we still go with Durability = AP in majority case and this is one of them

Dude, you can't use the argument that something doesn't work in fiction because it doesn't follow reality and Newton's Law, and then use the argument that "Well it's fiction, it doesn't have to follow reality" literally seconds later... You're contradicting yourself

Also no offense, but AP and Durability being equal to each other "typically" means absolutely nothing, we have plenty of characters on the sight, including Fairy Tail characters that have different AP and Durability

 

[GuildZero]

Wait what. Natsu never shows concern about taking damage this is completely false. He is pushed back he then says damn gray questions why cant they use magic lucy says it is strange and erza just says damn. Nothing suggest worry for damage.

Going by base gray and lucy. You know characters a good bit weaker than base natsu there only concern is they can't use magic. They got knocked down but show no signs of damage taken.

And the last paragraph makes no sense. Just because they got engulfed in a attack doesn't mean they took damage. The fact weaker characters then base natsu only talks about how they can't use magic instead of taking damage or at least a ow shows they did not take damage.

 

[BlackeJan]

Pain =/= Damage, someone can poke me really hard and cause me pain, but it doesn't mean it will give me an injury, also them appearing to be in pain means little as literally right after the attack, we see they have taken zero damage and have no injuries

That doesn’t make any sense. We scale people if they take damage or pain it doesn’t matter as long as that person feels it and FT members did so

Dude, you can't use the argument that something doesn't work in fiction because it doesn't follow reality and Newton's Law, and then use the argument that "Well it's fiction, it doesn't have to follow reality" literally seconds later... You're contradicting yourself

Also no offense, but AP and Durability being equal to each other "typically" means absolutely nothing, we have plenty of characters on the sight, including Fairy Tail characters that have different AP and Durability

domt see how I’m contradicting myself when I’m saying the truth. U tried to use the beam argument and I told ya that authors don’t care about science.

“but AP and Durability being equal to each other "typically" means absolutely nothing” by that logic that means this entire time, the tiers and durability should even be the same at all by why I just said. U just said that FT characters have different AP and durability right? so guess we now gotta make the changes then

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait what. Natsu never shows concern about taking damage this is completely false. He is pushed back he then says damn gray questions why cant they use magic lucy says it is strange and erza just says damn. Nothing suggest worry for damage.

Going by base gray and lucy. You know characters a good bit weaker than base natsu there only concern is they can't use magic. They got knocked down but show no signs of damage taken.

And the last paragraph makes no sense. Just because they got engulfed in a attack doesn't mean they took damage. The fact weaker characters then base natsu only talks about how they can't use magic instead of taking damage or at least a ow shows they did not take damage.

Sure if u want to ignore the fact of the horror picture of them looking like they were in pain by the attack but tell me if this makes sense. Does them having no magic and then tanking an attack when we know u become fodder without magic make sense? That just means their durability should be close to nonexistent correct? So how do u tank an attack when it’s been established having no magic makes u VERY weak???

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That doesn’t make any sense. We scale people if they take damage or pain it doesn’t matter as long as that person feels it and FT members did so

This just flat out isn't true, you can't scale off of pain alone, you need to be able to show you can actually inflict injury on someone's body to scale to their durability, whether it be a bruise mark, cut, stab wound, etc.

domt see how I’m contradicting myself when I’m saying the truth. U tried to use the beam argument and I told ya that authors don’t care about science.

That's my point, you tried to use science earlier to prove a point for a fictional story, and now you're trying to say that we shouldn't use science because fiction doesn't follow reality

Like are you ok man? You're talking nonsense

“but AP and Durability being equal to each other "typically" means absolutely nothing” by that logic that means this entire time, the tiers and durability should even be the same at all by why I just said. U just said that FT characters have different AP and durability right? so guess we now gotta make the changes then

I just can't even comprehend how you think this is a logical argument at all...

Fairy Tail characters have actual Durability and AP feats to show why they scale to each other... We don't just assume all stats are equal, in order for someone's Durability to scale to their AP, you need to be able to prove you can take hits from people comparable to your AP, for example, Hakune and Rufus have no durability feats at all, so they have "Unknown" Durability

Alta Face couldn't hurt Base Natsu, yet he could tank attacks from an Enchanted FDKM Natsu, this means his Durability is above his AP, this is basic shit man, even the Dragons in Fairy Tail have Durability above their AP, Erza destroyed Deus Sema, but Irene said she wouldn't be able to cut her scales

 

[GuildZero]

Sure if u want to ignore the fact of the horror picture of them looking like they were in pain by the attack but tell me if this makes sense. Does them having no magic and then tanking an attack when we know u become fodder without magic make sense? That just means their durability should be close to nonexistent correct? So how do u tank an attack when it’s been established having no magic makes u VERY weak???

Looking like they were in pain or just got hit with a blast that was shown to start blinding them. In fact no one shows sign of being damaged natsu is shown being pushed back, lucy is shown recovering from 2 pages ago where it shows her being blinded, gray is just pushed back and erza just says damn. They all look the same as when they began the fight. So no nothing suggest damage or even pain. As gray and lucy talks about lack of magic.

Even base wendy is not bothered by it and just goes to talking to irene.

How is them being fodder without magic mean them tanking alta face attack doesn't make sense.

1. That contradicts the scene.
2. Alta face showed that his ap was fodder itself since he was not able to damage characters who durability is fodder.
3. He only has good dura feats thats it.

 

[BlackeJan]

I just can't even comprehend how you think this is a logical argument at all...

Now that’s a contradiction right there. U can’t just say what u said before then change it from your own example. Not only that but even u had arguments about saying someone damages another so they scale. It wouldn’t make a lick of sense to not scale someone to another if they can faze said person

Looking like they were in pain or just got hit with a blast that was shown to start blinding them. In fact no one shows sign of being damaged natsu is shown being pushed back, lucy is shown recovering from 2 pages ago where it shows her being blinded, gray is just pushed back and erza just says damn. They all look the same as when they began the fight. So no nothing suggest damage or even pain. As gray and lucy talks about lack of magic.

Even base wendy is not bothered by it and just goes to talking to irene.

How is them being fodder without magic mean them tanking alta face attack doesn't make sense.

Again. Anime trope of characters taking damage then getting right back up….how blind???? nothing indicated that they were blind by the attack but yeah again if u want to ignore the fact of the picture engulfing them + the anime trope the sure we’ll go with that

 

[BlackeJan]

now you're trying to say that we shouldn't use science because fiction doesn't follow reality

Never once said we shouldn’t use it, I just said authors don’t care about science hence why the whole beam thing u said wouldn’t mean a thing to them

 

[BlackeJan]

If they anime shows that they are screaming in pain then it would prove I’m right. As of now I will let u guys do whatever ya want

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

It doesn’t matter if they scream if they aren’t damaged or injured by the attack...

 

[GuildZero]

Again. Anime trope of characters taking damage then getting right back up….how blind???? nothing indicated that they were blind by the attack but yeah again if u want to ignore the fact of the picture engulfing them + the anime trope the sure we’ll go with that

You call me blind but ignore the fact that base wendy took the attack and showed no signs of damage nor did anyone. You previously said they were looking like they were in pain but was blind that no one but lucy even showed anything. And lucy who 2 pages ago was shown being blinded and after they attack was shown recovering from being blind not damaged.

And you cant just say it is a troupe of characters getting damaged and getting back up. Because here no one takes damage or shows any signs of being damaged. In fact they show no signs of taking damage through out the entire fight. They look exactly the same as they were shown in the beginning of the chapter by the end of the fight.

 

[BlackeJan]

It doesn’t matter if they scream if they aren’t damaged or injured by the attack...

What. Bruh Nani the heck. If they scream from an attack that obviously means they are in pain….again u have used arguments about people scaling to others because they were in pain. Are u to tell me that if I get hit in the head from a baseball and there’s no injury even though I felt pain then that means I’m more durable then it???

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What. Bruh Nani the heck. If they scream from an attack that obviously means they are in pain….again u have used arguments about people scaling to others because they were in pain. Are u to tell me that if I get hit in the head from a baseball and there’s no injury even though I felt pain then that means I’m more durable then it???

It doesn't even matter to the scaling, Base Wraith still does more damage to Base Natsu anyways, Alta Face's Beam does little to no damage, while Base Wraith damages Natsu and flat out knocks him out with Dragon Spirit, also Natsu screams harder from that attack, since apparently that matters to you

 

[GuildZero]

Wait when did they scream. They get hit but they don't scream

 

[BlackeJan]

It doesn't even matter to the scaling, Base Wraith still does more damage to Base Natsu anyways, Alta Face's Beam does little to no damage, while Base Wraith damages Natsu and flat out knocks him out with Dragon Spirit, also Natsu screams harder from that attack, since apparently that matters to you

Like I said. If the anime shows them in pain then I was correct

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait when did they scream. They get hit but they don't scream

From that image yeah it’s easy to tell they were screaming in pain but it’s best to see how it is in the anime

 

[GuildZero]

From that image yeah it’s easy to tell they were screaming in pain but it’s best to see how it is in the anime

Bro that is gonna be a long time.

 

[BlackeJan]

Bro that is gonna be a long time.

I know hence why I said y’all can do whatever u want now but if the anime comes out and they are in pain then it shows I was correct

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Sure you can be right in a year. Only if they show injuries tho cuz pain =/= overcoming durability.

 

[Eseseso]

With only 1 disagreeing vote, all we need is some more staff to look at this and we should be good.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

All spriggans be Island level

 

[ShadowGun45]

I agree with zackra as well

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dang, none of the staff I asked are responding... Well we keep waiting, we at least need 1-2 more staff approval

 

[Eseseso]

Dang, none of the staff I asked are responding... Well we keep waiting, we at least need 1-2 more staff approval

Do we absolutely have to get more than 1 staff member? I mean, you're the de facto Head of all Fairy Tail Affairs.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Do we absolutely have to get more than 1 staff member? I mean, you're the de facto Head of all Fairy Tail Affairs.

Yes, I say we do need more staff members

 

[Theendzero13]

Darn.

Wait, since X793 FDKM Natsu will be 68.8 gigatons, which is 1/100,000,000 of Aldoron, then if Wolfen's statement is accepted, Aldoron and the other Dragon Gods will be equal to 6.88 exatons, while Human Form SBT Acnologia and Ignia's Power+FDKM Natsu would be 13.76 exatons, and Dragon Form SBT Acnologia and Seven Fire Dragon Mode Natsu would be 27.52 exatons (SO F*CKING CLOSE TO MOON LEVEL, THIS IS UNFAIR!!!).

I mean, since SBT Dragon Acnologia is above Seven Fire Dragon Mode Natsu, it wouldn't be impossible to upscale him to baseline moon level, but still.

Doubt the statement ever getting accepted aldoron could bot one-shot natsu and needing 100 million punchs to kill somebody does not immediately equals this somebody being 100 million times stronger than you

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Darn.

Wait, since X793 FDKM Natsu will be 68.8 gigatons, which is 1/100,000,000 of Aldoron, then if Wolfen's statement is accepted, Aldoron and the other Dragon Gods will be equal to 6.88 exatons, while Human Form SBT Acnologia and Ignia's Power+FDKM Natsu would be 13.76 exatons, and Dragon Form SBT Acnologia and Seven Fire Dragon Mode Natsu would be 27.52 exatons (SO F*CKING CLOSE TO MOON LEVEL, THIS IS UNFAIR!!!).

I mean, since SBT Dragon Acnologia is above Seven Fire Dragon Mode Natsu, it wouldn't be impossible to upscale him to baseline moon level, but still.

That's wrong, that statement doesn't mean that Aldoron is 100000000x stronger than FDKM Natsu, it means that it takes 100000000x FDKM Natsu's Power to defeat a Full Power Healthy Aldoron with 1 attack to kill him

It's not a valid multiplier unless someone one-shots and kills Aldoron

 

[Eseseso]

Oh. I had actually been wondering why that hadn't been used. Please disregard my previous statement.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am also fine with Zackra1799's proposals.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I am also fine with Zackra1799's proposals.

Thanks a bunch!

Ok, that's enough staff approval with 4 Staff Agreements

I will begin to apply the changes

 

[Eseseso]

Thanks a bunch!

Ok, that's enough staff approval with 4 Staff Agreements

I will begin to apply the changes

Yay!

And thanks to @Zackra1799 for making this all happen!