Fairy Tail - Magic possible weakness

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

After doing a bit of research and looking at the Manga I found something pretty interesting. I've noticed that in the Manga Magic itself has a weakness to High Heats, not in the sense that it's nulled by it but the magic quite literally burns away. I've noticed this with Atlas Flame whenever FT mages attacked him.


Natsu also does the same thing by burning the magic itself, so this seems like a weakness more than anything of Magic in general which would make sense since in the verse Magic isn't something that's intangible and clearly can be effected by high heats. I'll gather more scans and I'll have this moved to the Content Revisions board after I update this.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How is magic not intangible? Multiple people have magic that turn them intangible, like Laxus, Ajeel, Juvia,etc.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

How is magic not intangible? Multiple people have magic that turn them intangible, like Laxus, Ajeel, Juvia,etc.

That's a magical ability that allows them to do so. Magical attacks typically aren't intangible. It varies from magic to magic but for the most part they are tangible.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

"not in the sense that it's nulled by it but that the magic literally burns away"

So what would a magic being nulled looked like that would be different? The magic is nulled as the fire touches it. The power null doesn't make the entire magic attack disappear the second it gets touched by the flames.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Because the point is that it's being burned away rather than being nulled. If you want someone who nulls Magic and we can see that is Erza and her Nakagami armor. Meanwhile people like Natsu and Atlas Flame actually straight up burn the magic away with their heat, meaning that high Heats do indeed have a negative effect on Magic and this is shown multiple times.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

For Atlas Flame, isn't his body 7-A+ and covered in fire? For an attack made of magic which all dragons resist, it sizzling out just makes sense. Are there more examples that aren't from Natsu specifically?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

You can straight up negate attacks like that just from AP. If he tanked them that would be different but he literally burnt the magic away with his fire. The Dragon point you made doesn't mean anything either I'm afraid. Dragons don't negate Magic attacks like that, they're resistance and tank them making them ineffective. Meanwhile with Atlas he states that his flames are the reason why they can't harm him. The point here is that Magic can be negated by high temperatures such as Natsu's and Atlas Flame.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But by this logic Natsu would be able to passively melt everyone's magic easily. He was able to burn Magics back in the Nirvana arc and a year after the Tartaros arc his passive heat made by just being ready to fight melted an entire collisuem. Yet you don't see everyone's magic just burning away the second they activate it around him.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Because he wasn't targeting them nor did he intend on doing so. Again with Atlas he straight up states that his flames are the thing that's burning the Magic. The attack would need to be aimed at the source of the heat ( I.E everyone attacking Atlas, Natsu burning Zeros EE, Stings sealing and Zeref's magic. )

 

[DragonEmperor23]

He wasn't targeting the collisuem either. So are you saying the magic's weakness only activates by touching the source and the actual temperature doesn't matter?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Not at all. If the Magic is in direct contact with the source of the heat (I.E the actual flames, not the ambient heat generated from the fire itself. ) in other words the Magic needs to have direct contact with fire for it to burn away.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So how does the temperature of the fire come into play?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

How does it come into play? Are you asking for like a certain temperature? The Heat of the fire is always higher than the heat around the fire which is what is doing the burning here.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I mean, if you put in the Weaknesses: Magic gets burned away by high temperatures


What are you going to classify as High temperatures?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

This just means all Fire Dragon Slaying magic allows one to burn away magic, granting them power null, not that its a weakness of magic itself when other fire magic users never manage this.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It wouldn't be something that's on every FT profile since that would be lots or work. Simply place it under the Verse page and under Magic.


Magic can be burned away by Fire Manipulation

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

This just means all Fire Dragon Slaying magic allows one to burn away magic, granting them power null, not that its a weakness of magic itself when other fire magic users never manage this.

The temperature of the Fire is what matters. Atlas Flame doesn't posses Fire Dragon Slayer magic that's Natsu. They've both burnt away Magic due to thier heat, and no other fire user has interacted with Magic before nor are they anywhere near as Impressive as Natsu. Atlas Flame's fire Manipulation is a bit difficult to judge however since his fire doesn't have feats like Natsu does.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

No. Fire Dragon Slayers can burn away magic. Not just any fire user when absolutely no one ever makes mention of such a thing despite numerous fire magic users. Macao, Bora, Romeo, Makarov, Totomaru, Jellal, Zero/Brain. Not once is it ever mentioned or hinted that fire magic is a weakness of magic. The only situations it ever burns away magic is when used by a FDSM user. This can either be attributed to AP or hax.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But that's incorrect. Look at every time Natsu has fought someone and not instantly negated every single attack they had. If Fire Magic really oneshot everything else, then everyone and their mother would be using it.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Again Atlas Flame isn't a fire Dragon Slayer so your argument makes no sense in the slightest. Not just any fire user when absolutely no one ever makes mention of such a thing despite numerous fire magic users. and for this I could easily say the same exact thing, it's never stated that Fire Dragon Slayer Magic can burn away Magic. And none of the users you've mentioned has shown Fire Manipulation aside from Jellal who doesn't even use it in combat nor is it impressive. Again I repeat, Atlas Flame is NOT a Dragon Slayer nor does he use Fire Dragon Slayer and yet he managed to burn the magic away. It's not an AP feat, it's simply that Magic can be burnt away with sufficient fire.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Fire Dragon Slayer Magic = Fire Dragon Magic

They are the same thing.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

But that's incorrect. Look at every time Natsu has fought someone and not instantly negated every single attack they had. If Fire Magic really oneshot everything else, then everyone and their mother would be using it.

Everyone in FT doesn't have impressive fire Manipulation, again this is why I brought up the temperature. Natsu has been shown to melt stone and vaporize sand, nobody else in FT can do this. And Atlas Flame was capable of doing the same.

 

[Zensum]

I agree, it does look like magic is being burned rather than nulled.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Fire Dragon Slayer Magic = Fire Dragon Magic

They are the same thing.

They really aren't. Fire Dragon Slayer Magic is meant to kill Dragons. Dragons don't use that type of magic. And again, it's never stated that Fire Dragon Magic burns away Magic. And again, it's not being nulled away or dispersed. It's being burned away by sheer heat.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

No, it's not. FSDM is literally just FDM being used by a human. When a Dragon teaches a human dragon slayer magic, they aren't inventing something new, they're straight up teaching them their magic.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

https://fairytail.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_Dragon_Slayer_Magic


And it's different for Humans as compared to when Dragons use them. Whenever a Dragon uses thier magic against another Dragon they don't bypass thier durability or negate resistance. Unlike with Fire Dragon Slayer Magic, there's a clear difference between the two. They both also have different usages and different feats of effectiveness.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's explained in the Alvarez arc when we see the origin of Dragon Slayers.


As you can see here, Irene is given Dragon Magic by Belserion. The reason Why it is called Dragon Slayer Magic is because they did it to kill the evil dragons.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Atlas Flame's case can easily be put down to him being stronger. For Natsu, I don't know how you get rid of time magic with sheer heat alone. Just seems like massive reaching, so I'm gonna agree with him retaining the ability and this is coming from someone that has issues with how the ability is treated sometimes.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, just in case it wasn't clear, I disagree with this change as well.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Dragons aren't Dragon Slayers. They use the same magic yes, but it's utilized in a completely different manor. Dragon Slayer Magic and Dragon Magic is never stated to be able to burn away Magic, and again Atlas Flame was able to burn the Magic of other Dragon Slayer Magic away. Laxus doesn't negate Lightning magic, Natsu doesn't negate fire magic, etc. It's made clear and evident that that temperature of the Fire is what effects the magic. Magic can also be frozen. And AP has nothing to do with this, stronger character don't suddenly burn attacks away from weaker characters in FT.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

You don't need a statement of something to prove it when it's visible. Natsu limited flight via feet rocket boosters but that was added with a image of him doing it not because someone said it out loud. Besides, Zeref literally says that Natsu is burning away his soul and his magic. It's not like souls have a weakness to fire.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

That's a completely different subject, not to mention another Golden Mean Fallacy. Magic in FT aren't like souls where they're usually intangible. Meanwhile Magic has been shown to be tangible and effected by high Heats and can even get frozen.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

My point was that Natsu ,whose examples are half of your arguments, has flames that can burn things that can't normally be burned. The only one left is Atlas who has a higher dura than those who attacked him to the point where his saying it was because of his flames can be written off when the same thing happened to literally every other Dragon that was there. It's not like we're giving him Hellfire because that's what he calls his magic.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

We don't give him Hellfire Manipulation since his flames don't meet that criteria, and if you ask me I honestly think having Hellfire Manipulation is pretty redundant whenever you can just have that as a sub ability of Fire Manipulation. And Natsu's flame manipulation isn't apart of his abilities, it's the sheer heat of his magic. Ranging from melting stone, Vaporizing sand and being able to burn magic. And no they can't be written off as such whenever he states that himself and how it's consistent with Natsu being able to do the same.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah and saying that the entire verse's power system has to be revised off of his single statement isn't enough. You can't burn souls through sheer heat though. That proves that Natsu's flames are the exception. You still haven't explained why he hasn't burned through every single attack since the Nirvana arc.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It's not a single statement, it's also Natsu. Along with that fact that Zeref stating Natsu's soul in on fire shouldn't even be taken seriously FT is known for its hyperbolic language and how Zeref can't even tell what's happening with Natsu's soul. It would be different if Natsu was the one stating it but he isn't. I'll make a separate CRT in the near future for that since that alone is completely ridiculous. And that doesn't prove that Natsu's soul Manipulation is the exception whenever he's only done that once. All the other times he's done it through heat like him melting the stadium, Vaporizing sand and Stings sealing. And again temperature is key here. Natsu's flames are very inconsistent to how hot they are, they can go from melting stone and Vaporizing sand to not being able to melt metal and not working under water. The emphasis on the temperature of the fire here is what matters.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But you're arguing that it's not power nullification and the magic has a weakness to fire because of what it looks like when it gets burned. That wouldn't even make any sense in verse. Magic comes from Ethernano in the atmosphere and is stored in the body's container. Why on earth would that randomly have a weakness to high temperatures? You think August who is so skilled he can copy magic the moment they're used with the moniker of King of magic and Irene the several hundred year old sage didn't realize that Fire Magic was the best possible thing to use? Now that you've mentioned the heat of Natsu's fire being different, there's nothing that even proves his flames were hotter when he did the power nullification than normally. The ice comparison doesn't fit either. Something doesn't need a weakness to ice to be able to be frozen. At best this proves that the magic isn't intangible but no one ever said or thought that it was.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The melting stone and vaporising sand were in two different forms so that means nothing, fire not working underwater makes perfect sense, which metal was he failing to melt? Because he pulled it off back at the start against Taurus.

Hyperbolic language like?

Natsu isn't needed to state things if we can clearly see it happening or a far more knowledgeable character tells us so.

Those are also completely physical things that are nothing like burning time, death waves or existence erasure. Why does temperature matter when that has never been stated or hinted to be a weakness of magic.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

What a downplay.

 

[BlackeJan]

What is going on here?