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Fairy Tail: Magic Has Soul!

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We have reached over 150+ posts, and almost none of them have anything to do with the topic.

So far we have had people agreeing with the main topic or staying neutral, we don't have anyone who disagrees with it. I will get a some staff to look at this, so we can be done with this thread. It has been derailed like crazy, and some of those derailing is also my fault.
 
Can somebody give a TLDR summary of the discussion and conclusions here?
 
fairy tail characters have a limited, yet non-combat applicable soul manipulation due to a speech from makarov and franmalth absorbing magic. We also derailed a lot by discussing the legitimacy of Zeref's resistance since there's contradiction, but that would be saved for another CRT.
 
Theglassman12 said:
We also derailed a lot by discussing the legitimacy of Zeref's resistance since there's contradiction, but that would be saved for another CRT.
Click to expand...
Someone should make that and post the scans displaying the contradiction. I had argued we only used things we could prove in the thread that added the resistances, so if something is provably contradicted it must be removed.
 
If magic is simply partially empowered by the soul, should it really count as soul manipulation for affecting an indirect effect rather than the soul itself? It seems like something that will easily get misunderstood and exaggerated later on.

For example, Natsu causes a fire and somebody douses it with ice manipulation. Now it is suddenly soul manipulation to do so as well.
 
It's weird because Franmalth's ability is to absorb souls. When he was being attacked by Natsu's magic, he absorbed the magic and stated he absorbed the magical soul.
 
Well, he should probably have the ability then. I am just doubtful about scaling soul manipulation to every Fairy Tail magician.

It feels like if I empower a searchlight with my feet while driving my bike, I should suddenly have electricity manipulation, although in reverse.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure about this. Wouldn't this make, fire for example, to have different properties and thus cannot be simply extinguished by regular means like a common fire?

Cuz this stuffs sounds controversial tbh.
 
Zeref demon wasn't able to kill him, thats, why he make E.N.D.both scan, stated it clearly, zeref created them assuming that they can kill him, but he failed,means he is immune/resistance to those curse/hax, each time he make a better demon in hope to kill him but he failed agains and again until he make end

Screenshot 20180924-105906
Screenshot 20180924-105911
 
For the "magic have soul" thing I am neutral on it, its more like naruto chakra thing where they mix their spiritual power weaponize chakra,in ft they use there soul to weaponize magic(i could be wrong)but Only

  • Natsu
  • gray/silver
  • dragon slayer
  • dragon
  • acnologia
  • csk(since he is the ruler of spirit, and erase zoldio because he break law)
Soul manipulation is combat applicable. Also other than acnologia no other dragon showed soul manipulation power in combat. Now people like gildarts can break someone magic but he can't break someone soul(otherwise it become an existence eraser attack). So erza,gildarts like people have non-combat applicable soul manipulation
 
You are right about the Chakra equivalency, they do mix spiritual power and stamina to make it. Makarov did say it was a mixture of energy, their soul and such. I'm now neutral as well, it doesn't seem set in stone and Homu and Ant raise good points on how out of control this kind of scaling gets, it wouldn't make all that much sense when you realize the ramification of applying soul manipulation to every single magical ability.
 
@IMade

Agreed. I think that this seems like a bad idea.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
You are right about the Chakra equivalency, they do mix spiritual power and stamina to make it. Makarov did say it was a mixture of energy, their soul and such. I'm now neutral as well, it doesn't seem set in stone and Homu and Ant raise good points on how out of control this kind of scaling gets, it wouldn't make all that much sense when you realize the ramification of applying soul manipulation to every single magical ability.
Click to expand...
Yeah, only the people who show soul manipulation and resistance should get, soul manipulation/resistance
 
If each magical attack has a piece of the users soul contained inside it, and someone else is able to destroy his magic then that person has limited soul manipulation for being able to destroy the soul inside his magic. It's not that different then someone destroying a piece of roaming soul.

They can't effect the souls inside other characters, but they can effect the pieces of souls outside or used in attacks. So yes, in a way it's still can be used in combat.

@Antvasima

It's not that every magic is being empowered by the soul, rather it's that every magic contains a piece of the users soul. That's how franmalth was able to absorb natsu's magic, he did it by absorbing the soul inside his magic. We also see this same thing with atlas flames in the giant village, his hellfire still had a piece of his soul contained inside it.
 
Fairy tail magic and will
Fairy tail magic and will 2
When wendy was talking about atlas flames's magic in the giant viliage, she also talked about how his thoughts were based on his will.
So this brings us back to what makarov said about magic, and how they use their force of will.

So in fairy tail, magic seem to be more than just ethernano being used. Rather it's the combination of many different things, it has a piece of the users soul and their will.
 
IMO, only characters that are capable of destroying magic should have limited soul manipulation. Magic isn't a piece of the soul, it contains that. So only characters that are capable of interacting with magic on a more fundamental level, like slayers and Gildarts should have it.
 
I still do not think that characters who cannot directly attack or manipulate the souls of others should be given this ability. It seems too exaggerated. If I build up some static electricity, that does not give me Electricity Manipulation.
 
Wouldn't it not be soul manipulation/destruction, rather just the fact that they make their souls vulernable by pulling it out their bodies and into magic attacks that can be destroyed?
 
They're not putting their whole soul inside their magic, that would just kill them. But rather a piece of it. We see this with atlas flames, and natsu's magic. They only contained a piece of the users soul.

@Antvasima

No one is saying that they can control souls, but rather they can destroy a piece of it. Soul destruction is still part of soul manipulation, unless we make a new page for it.

Every magic has a piece of the users soul and their will, and destroying it is not different then destroying a piece of soul roaming around.
 
I still think everyone in the verse should get non physical interaction because of the celestial spirits being real spirits, but that's a another arguement for a another day. I might make a CRT for it.

If you're able to destroy a soul, doesn't that mean you're able to interact with it?. correct me if i'm wrong.
 
I disagree with giving everyone non physical interaction in the verse, otherwise they would be able to hit those who are intangible in verse such as Bloodman, Laxus and Ajeel. I do also have issues with giving everyone soul manipulation, we don't give Naruto characters soul manipulation for something that's arguably more believable than this. We don't do the same for Haki either, so I disagree with the proposed changes.
 
Yes, all of this seems quite unreliable.
 
@Rin

No one is argueing for non physical interaction on this thread, that's a whole another topic that needs a CRT of its own.

Also no one is giving them soul manipulation, rather we're giving them limited soul manipulation for being able to destroy a "piece" of soul inside a magic ability.

Soul destruction falls under the category of soul manipulation. If a character is able to destroy a soul, then that character will get soul manipulation.
 
I still fail to see how this can be classified as our standards for Soul Destruction. As far as I'm aware this isn't soul destruction, as that would imply they can destroy the soul in one attack which isn't the case here. Limited or minor Soul Manipulation seems more appropriate.
 
@Rin

Destroying someone else's magic, will result in also destroying the soul inside the magic. This is indeed soul destruction. But since the soul that is being destroyed is only a small piece, it's becomes "limited" soul manipulation, and not soul manipulation.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Magic isn't the soul itself, it's apart of the soul. A piece of the soul, at best this is very very limited Soul Destruction.
Click to expand...
....That's literally what they are suggesting...
 
@Rin

Fairy tail magic
Fairy tail magic and will
In fairy tail magic is the combination of the users ethernano, a piece of his soul and his will. We see this in 3 different places.
Ethernano: It's the energy in which mages/magical creatures use to preform magic, it's in the atmosphere and can be absorbed to restort magic power.

Soul: We see this when franmalth used his curse ability on natsu's magic, and absorbed the soul inside it and gained his ability. We also see this in the giant viliage with atlas flames's hellfire, it contained a piece of his soul.

Will: it also caries the users thoughts. It was first said by makarov when he was talking about the nature of magic, he called it force of will. It was later explained by wendy, in which she stated it was the residual thought of the user.

All these 3 things make up of what we call magic in the fairy tail verse. Destroying it will mean you also destroyed the piece of soul that makes up the magic. In a another words, limited soul manipulation and if you're able to eat it then limited soul absorption.
 
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