Fairy Tail: M.G.F Downgrade

[Alsotime]

((Not to take credit for this revision or anything, it was something someone pointed out on a different forum

Wall's Magic Confinement Fusion is stated to be 200 million degress Celsius because of it being stated to be a play on words of a magnetic confinement fusion, and being stated to pack a lot of power, which would in part come from said heat, Natsu's flames is stated to scale above this because of Invel statement of him being the only person who could melt his ice, which would logically place him above Wall's MCF heat.

This should be revised though, because the only time a statement of it being a play on Magnetic Confinement Fusion, or it packing a lot of power is made by the translator, it isn't a statement via WOG that is being made to indicate its power, but a translator trying to explain something to make it more clear for an audience whose heads it might have went over.

This temperature revision would obviously downgrade people like Natsu, Igneel, and Ignia's heat temperature and lower the power resistance of people like Laxus or Gray, who have a resistance to said abilities.

Edit: replaced image for first link since it was blurry

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah if that statement just comes from a translator note and isn't an author note, then it needs to go. But I'm going to wait and see what Mitch has to say.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don’t see how this debunks anything… The Manga still has Wall using Magic Confinement Fusion. The translator is just clarifying what that is, but Wall doing Nuclear Fusion is still what is happening in-manga

So yeah, this doesn’t neg anything

 

[Alsotime]

Abilities don't get rating based off of their names though, if it is made legitimate by Mashima stating its power, but he never did that, then it being called magic confinement fusion is just technobabble, it shouldn't be treated as the exact same as magnetic confinement fusion when the similarity is never actually pointed out anywhere in the series besides the two having similar names

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Abilities don't get rating based off of their names though, if it is made legitimate by Mashima stating its power, but he never did that, then it being called magic confinement fusion is just technobabble, it shouldn't be treated as the exact same as magnetic confinement fusion when the similarity is never actually pointed out anywhere in the series besides the two having similar names

The translator is literally going out of his way to say this is what Hiro means tho

It’s the same process of fusion, just used with magic

 

[CloverDragon03]

The translator is explaining what Hiro means, it's not as if the translator just came up with this himself and said "haha that's a neat connection."

Disagree with the OP

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Essentially the translator is going out of his way to say that Hiro is having Wall do the same thing, just with Magic instead of Plasma

That note would not be there if that was a lie and Hiro didn’t intend for Magic Confinement Fusion to be the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Just because someone translates the manga does not mean that he knows everything, specifically details like this one. It is even unlikely that the translator has contact with the author

 

[CloverDragon03]

Just because someone translates the manga does not mean that he knows everything, specifically details like this one. It is even unlikely that the translator has contact with the author

It's literally a clarification of what's meant by the author, like come on now...

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Natsu Slams

 

[Alsotime]

It's literally a clarification of what's meant by the author, like come on now...

When the abilities justification is (Can perform Magic Confinement Fusion, which is said to be the same as real life Magnetic Confinement Fusion, which produces temperatures of 200 Million Degrees Celsius" but it being said to be the same is by a third party that isn't a character in the series or the creator, it should be removed.

That note would not be there if that was a lie and Hiro didn’t intend for Magic Confinement Fusion to be the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion

The notes have nothing to do with Hiro's intention, Bloodman's name being misspelled wasn't an intention of Hiro's, yet it was note, the notes are based entirely on the will of what the translator wants to explain or clarify, they are completely independent of Mashima

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I'm confused on how exactly anything the translator wrote is explaining what the author means in this situation?

Did the author give any explanation which the translator just translated or is it a situation like if an attack was called "Magic Hole" and there's literally no statement from the author himself or within the work itself which says anything about it being exactly 1 to 1 with an irl Black hole then a translator basically gives an explanation for what a black hole does

 

[CloverDragon03]

When the abilities justification is (Can perform Magic Confinement Fusion, which is said to be the same as real life Magnetic Confinement Fusion, which produces temperatures of 200 Million Degrees Celsius" but it being said to be the same is by a third party that isn't a character in the series or the creator, it should be removed.

The translator is there to clarify Mashima's intent

No, it should not be removed

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

When the abilities justification is (Can perform Magic Confinement Fusion, which is said to be the same as real life Magnetic Confinement Fusion, which produces temperatures of 200 Million Degrees Celsius" but it being said to be the same is by a third party that isn't a character in the series or the creator, it should be removed.

The notes have nothing to do with Hiro's intention, Bloodman's name being misspelled wasn't an intention of Hiro's, yet it was note, the notes are based entirely on the will of what the translator wants to explain or clarify, they are completely independent of Mashima

It’s called Magic Confinement Fusion in the manga irregardless of the translator note. The translator is just clarifying what Hiro meant, why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Alsotime]

is it a situation like if an attack was called "Magic Hole" and there's literally no statement from the author himself or within the work itself which says anything about it being exactly 1 to 1 with an irl Black hole then a translator basically gives an explanation for what a black hole does

This

 

[CloverDragon03]

This

Objectively wrong. We even have a spell in verse called "Black Hole" so this example is meaningless.

It's directly stated to be 1 to 1. This thread, quite frankly, shouldn't be a thing

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not too invested in FT, and I think the translator's note is pretty valid for clarifying what is going on with Wall.

But the original translator's note from the volume doesn't provide the figure of 200 million degrees. If we're going to use that as a specific figure, then it needs to be sourced to a proper scientific source, not a screenshot with someone claiming the figure of "200 million". That's all.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This

No… Hole is a super broad term that has no defined meaning to it at all. Magic Confinement Fusion is very explicitly keeping the Confinement Fusion part, which involves confinement and fusion of magic power. The translator is simply saying that this represents the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion. Irregardless of the translator, the Magic Confinement Fusion is being used in Manga, which is a direct correlation to Magnetic Confinement Fusion.

Nothing said here has changed anything, it’s still the same bloody process. What kind of headass would see Magic Confinement Fusion and think it means something completely different

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not too invested in FT, and I think the translator's note is pretty valid for clarifying what is going on with Wall.

But the original translator's note from the volume doesn't provide the figure of 200 million degrees. If we're going to use that as a specific figure, then it needs to be sourced to a proper scientific source, not a screenshot with someone claiming the figure of "200 million". That's all.

The profile has a link to a verified Princeton study on Magnetic Confinement Fusion that lists the process as 200 million degrees Celsius

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not too invested in FT, and I think the translator's note is pretty valid for clarifying what is going on with Wall.

But the original translator's note from the volume doesn't provide the figure of 200 million degrees. If we're going to use that as a specific figure, then it needs to be sourced to a proper scientific source, not a screenshot with someone claiming the figure of "200 million". That's all.

It is currently properly sited to an officially scientifically fact checked website that describes entirely what Magnetic Confinement is and what temperature it needs to be to be performed at all

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Objectively wrong. We even have a spell in verse called "Black Hole"

I was giving an analogy in order to get further clarification on the situation so that's kinda irrelevant to my question

All I'm asking is if mashima himself/the actual manga actually provided any part of the explained or if all that was given from him himself/the actual series is just the name itself.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You're creating an arbitrary requirement. The fact that these come from people behind the official translations of the manga makes this valid on its own. It being a clarification of what is intended by Mashima helps

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The 200 million degrees is the temperature needed to generate energy used magnetic CF. To me that t/n isn't claiming that they are 1 to 1 or exactly the same, but rather making a claim that magic CF is mechanically similar and a reference to magnetic CF. I'm still cool with a the 200 mill temp being a possibly rating for what it's worth tho.

If the majority are in favor of taking the t/n to mean magic CF is literally magnetic CF then that's cool too.

 

[Alsotime]

Objectively wrong. We even have a spell in verse called "Black Hole"

Im not following? They were using that as an example for what could possibly be happening here, I just pointed that yes thats basically what's happening here, which yes it is.

why is this so hard to understand?

Something being named after something doesn't necessarily mean it would follow the exact same mechanics and work throughs of it's name sake though, which is my point.

 

[Maitreya12]

I agree with Mitch and Clover’s reasoning.

Translators often put little notes or tidbits about information relating to kanji or other such matters for clarification purposes for the audiences.

So if an ability is presented relating to nuclear fusion by the author, and the translator is going out of his way to clarify what that specific power or ability entails for better understanding to the audience, I can see that as valid evidence given it’s just clarification on an already pre-existing ability.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Also, the heat of 200 million is only achieved at the very beginning of the reaction, and after any expansion even 1 millimeter the heat drops drastically, so that should also be put into consideration, so it should be decided if the heat is for the entire attack or just the ignition of the attack As the translator's note is accepted as valid

 

[CloverDragon03]

Im not following? They were using that as an example for what could possibly be happening here, I just pointed that yes thats basically what's happening here, which yes it is.

Something being named after something doesn't necessarily mean it would follow the exact same mechanics and work throughs of it's name sake though, which is my point.

The thing is, after it's explained what the process is, the note says "In short, Wall is charging up a lot of power." This in itself means the two processes are being likened to one another, as the process of Magnetic Confinement Fusion is thus being linked to what Wall is doing

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, the heat of 200 million is only achieved at the very beginning of the reaction, and after any expansion even 1 millimeter the heat drops drastically, so that should also be put into consideration, so it should be decided if the heat is for the entire attack or just the ignition of the attack

Let's just say with the statements and such going around, this doesn't change anything

 

[Alsotime]

You're creating an arbitrary requirement. The fact that these come from people behind the official translations of the manga makes this valid on its own. It being a clarification of what is intended by Mashima helps

Except the official translations aren't word of god and are prone to mistakes, there even instances here where we disregard the official translators, following that point why should one of the translators pointing out a similarity between a real world concept and one in series be taken at an exact face value when we disregard their translations?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Except the official translations aren't word of god and are prone to mistakes, there even instances here where we disregard the official translators, following that point why should one of the translators pointing out a similarity between a real world concept and one in series be taken at an exact face value when we disregard their translations?

We've never disregarded official translations in Fairy Tail before so this is a moot point. Also, it's not just "hey, look at this similarity." As I mentioned before, it's legit also explaining what exactly Wall's doing. This argument doesn't hold up at all

 

[PrinceofPein]

Let's just say with the statements and such going around, this doesn't change anything

if the claim is that the attack behaves like a nuclear reaction, then it does change the fact that a nuclear reaction is only at that heat at the beginning and any expansion no matter how small drops the heat, so it means Wall's magic is not at that temperature all through but rather at the ignition stage

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Except the official translations aren't word of god and are prone to mistakes, there even instances here where we disregard the official translators, following that point why should one of the translators pointing out a similarity between a real world concept and one in series be taken at an exact face value when we disregard their translations?

We’ve been stingy about official translations when the exact meaning isn’t clear. Like when someone is stated to have “equal” power or someone is “comparable” to someone else. We fact check these statements. But something like Magic Confinement Fusion is so direct, it isn’t even funny. The translatir is literally just pointing out the connection to us. That doesn’t change the fact that Wall is performing nuclear fusion here.

 

[Alsotime]

We've never disregarded official translations in Fairy Tail before so this is a moot point. Also, it's not just "hey, look at this similarity." As I mentioned before, it's legit also explaining what exactly Wall's doing. This argument doesn't hold up at all

A couple months ago, it was explained to me that we take Haku's light speed statement at face value, despite the fact that official translations point to something else, while that isn't a problem because it was pointed out the translators have mistranslated things that are vital to the series before (like viernes element), it shows that something being by the official translators doesn't make it a end all be all thing that you have to accept

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

A couple months ago, it was explained to me that we take Haku's light speed statement at face value, despite the fact that official translations point to something else, while that isn't a problem because it was pointed out the translators have mistranslated things that are vital to the series before (like viernes element), it shows that something being by the official translators doesn't make it a end all be all thing that you have to accept

See, you’re missing the point here. We needed Haku’s statement to be clarified, but we didn’t discard it. We still use that statement, we just had to fact check what it actually meant. Magic Confinement Fusion is still Confinement Fusion irregardless.

There two different kinds of statements. One is about comparing speed to an actual speed IRL. When this is just a flat out comparison to Magnetic Confinement Fusion

 

[Alsotime]

Like when someone is stated to have “equal” power or someone is “comparable” to someone else. We fact check these statements. But something like Magic Confinement Fusion is so direct, it isn’t even funny. The translatir is literally just pointing out the connection to us. That doesn’t change the fact that Wall is performing nuclear fusion here.

I just don't see why a translator saying he's about to pack a lot of power and making the assumption that he is holding it together via magic just because magic is used to replace the word magnetic is something that means this is a clear 1:1 process, because it really doesn't.

 

[Alsotime]

When this is just a flat out comparison to Magnetic Confinement Fusion

Even to this point though, the only comparison is by a translator in a translator's note, the comparison isn't actually done by anybody in the series or the series creator, atleast with Haku hes the one making the statement, Wall didn't say this is like Magnetic Confinement Fusion, he said Magic Confinement Fusion ignited, and the translator made the assumption that it was a flat out recreation of magnetic confinement fusion, that we then used under the assumption it was a statement by Mashima, which it wasn't.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I just don't see why a translator saying he's about to pack a lot of power and making the assumption that he is holding it together via magic just because magic is used to replace the word magnetic is something that means this is a clear 1:1 process, because it really doesn't.

He explains this process of Magnetic Confinement Fusion and then basically says "So in short, Wall is charging a lot of power," which directly links what Wall's doing to Magnetic Confinement Fusion itself

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Even to this point though, the only comparison is by a translator in a translator's note, the comparison isn't actually done by anybody in the series or the series creator, atleast with Haku hes the one making the statement, Wall didn't say this is like Magnetic Confinement Fusion, he said Magic Confinement Fusion ignited, and the translator made the assumption that it was a flat out recreation of magnetic confinement fusion, that we then used under the assumption it was a statement by Mashima, which it wasn't.

The translator, whose job it is to literally reference and point out what is being said in the series is saying this is what Hiro meant when Wall said this

Also be honest with me, if Magic Confinement Fusion isn’t Magnetic Confinement Fusion, then what is it? Are you saying it’s just some random completely unrelated concept?

 

[Alsotime]

Are you saying it’s just some random completely unrelated concept?

I'm saying that while it can have a similar name, it very clearly isn't exactly the same, and therefore shouldn't get scaled based off of something it isn't.

f Magic Confinement Fusion isn’t Magnetic Confinement Fusion, then what is it?

Its magic confinement fusion, whatever that entails for it, is something the author should've explained, either during his afterword that he uses, or in the manga scene it appeared in

The translator, whose job it is to literally reference and point out what is being said in the series is saying this is what Hiro meant when Wall said this

The translator's job is to translate what is being said in the series that is true, but when said translator makes inferences that were never actually stated or shown in series, we don't take their opinion as fact.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm saying that while it can have a similar name, it very clearly isn't exactly the same, and therefore shouldn't get scaled based off of something it isn't.

"Very clearly" Based on what?

Its magic confinement fusion, whatever that entails for it, is something the author should've explained, either during his afterword that he uses, or in the manga scene it appeared in

Again, you're creating an arbitrary requirement that doesn't need to be fulfilled in order for this to be taken as a fact

The translator's job is to translate what is being said in the series that is true, but when said translator makes inferences that were never actually stated or shown in series, we don't take their opinion as fact.

You're claiming it's merely an inference rather than clarifying what is meant within the series, which is entirely unfounded