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Fairy Tail - Heat Downgrade and Debunks

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Damage3245 said:
Yes, but we don't see that Wall is capable of weaponizing this assumed 200 million degree heat.
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It's quite simple to prove Natsu scales to this since fairy tail uses a UES. Wall's magic is what's capable of containing that 200 million degree heat, Base Natsu's own fire manip was capable of mostly negating August's fire magic who is above wall, so combining that with Invels own statement about Natsu being the only one capable of melting his ice, his fire magic would scale above Walls containment.
 
Damage3245 said:
How does that page show that the attack has 200 million degree heat?
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Literally look at Zackra’s post again. This is a feat that cannot be replicated under the extreme temperatures of nuclear warheads. And not only that, Natsu’s own casual fire can vaporize sand, making it comparable in temperature to lightning. Again, this is casual.
 
And not to mention, Zackra has summed up why the translator thing is perfectly valid. There’s nothing going against its validity except pure headcanon

There’s a reason this kinda thread was rejected before…
 
Zackra1799 said:
who is capable of producing heat hot enough to burn the sky, which isn't even possible even under the extreme temperatures of nuclear warheads.
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I don't want to go into this thread, but nukes do have that kind of temperature and heat (sort of) within a few hundred metre radius, but it's deposited as radiation and doesn't cause extraneous reactions beyond that.

Edit: Correction, a few hundred metres is an assumption.

Unless I'm mistaken, this attack can't exactly be compared due to the difference in scale and directionality.

Again, I'm not saying anything for or against the OP here, I just disagree with this.
 
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Looking at the anime, I stand corrected. It is a very large, radially expanding explosion. I thought it was a blast (I forgot that manga panels are left to right for a sec there).

So, maybe it's valid. Idk, but I don't think so because it's not generating energy from the air.
 
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ByAsura said:
I don't want to go into this thread, but nukes do have that kind of temperature and heat (sort of) within a few hundred metre radius,
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Within less than a meter of it, it only at the epicenter that the temperature reaches that, any expansion even 0.001mm drops the heat value drastically.

So if we are to follow real life scenario, no one scales to heat either way.
I agree with the OP btw
 
Point is Wall does magic confinement fusion, which superheats plasma to create an increase in energy. Natsu’s heat scales above that by all accounts. Wall doesn’t even need to fire off an attack as the point is that he’s producing these heats within his own body, and Natsu scales above that. Natsu also simply emmits heat from his body to melt Invel’s ice. He doesn’t even use an attack to generate this level of hest. Also Natsu’s was capable of breaking down and burning away literal conceptual time… Wall ain’t doing that

It seems Rusty and Damage are confused about the information being presented here. The reason it is the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion is because the translator isn’t giving his opinion, he’s verbatim saying what Wall is doing. He says the process is the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion. That’s not him giving an opinion. That’s him just stating Hiro’s intentions. Like Zackra said, he’s a qualified source by being hired by Kodansha and these explanations exist SOLELY to clarify to english speakers what is going on.

Fact of the matter is that Wall produces a system the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion, which involves the same superheating provess. This system is a 200 million degree process. Characters such as Natsu have heat levels and energy levels above this character. And is a character far more well known for producing immense heat. Most arguments against this are those who doubt the legitimacy of all this and that’s it. They don’t have any actual proof outside of “I don’t trust this statement”.

This is the same exact argument as last thread and nothing has changed… I thought people would have understood that and why this thread can be closed
 
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Not a FT supporter, nor am I interested in the arguments but...

If a thread like this was rejected already, and no new arguments have been brought forward, then this should be closed logically. I would even recommend FT supporters maybe try to create a discussion rule if this keeps cropping up every now and then,
 
Quantu said:
Not a FT supporter, nor am I interested in the arguments but...

If a thread like this was rejected already, and no new arguments have been brought forward, then this should be closed logically. I would even recommend FT supporters maybe try to create a discussion rule if this keeps cropping up every now and then,
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I proposed the creation of a discussion rule earlier in the thread. I’d really rather not deal with the same arguments over and over again
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Point is Wall can does magic confinement fusion, which superheats plasma to create an increase in energy. Natsu’s heat scales above that by all accounts. Wall doesn’t even need to fire off an attack as the point is that he’s producing these heats within his own body, and Natsu scales above that. Natsu also simply emmits heat from his body to melt Invel’s ice. He doesn’t even use an attack to generate this level of hest. Also Natsu’s was capable of breaking down and burning away literal conceptual time… Wall ain’t doing that
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My point was that if Wall doesn't actually emit 200 million degrees heat, but that's just the heat inside of his "containment magic" for lack of a better term, then the heat he creates through that method wouldn't be relevant to Invel's ice.

The burning away conceptual time thing is a better point for Natsu than that IMO.
 
I propose we add the rule as well… I didn’t think we’d have to, but that’s how the cookie crumbles I guess
 
Damage3245 said:
My point was that if Wall doesn't actually emit 200 million degrees heat, but that's just the heat inside of his "containment magic" for lack of a better term, then the heat he creates through that method wouldn't be relevant to Invel's ice.

The burning away conceptual time thing is a better point for Natsu than that IMO.
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He produces that level of heat and uses it to attack. We see this. He also produces heat based and energy based explosions. One of which can nuke an entire country. So to the people who say that a character in a magic verse can’t generate these kinds of attacks and weaponize them them at immense levels, they absolutely can. I mean Wall literally does have a nuke on hand… Like he is very clearly producing heat levels that he can weaponize
 
Burning the sky isn't that impressive the heat of aligning or even
speedster352 said:
But air burns: the flame temperature of natural gas in air, you'll probably find a value between 3,400 and 3,600°F (1,871 and 1,982°C). Not very impressive
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This would be enough
 
That's not the temperature to 'burn' air, and, even if it was, the core temperature would still be way higher due to distance losses.
 
ByAsura said:
That's not the temperature to 'burn' air, and, even if it was, the core temperature would still be way higher due to distance losses.
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But the heat of Lightning can scorch the sky also the sun can do that if it's close enough and it's only 5k celius in heat
 
In temperature. There's a huge, huge difference, and you haven't even addressed my point.

But I don't want to get side tracked.
 
Explosions expand radially, meaning their energy decreases significantly.

For example, if you're a metre away from a stovetop, you can barely feel the heat compared to being right next to it.
 
Zackra1799 said:
This idea that the translator is unreliable is entirely baseless considering that all of fairy tail's translations are done in-house by Kodansha who has both a copyright and trademark on the series, and considering the amount of material outside of the original manga that is considered canon, I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that this singular translator is solely responsible for published volume translation notes as there were likely several people that had to review the work done in order to get an incredibly popular manga translation into publication. So, unless there's something wrong with the translation itself, I don't see the point of continuing to discuss the validity of the translation notes as they clearly aren't "just some guy's fanfiction" as the OP has tried to claim.
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The problem is those translator's notes are just from the eng. version of FT volumes. As i already said both the original japanese volumes nor other-language volumes have those notes nor explanation on what and how magics works.
Making all that just something that eng. translator-kun wanted to add personally, since he jumped from explaining what the name "Grand Chariot" stands for, to going into folklore, to pulling his personal theory behind the infamous MCF.
 
Quantu said:
Not a FT supporter, nor am I interested in the arguments but...

If a thread like this was rejected already, and no new arguments have been brought forward, then this should be closed logically. I would even recommend FT supporters maybe try to create a discussion rule if this keeps cropping up every now and then,
Click to expand...

Actually the previous thread that you can find out down here on "similar threads" (here's the link, just to be sure). Was not rejected from the majority... actually the whole debate was still on, with several people agreeing with @Alsotime's downgrade and other being sceptical about that translator's personal info. But it got weirdly and prematurely closed.

However... Alsotime and his supporters were against the same guy who basically insta-closed this thread, @DemonGodMitchAubin which turns out not just being a thread moderator, hence with the power to close threads as much as he wants regardless... but it's also the use who Alsotime & Co. were debating against.
Now i'm not trying to say it was an unfair and biased move but... it is what it is. No offense btw.
 
Valrhavn said:
The problem is those translator's notes are just from the eng. version of FT volumes. As i already said both the original japanese volumes nor other-language volumes have those notes nor explanation on what and how magics works.
Making all that just something that eng. translator-kun wanted to add personally, since he jumped from explaining what the name "Grand Chariot" stands for, to going into folklore, to pulling his personal theory behind the infamous MCF.
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Of course there wouldn’t be a japanese text explanation in a japanese manga volume 😑

You’re also just making stuff up to suggest this dude is “Coming up with his own theories”. He never says he believes this is what is happening, he clarifies what verbatim IS happening

I swear the incredulity here is absurd… Wall can nuke a literal entire country, but the idea he can produce nuclear fusion is absurd

Anyways I have work, so I gotta go
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Of course there wouldn’t be a japanese text explanation in a japanese manga volume 😑

You’re also just making stuff up to suggest this dude is “Coming up with his own theories”. He never says he believes this is what is happening, he clarifies what verbatim IS happening

I swear the incredulity here is absurd…

Anyways I have work, so I gotta go
Click to expand...

I suggest you to read better, since i said... "nor explanation on what and how magics works." And with this i was talking about the japanese volume, since sometimes (in some series) the mangaka drops further infos about the characters of the powers used in the said volume (like in Trinity Seven)

He has no power nor any confirmation that he knows what he is stating. I would understand if this was Mashima saying it... or his editor... or Mashima's assistants... someone with a REAL connection to the series. But nope, you have... this dude. That as i said "he jumped from explaining what the name "Grand Chariot" stands for, to going into folklore, to pulling his personal theory behind the infamous MCF."

You need a quite big confirmation that what english translator-kun says is canon or approved by the mangaka, cuz as of now... this is the ONLY translator of the FT volumes who came up with that stuff.

I'd like to show you what does he say about Aqua Metria... and you'll understand he has no correlation nor basis to confirm that what he says is based on official/canonical informations.
 
Valrhavn said:
I suggest you to read better, since i said... "nor explanation on what and how magics works." And with this i was talking about the japanese volume, since sometimes (in some series) the mangaka drops further infos about the characters of the powers used in the said volume (like in Trinity Seven)

He has no power nor any confirmation that he knows what he is stating. I would understand if this was Mashima saying it... or his editor... or Mashima's assistants... someone with a REAL connection to the series. But nope, you have... this dude. That as i said "he jumped from explaining what the name "Grand Chariot" stands for, to going into folklore, to pulling his personal theory behind the infamous MCF."

You need a quite big confirmation that what english translator-kun says is canon or approved by the mangaka, cuz as of now... this is the ONLY translator of the FT volumes who came up with that stuff.

I'd like to show you what does he say about Aqua Metria... and you'll understand he has no correlation nor basis to confirm that what he says is based on official/canonical informations.
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So once again, you’re only argument is that you don’t trust the translator… I mean Wall literally says Boundary Breakthrough, a term that signfies changing the state of matter exactly like what Magnetic Confinement Fusion does… He’s also an Alchemist with extensive knowledge about physics and matter

So once again, just more incredulity backed by lack of faith rather than evidence
 
CloverDragon03 said:
And not only that, Natsu’s own casual fire can vaporize sand, making it comparable in temperature to lightning. Again, this is casual.
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Wouldn't call it casual fire, since Natsu was visibly struggling against that sand. Furthermore that was Igneel's Mark Natsu, a rather much stronger version of base Natsu.

Maybe i'm wrong but vaporizing sand is not really that impressive, since it should be around 2230° C (magma can reach 1500° C) and here we are talking about 200 million degree celsius. Jesus, it's not even remotely comparable. Even the heat of a lightning is only around 30k degree celsius.
 
Valrhavn said:
Wouldn't call it casual fire, since Natsu was visibly struggling against that sand. Furthermore that was Igneel's Mark Natsu, a rather much stronger version of base Natsu.
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That's just wrong. Igneel's Power is when Natsu actually undoes the bandages
 
Valrhavn said:
Wouldn't call it casual fire, since Natsu was visibly struggling against that sand. Furthermore that was Igneel's Mark Natsu, a rather much stronger version of base Natsu.

Maybe i'm wrong but vaporizing sand is not really that impressive, since it should be around 2230° C (magma can reach 1500° C) and here we are talking about 200 million degree celsius. Jesus, it's not even remotely comparable. Even the heat of a lightning is only around 30k degree celsius.
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Didn't Natsu use fire lightning mode to vaporize sand?
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
So once again, you’re only argument is that you don’t trust the translator… I mean Wall literally says Boundary Breakthrough, a term that signfies changing the state of matter exactly like what Magnetic Confinement Fusion does… He’s also an Alchemist with extensive knowledge about physics and matter

So once again, just more incredulity backed by lack of faith rather than evidence
Click to expand...

Obviously. It wouldn't be any different than a random FT reader telling me how this or that not-explained or unknown magic works.

As i alreayd said before several FT magic =/= real world stuff. Wall made a railgun that fires lightnings/electricity... and this is NOT how and what a REAL railgun works and fires.

The whole infodump note is simply unreliable.
 
Valrhavn said:
As i alreayd said before several FT magic =/= real world stuff.
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Just because you said it doesn't mean it's true. FT magic elements work like the real thing. Laxus's lightning, for example, functions like real lightning. Also, your Railgun example is bad because the Railgun isn't compared to a real railgun, whereas the Magic Confinement Fusion is actually compared to Magnetic Confinement Fusion

Still not seeing any good arguments here
 
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