Fairy Tail: M.G.F Downgrade

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Based on the story? Makarov was referring to natural elements, unless you seem to believe black hole is an actual black hole, why should we just assume this process is the exact same but magic when Makarov’s quote had nothing to do with anything of this nature?

I mean Bluenote's Black Hole is essentially a real black hole and stated to function like one, but planet level+ is an outlier level tier for that early of Fairy Tail

 

[Alsotime]

I mean Bluenote's Black Hole is essentially a real black hole and stated to function like one, but planet level+ is an outlier level tier for that early of Fairy Tail

 

[CloverDragon03]

Or he could just be saying that his time magic is time itself and that he was burning it away, not that it matters because as explained that is more of a component of the nullifying nature of fire dragon slayer magic, the fact him burning time was mentioned at all to try to say 200 million degrees isn’t an outlier is completely random to me.

Zeref isn't so arrogant that he'd refer to his Time Magic as time itself. He's hardly had an arrogant streak at all within the series (Acnologia hogged all the arrogance)

Based on the story? Makarov was referring to natural elements, unless you seem to believe black hole is an actual black hole, why should we just assume this process is the exact same but magic when Makarov’s quote had nothing to do with anything of this nature?

Well I'd say it actually very much qualifies as one but the tier that would result in is an outlier for that early in the story, as mentioned before

 

[Maitreya12]

Black hole feats are common across a lot of verses. Even for verses where they they’re notably much weaker than what the feat entails.

Jujutsu Kaisen for example doesn’t have any really big DC feats at all, but they recently had a black hole feat which they explicitly said would blow up the whole planet lol.

It ain’t as shocking as ya might think it is.

 

[Epsilon_R]

I'm kinda confused

Is that Confinement Fusion statement from the English translator?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm kinda confused

Is that Confinement Fusion statement from the English translator?

No, Hiro has Wall say Confinement Fusion, the translator is merely explaining what it specifically means

Wall is performing Nuclear Fusion and Magnetic Confinement Fusion, just using Magic instead of Magnetism to heat up the plasma

 

[Alsotime]

I'm kinda confused

Is that Confinement Fusion statement from the English translator?

The ability is called magic confinement fusion, the elaboration on what that entails is done by a translator, which is where the assumption that’s it’s basically the exact same process comes from

 

[Epsilon_R]

Oh so Mashima used that word, and then the English translator explained it ?

Then you need to either clarify whether the translator is making assumptions or actually knew Mashima's intentions

Or clarify whether or not Mashima knows what he's talking about.

Idk why it is still a discussion

 

[Alsotime]

Oh so Mashima used that word, and then the English translator explained it ?

Then you need to either clarify whether the translator is making assumptions or actually knew Mashima's intentions

Or clarify whether or not Mashima knows what he's talking about.

Idk why it is still a discussion

This was all the translator had to go off of

[Just the first two images, the last one is an image from a website that explains how hot the temperature is]

Their statements on it packing a whole lot of power or magic replacing magnetism in the process is just an assumption by the translator, and seeing as nothing in the series actually indicates it being that hot anyways and degrees wise it would be an extreme outlier for it to be scaled above, it should be removed, especially since Mashima never really implies it works the exact same, he just gave it similar name

 

[LordGinSama]

I think both sides make some valid points but I think there's something that everyone seems to have missed and or forgotten. The names can be similar and have a similar process but that doesn't necessarily give them both the exact properties.


Magnetic Confinement Fusion obviously has a lot of science behind it, meaning you should do deeper research into it and see how that compares to Wall's Magic Confinement. Magnetic Confinement Fusion uses Magnetic fields as a big part of its reaction of turning into super hot plasma, which from what I'm aware normal magic is not comparable to forces such as magnetic fields. (Although you could argue that it's just a name and since he's an advanced ass robot he's likely doing the actual thing since we see him making shit like Rail-guns and such. Iirc he also uses Alchemy.) for this part I'd contact @DontTalkDT since this is his specialty.




Tbh I think the bigger issue is the scaling of it, Wall doesn't use that beam to attack but rather as energy to fuel Etherion and as Pein pointed out, that temperature is very short lived and isn't maintained. Right now Natsu is scaling to that temperature without any actual justifiable reason.


The current reason is pretty ass ngl, Invel's statement doesn't mean that quite literally nobody is capable of melting his ice in his group, especially against attacks that he doesn't even know about. (I.E Wall's Magic Confinement, which he doesn't use as a heat attack but rather as energy to fuel a ******* magic nuke.) but I'm pretty sure Natsu has statements about his heat scaling that you could just use instead since I'm not a big fan of the scaling reason at the moment in time.



So 2 things basically.


1: Talk to DT and see what's valid and what's not valid.

2: Work on that scaling justification. Invel doesn't have knowledge on everything the S12 can do (I also very much doubt his ice wouldn't be melted by August, and Wall doesn't attack people with the 200 million C plasma, he converts it to fuel to power his Etherion.)

 

[Eseseso]

HUGE disagree with OP FRA.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I think both sides make some valid points but I think there's something that everyone seems to have missed and or forgotten. The names can be similar and have a similar process but that doesn't necessarily give them both the exact properties.


Magnetic Confinement Fusion obviously has a lot of science behind it, meaning you should do deeper research into it and see how that compares to Wall's Magic Confinement. Magnetic Confinement Fusion uses Magnetic fields as a big part of its reaction of turning into super hot plasma, which from what I'm aware normal magic is not comparable to forces such as magnetic fields. (Although you could argue that it's just a name and since he's an advanced ass robot he's likely doing the actual thing since we see him making shit like Rail-guns and such. Iirc he also uses Alchemy.) for this part I'd contact @DontTalkDT since this is his specialty.




Tbh I think the bigger issue is the scaling of it, Wall doesn't use that beam to attack but rather as energy to fuel Etherion and as Pein pointed out, that temperature is very short lived and isn't maintained. Right now Natsu is scaling to that temperature without any actual justifiable reason.


The current reason is pretty ass ngl, Invel's statement doesn't mean that quite literally nobody is capable of melting his ice in his group, especially against attacks that he doesn't even know about. (I.E Wall's Magic Confinement, which he doesn't use as a heat attack but rather as energy to fuel a ******* magic nuke.) but I'm pretty sure Natsu has statements about his heat scaling that you could just use instead since I'm not a big fan of the scaling reason at the moment in time.



So 2 things basically.


1: Talk to DT and see what's valid and what's not valid.

2: Work on that scaling justification. Invel doesn't have knowledge on everything the S12 can do (I also very much doubt his ice wouldn't be melted by August, and Wall doesn't attack people with the 200 million C plasma, he converts it to fuel to power his Etherion.)

Wall uses Magnetic Confinement Fusion just to activate Assault Mode, not specifically just for Etherion

 

[Damage3245]

@DemonGodMitchAubin You're right on that, but I think a fair point has been raised that the heat of Wall's attacks doesn't necessarily scale to the heat inside the Magical Confinement Reactor.

 

[LordGinSama]

Wall uses Magnetic Confinement Fusion just to activate Assault Mode, not specifically just for Etherion

Fair but my ultimate point was that Wall doesn't use that to burn people with outright heat of that temperature. Like I said before, Natsu probably does scale to it but the current reason is faulty imo.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Fair but my ultimate point was that Wall doesn't use that to burn people with outright heat of that temperature. Like I said before, Natsu probably does scale to it but the current reason is faulty imo.

I suppose that's somewhat fair, but I would still argue Invel's statement means Natsu's heat scales above Wall's heat

I mean Wall also isn't burning the concept of time

 

[Alsotime]

The concept of time doesn’t have an amount of heat needed to burn it [distortion isn’t burning] and that’s more because of fire dragon slayer magic nullifying effect which is listed on Natsu’s profile

 

[LordGinSama]

I suppose that's somewhat fair, but I would still argue Invel's statement means Natsu's heat scales above Wall's heat.

Actually I'd say his showings outdo Invel's statement tbh.

I mean Wall also isn't burning the concept of time

True that.

The concept of time doesn’t have an amount of heat needed to burn it [distortion isn’t burning] and that’s more because of fire dragon slayer magic nullifying effect which is listed on Natsu’s profile.

Things like Planck temperature can do that actually but I'm not gonna argue that for Natsu. Not sure about the science behind it nor am I gonna act like I know but theoretically its possible.


Also I wouldn't attribute the power nullification towards his DSM. That doesn't allow for power nullification, I'm pretty sure the power nullification comes from his flames of emotions or some shit. If it were based on his DSM then every slayer would be able to nullify magical attacks.

 

[Alsotime]

Also I wouldn't attribute the power nullification towards his DSM. That doesn't allow for power nullification, I'm pretty sure the power nullification comes from his flames of emotions or some shit. If it were based on his DSM then every slayer would be able to nullify magical attacks.

I was referring to fire dragon slayer magic specifically not dsm, Natsu has been shown using it to burn away and nullify magic and other things akin to it.

Can burn away and negate Magic, Abilities, and Concepts, like when he burned and negated Zero's[16] Genesis Zero[16], Sting's[17] Stigmata[17], as well as Zeref's Ankhseram Black Magic[18] and Time itself[10]. Was able to slow Zeref's Regeneration and leave him completely immobile, which Zeref claimed had never happened before[19]. Burned and negated God Seed Aldoron's Wood Dragon Slayer Magic, when Aldoron was convinced said magic could not be burned or effected by fire[1

 

[CloverDragon03]

@DemonGodMitchAubin You're right on that, but I think a fair point has been raised that the heat of Wall's attacks doesn't necessarily scale to the heat inside the Magical Confinement Reactor.

The thing is, though, that Invel is Zeref's right-hand man. His Chief of Staff. Of all people, he'd be aware of what each of the Spriggan 12 are capable of at the very least. Also, Wall very much appears to use this heat to attack, with Kagura even commenting on it

 

[Alsotime]

Also, Wall very much appears to use this heat to attack, with Kagura even commenting on it

That was more of an observation then Kagura actually feeling like the heat was burning the sky

 

[CloverDragon03]

That was more of an observation then Kagura actually feeling like the heat was burning the sky

It can be both, especially with the heat being radiated.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean if we have to make Natsu's Heat be only possibly above Wall, I suppose I can accept that

But I still think Invel's statement mixed with Natsu's narrative heat puts him above anything Wall can do heat-wise, cause Wall's body can withstand that level of heat and yet he is not as resistant to heat based attacks as Natsu, Igneel, and Ignia are

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean if we have to make Natsu's Heat be only possibly above Wall, I suppose I can accept that

I won't

I mean, the way I see it, there's a very strong case for Natsu's heat being this high and denying him fully scaling to that is just very wrong to me

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean Natsu’s heat and heat resistance gets insane hype, such as burning time and vaporizing Aldoron, it makes little sense for Wall to be above him, especially when Invel, who should know what Wall can do, makes a note of Natsu’s heat in relation to everyone in general

 

[Eseseso]

I still agree with Mitch and Clover.

Natsu's heat > Wahl's heat resistance > Wahl's 200 million degree heat

 

[Alsotime]

Bump

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's been over 48 hours and this has been pretty solidly rejected so I'd say it's high time this thread gets closed

 

[KingTempest]

maldlose