Fairy Tail - Heat Downgrade and Debunks

[Valrhavn]

People based their ideas on this picture: Wall's Magic Confinement Fusion, which is said to be the same as real life Magnetic Confinement Fusion, which produces temperatures of 200 Million Degrees Celsius.

Now... i've seen someone saying this is from a Mashima interview or a FT databook in order to justify that picture as canon/reliable material... welp, it's not from an interview nor from a databook (FT databooks do not exist btw).


So, where that stuff comes from? To make it shortly it's a personal take of the english translator (Eng FT Volumes):

Spoiler

Basically he translates the Japanese words into english and talks about the folklore behind those japanese words and names. Nothing else, nothing more.

He/She didn't translate how the Magic Confinement Fusion works because there's nothing about it to translate. Nothing official that explains how it works or else. The translator just translated the japanese words that stand for the MCF and pulled out his personal theory.

Yup, he pulled those infos out from his ass, basically. The fact that you can't find anything about MCF in other language-translated FT volumes nor in the RAW Japanese volume is also the final nail in the coffin.

Let's look at another example. Here's his translation about Aqua Metoria and Grand Chariot.

As you can see he's just translating the japanese words of those magics. Nothing about how those magic works or else... cuz there's nothing about how those magic works to begin with. It's not that Jellal is throwing real constellations against his enemies just because the name of his magic is called "Grand Chariot".

And friendly reminder he/she also committed errors while translating, as he/she admitted.

I'd also like to add that nothing would even suggest Wall produced that amount of heat, neither Natsu or anyone else in the series up to date. I mean... in terms of real science If you bring a chunk of the sun's core back to Earth, it would annihilate everything in a 150-mile radius, create a shockwave that would circle the globe, and trigger a global ice age that would last for hundreds or thousands of years. Is something like this happened in the series so far? And the sun core's heat is 27 million degree as a whole... and here we are talking about 200 million degree pulled out by Natsu and others during their fights, as attacks.

Last but not least... to further cement that Wall's magic weapons are NOT like real weapons... this is how a railgun works in Fairy Tail. It shoots electricity. This cannot be more wrong.

Shortly:​

• Magic Confinement Fusion heat infodump = the equivalent of a fan-theory made by an english translator. Hence not canon nor official nor Mashima related.
  
  
• There's nothing that would even remotely suggest Wall's magic is 200mln degree, especially in terms of real science and natural events.

Characters that should be downgraded:​

• Natsu​

• Wall Eehto​

• Invel​

• Whoever scales from the false 200mln degree heat​

================================================================================================

Agree ---> @Greatsage13th , @CiscoTheSoto , @PrinceofPein , @TheRustyOne

Disagree ---> @DemonGodMitchAubin , @CloverDragon03

Something else (explanation) ---> @ByAsura

 

[CloverDragon03]

This kind of thread has literally already been made with the same evidence and was rejected

 

[Damage3245]

In all honesty, I think this is fair enough - though I know it has been discussed before on here.

I don't think there's anything conclusive that proves that that Wall uses that specific amount of temperature in any of his attacks.

 

[Greatsage13th]

In all honesty, I think this is fair enough - though I know it has been discussed before on here.

I don't think there's anything conclusive that proves that that Wall uses that specific amount of temperature in any of his attacks.

Agreed

 

[Valrhavn]

This kind of thread has literally already been made with the same evidence and was rejected

This would be extremely strange. The single picture presented to upscale Natsu & co. to 200mln degree is from someone who has no correlation nor power over the Fairy Tail series whatsoever. It would be no different from a random person writing up something without any basis to support his claims... and yet people accept what he writes regardless.

Sounds strange to say the least, especially when the series has nothing that would even suggest it has reached such insane heat temperatures.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Is there really no other statement that even suggests his heat being 200M C? What exactly is his best heat feat?

 

[CloverDragon03]

The claim of “it’s a fan interpretation” was already addressed. These translations are official. The translator is clarifying what is meant in the series itself. And you can even see this in this particular example, as they even explain how magic plays a role in this process. It says the magic is holding the plasma, and even explains that Wall is charging a lot of power.

And really, I really am not interested in revisiting an already rejected thread

 

[Valrhavn]

The claim of “it’s a fan interpretation” was already addressed. These translations are official. The translator is clarifying what is meant in the series itself. And you can even see this in this particular example, as they even explain how magic plays a role in this process. It says the magic is holding the plasma, and even explains that Wall is charging a lot of power.

And really, I really am not interested in revisiting an already rejected thread

The translator also states that what he translates might be wrong 'cause japanese if a quite hard language.

The translator has no rights nor power over the Fairy Tail series, especially since this is JUST from the english translator. The raws and the other language-volumes have not this clarification, not even these translations.

Furthermore the translator is basing what he writes from confinement fusion of our REAL WORLD; and not because he knows what he's talking about or because Mashima himself told him how MCF works. Basically he's writing what comes up to his mind. Nothing else.

As i said in the op the dude just translates the names of japanese words and puts some folklore and stuff on it.

 

[Valrhavn]

Is there really no other statement that even suggests his heat being 200M C?

Absolutely nothing. Same can be said for the rest of the characters in the series so far.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

There’s no new info here, this was already rejected previously, so we can just close this here and now

 

[CloverDragon03]

The translator also states that what he translates might be wrong 'cause japanese if a quite hard language.

Was that said for this statement in particular? No, so this doesn’t hold up

The translator has no rights nor power over the Fairy Tail series, especially since this is JUST from the english translator. The raws and the other language-volumes have not this clarification.

This is… pretty irrelevant ngl. This is not a disqualifying factor by any stretch. And keep in mind, the translations need to be accurate to FT’s source material, so there is most certainly truth to this. There’s also zero statements that go against this so…

Furthermore the translator is basing what he writes from confinement fusion of our REAL WORLD; and not because he knows what he's talking about or because Mashima himself told him how MCF works. Basically he's writing what comes up to his mind. Nothing else.

Asserting this as true with no evidence, especially when the translations have to be accurate to the source material. Next?

There’s no new info here, this was already rejected previously, so we can just close this here and now

Please put this out of its misery

 

[PhoenixFirestorm]

Japanese is a hard language because it is not like English where it says word by word, it's about the meaning. I know that because I learnt the basics of how it works. Of course the translator took time to try and get the whole meaning about this.

Plus, there are feats with Natsu burning up and vaporising water within seconds or an instant. Which requires insane amounts of heat to do that. Plus the calcs on here with the heat have been really consistent with the powerscaling surprisingly.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Natsu’s casual heat also vaporized sand…

 

[Kachon123]

Can someone close this? It's already been rejected. Just make a discussion rule.

 

[Valrhavn]

There’s no new info here, this was already rejected previously, so we can just close this here and now

Is there something that would at least provide a single hint that what this single dude said is canon to the series besides "it sounds cool so **** that, no downgrade"?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can someone close this? It's already been rejected. Just make a discussion rule.

Yeah we really need one…

 

[CloverDragon03]

Is there something that would at least provide a single hint that what this single dude said is canon to the series besides "it sounds cool so **** that, no downgrade"?

There’s literally no statements going against this. What you’ve stated is just a simple case of fiction being fiction, otherwise we’d have Natsu nuking the continent with every punch, SSJ2 Kid Gohan nuking the solar system with a single punch, etc.

 

[Valrhavn]

Was that said for this statement in particular? No, so this doesn’t hold up

This is… pretty irrelevant ngl. This is not a disqualifying factor by any stretch. And keep in mind, the translations need to be accurate to FT’s source material, so there is most certainly truth to this. There’s also zero statements that go against this so…

Asserting this as true with no evidence, especially when the translations have to be accurate to the source material. Next?

Please put this out of its misery

• It writes it at the top before translating shit to inform us that what hes going to say might the wrong. Pretty simple to understand.
  
  
• There's nothing in the series that talks, shows nor hints about Magic Confinement Fusion tho, before Wall saying it.
  
  
• So are we going to ignore that Wall's railgun is completely different from how a REAL railgun operates and what it fires?
  
  
• I'd like to see a decent calc that would put BASE Natsu at 200mln degree, ******** on real science and logic aswell.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Plus, there are feats with Natsu burning up and vaporising water within seconds or an instant. Which requires insane amounts of heat to do that.

Just to clarify, you only get the thermal energy out of that but not the actual temperature of the fire that caused the temperature change.

Plus the calcs on here with the heat have been really consistent with the powerscaling surprisingly.

Show it.

 

[Valrhavn]

So basically the reason why this whole 200mln should stay is because... it sounds ok... ?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I’ll close this now, since nothing new has been presented, it’s the same exact argument as before that was rejected

 

[Damage3245]

I have unlocked the thread. As far as I'm aware there has to be a discussion rule added in order for the thread to be closed outright.

 

[PhoenixFirestorm]

I believe I heard the thread was closed because the debunk above was the exact same reason that has been rejected and is not going further with it.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I have unlocked the thread. As far as I'm aware there has to be a discussion rule added in order for the thread to be closed outright.

But it’s literally the same argument that was rejected in the last thread… What is the point of keeping this open?

Well I guess I’ll sleep on it

 

[Valrhavn]

There’s literally no statements going against this. What you’ve stated is just a simple case of fiction being fiction, otherwise we’d have Natsu nuking the continent with every punch, SSJ2 Kid Gohan nuking the solar system with a single punch, etc.

Nor there's a statement that supports this. Furthermore Translator-kun has nothing to say he's reliable, especially since he's the only translator translating those stuff.
It's not a case of words-of-god neither, since this comes from a person that has no correlation to Mashima nor the series. This is NOT a databook.

Edit: if that guy translated what the original japanese volume says then you'd have an argument ofc... but the translator notes are NOT from the original volume. It's the translator giving his PERSONAL OPINION.

Keeping the 200mln hungabunga just because dude made up stuff from his ass while translating makes no sense. It's like saying Jellal's Grand Chariot is Star level 'cause translator-kun said it's a constellation...

I have unlocked the thread. As far as I'm aware there has to be a discussion rule added in order for the thread to be closed outright.

Thanks!
I'd like to merge this thread with the previous one made by @Alsotime. It had more people debating it. Also it weirdly got closed even if the debate was still going and several users were agreeing with @Alsotime. Weird indeed.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Edit: if that guy translated what the original japanese volume says then you'd have an argument ofc... but the translator notes are NOT from the original volume. It's the translator giving his PERSONAL OPINION.

Keeping the 200mln hungabunga just because dude made up stuff from his ass while translating makes no sense. It's like saying Jellal's Grand Chariot is Star level 'cause translator-kun said it's a constellation...

That's a fair point

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm sorry whats the arguments for keeping this? A translator made up a number that has no official basis in the series, and we are keeping it for something? Or am I confused?

If that's the case translator notes have the same authority as the author?

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'm sorry whats the arguments for keeping this? A translator made up a number that has no official basis in the series, and we are keeping it for something? Or am I confused?

If that's the case translator notes have the same authority as the author?

Agreed

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I'm in agreement with Valrhavn's opinion. Based on the evidence above, it sounds like the translator just gave his opinion, and this one shaky piece of evidence shouldn't really be used to justify Natsu's flames being so unbelievably hot if there's nohing else to back it up.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

People are under this weird assumption that the translator made up Magic Confinement Fusion… Even tho it’s verbatim stated in the Manga to be this. The argument that this has no weight because it’s a “translated explanation” is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard

The only argument here is once again “I don’t believe we should treat it as the same thing because I don’t trust the translator”

So yeah… Baseless mistrust because reasons I guess. That argument was already rejected in the last thread about this, so I have zero idea why we’re continuing to discuss it.

 

[Valrhavn]

I'm sorry whats the arguments for keeping this? A translator made up a number that has no official basis in the series, and we are keeping it for something? Or am I confused?

If that's the case translator notes have the same authority as the author?

The funny thing is the number is not even from the translator. Someone literally copied it from the web and pasted it under the translator's note.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The funny thing is the number is not even from the translator. Someone literally copied it from the web and pasted it under the translator's note.

Obviously the number is not from the translator, that was never the reason the number was applied

 

[Valrhavn]

People are under this weird assumption that the translator made up Magic Confinement Fusion… Even tho it’s verbatim stated in the Manga to be this. The argument that this has no weight because it’s a “translated explanation” is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard

The only argument here is once again “I don’t believe we should treat it as the same thing because I don’t trust the translator”

So yeah… Baseless mistrust because reasons I guess. That argument was already rejected in the last thread about this, so I have zero idea why we’re continuing to discuss it.

In the manga it is just a title, like Galaxy Impact for Garp and Planetary Rasengan for KCM Naruto etc.

Everything else comes from translator-kun's mind.

Let alone FT has many examples of magic being =/= real world weapons/natural stuff and so on:

Example:

• Wall's railgun fires lightnings... a real world railgun does NOT fire lightnings, it shoots a bullet.
  
  
• Laxus pulled a lightning from the sky during a sunny day 1 chapter before that... no storm clouds...

And how could you even upscale Natsu etc. basing on Neinhart's statement that has not even talked about Wall nor there is something that says the two fight against each other or know their full abilities, especially when Wall was using a robot-replacement with the other Spriggans.

 

[Damage3245]

The Magical Confinement Fusion isn't really what I have an issue with; it's the assumption that his attacks are that hot and that other characters scale to that heat value which I have an issue wit.h

 

[speedster352]

I agree with the op

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Magical Confinement Fusion isn't really what I have an issue with; it's the assumption that his attacks are that hot and that other characters scale to that heat value which I have an issue wit.h

If you have no issue with the process itself, you by default shouldn’t have an issue with the heat value. Magnetic Confinement Fusion is 200 million degrees Celsius. That is objective fact

And why was this thread reopened? There’s no discussion to be had when the OP is regurgitating the same rejected arguments

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm also in agreement with the OP as of right now.

If those in opposition have proof that this temperature is meant to be canon, it'd be great if they can post this evidence.

Also can anyone explain why Magic Confinement Fusion is treated as being no different from Magnetic Confinement Fusion? Considering it's Magic and not Magnetic, I assume that it's perfectly reasonable for me to believe that it doesn't have to work exactly the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion.

As someone who is unfamiliar with Fairy Tail, I believe a proper explanation is in order at this point.

That way any third parties can give their own opinions as well. I'll be honest and say that it being called something similar to Magnetic Confinement Fusion isn't really good enough evidence in my opinion.

 

[Zackra1799]

This idea that the translator is unreliable is entirely baseless considering that all of fairy tail's translations are done in-house by Kodansha who has both a copyright and trademark on the series, and considering the amount of material outside of the original manga that is considered canon, I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that this singular translator is solely responsible for published volume translation notes as there were likely several people that had to review the work done in order to get an incredibly popular manga translation into publication. So, unless there's something wrong with the translation itself, I don't see the point of continuing to discuss the validity of the translation notes as they clearly aren't "just some guy's fanfiction" as the OP has tried to claim.

The Magical Confinement Fusion isn't really what I have an issue with; it's the assumption that his attacks are that hot and that other characters scale to that heat value which I have an issue wit.h

As far as why people scale to this, Invels statement regarding Natsu's heat being basically the only person capable of melting his ice, and there are also several statements from Zeref where he is surprised and amazed at Natsu's level of heat, something that would put him above the likes of Wall, who is capable of producing heat hot enough to burn the sky, which isn't even possible even under the extreme temperatures of nuclear warheads.

 

[Damage3245]

As far as why people scale to this, Invels statement regarding Natsu's heat being basically the only person capable of melting his ice, and there are also several statements from Zeref where he is surprised and amazed at Natsu's level of heat, something that would put him above the likes of Wall, who is capable of producing heat hot enough to burn the sky, which isn't even possible even under the extreme temperatures of nuclear warheads.

Yes, but we don't see that Wall is capable of weaponizing this assumed 200 million degree heat.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yes, but we don't see that Wall is capable of weaponizing this assumed 200 million degree heat.

We literally do… In the same scan where he fires a blast that’s stated to be scorching the sky