Fairy Tail: M.G.F Downgrade

[Nierre]

Arc FRA

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm saying that while it can have a similar name, it very clearly isn't exactly the same, and therefore shouldn't get scaled based off of something it isn't.

You haven't provided anything that says it's explicitly different... Meanwhile the professional translator has explicitly clarified what is happening, which is fundamentally the same as regular Magnetic Confinement Fusion

Its magic confinement fusion, whatever that entails for it, is something the author should've explained, either during his afterword that he uses, or in the manga scene it appeared in

Bruh, you don't have an argument, your argument is just "I don't believe these two are the same things because I don't"

The translator's job is to translate what is being said in the series that is true, but when said translator makes inferences that were never actually stated or shown in series, we don't take their opinion as fact.

It is his job to point out the origin and meaning behind what the series is saying, so his word does have value yes

If he was wrong about Magnetic Confinement Fusion, he would have made a new comment about it in the next volume saying he was wrong like he was with Bloodman being called "Badman"

 

[Alsotime]

"Very clearly" Based on what?

The fact that magic is being used in this process at all?

Again, you're creating an arbitrary requirement that doesn't need to be fulfilled in order for this to be taken as a fact

No I'm not, its a very clearly pointed out principle on the forum that something be named after something else doesn't mean they have the exact same mechanics, and that said namesake would need its own statements to prove its on that level

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The fact that magic is being used in this process at all?

No I'm not, its a very clearly pointed out principle on the forum that something be named after something else doesn't mean they have the exact same mechanics, and that said namesake would need its own statements to prove its on that level

Namesake isn't enough if it's directly contradicted... Not if it's flat out said to be the same shit by the translator...

 

[CloverDragon03]

The fact that magic is being used in this process at all?

It's the same process, but with magic involved. It's even said that magic is holding the plasma... So clearly it's the same process, just now including magic.

So yeah, not at all "very clearly different"

No I'm not, its a very clearly pointed out principle on the forum that something be named after something else doesn't mean they have the exact same mechanics, and that said namesake would need its own statements to prove its on that level

But it provably does have the same mechanics. You're simply ignoring this fact

 

[Alsotime]

It's even said that magic is holding the plasma... So clearly it's the same process, just now including magic.

Yeah by the translator, who just assumed that, nothing in the series actually says that

But it provably does have the same mechanics. You're simply ignoring this fact

Or it doesn't? It possibly being the same doesn't mean it is

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah, by the translator, who just assumed that

You're assuming it's simply an assumption being made rather than an actual statement.

Prove that it's just an assumption

 

[Alsotime]

You're assuming it's simply an assumption being made rather than an actual statement.

Prove that it's just an assumption

The fact that it being held together by magic is never stated in the actual manga makes it an assumption, that's the proof

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Translator connects them explicitly

The naming is fundamentally the same

There's nothing that directly contradicts them being the same

So Alsotime's entire argument is just "I have doubts they are the same cause I do"

 

[CloverDragon03]

The fact that it being held together by magic is never stated in the actual manga makes it an assumption, that's the proof

That's not proof. Otherwise all explicit statements outside the manga are just "assumptions"

 

[Alsotime]

Translator connects them explicitly

which has no barrings on actual canon

The naming is fundamentally the same

It being a reference doesn't make it exactly the same

There's nothing that directly contradicts them being the same

the fact that it does nothing to imply its 200 million degress celcius besides a translator explaining where the name came from and us taking that at face value.

That's not proof. Otherwise all explicit statements outside the manga are just "assumptions"

Yes it is, he saw the word magic instead of magnetic and assumed that was what is taking place.
Also thats not a good example, all explict statements made by people who have no effect on actual canon are assumptions or headcanon because they aren't the author

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yes it is, he saw the word magic instead of magnetic and assumed that was what is taking place.
Also thats not a good example, all explict statements made by people who have no effect on actual canon are assumptions or headcanon because they aren't the author

You're assuming what he did. Prove that this was exactly what he did.

Occam's Razor would say the opposite, that this is just a flat-out viable statement

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

At this point, we're just circling points, I'll call staff to get their thoughts and opinions in here

 

[Alsotime]

You're assuming what he did. Prove that this was exactly what he did.

The proof is right there in the scans, I don't know what else to tell you, its very clear he made an assumption because of the spells name, because thats the only way he could have came to that conclusion in the first place.

At this point, we're just circling points, I call staff to get their thoughts and opinions in here

Okay, that seems like the best decision at this point

 

[CloverDragon03]

The proof is right there in the scans, I don't know what else to tell you, its very clear he made an assumption because of the spells name, because thats the only way he could have came to that conclusion in the first place.

If that's your "proof," it is incredibly insufficient. Nothing in there speaks to an assumption. He himself doesn't even say "I assume Wall did this" or anything of the sort. It's stated as a fact, not an assumption, so it should be taken as a fact.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If that's your "proof," it is incredibly insufficient. Nothing in there speaks to an assumption. He himself doesn't even say "I assume Wall did this" or anything of the sort. It's stated as a fact, not an assumption, so it should be taken as a fact.

Exactly this^

The translator is not saying it is an assumption, he is merely saying this is what it is. He is saying exactly what Wall is doing.

 

[Alsotime]

The Translator doesn't have to directly say its an assumption for it to be an assumption.

The Translator says that's what Wall is doing, but he is only saying that based off the spell being named magic confinement fusion, it doesn't matter if he is stating it like it is a fact because he can't make it a fact, only someone in series making such a claim or the author making such a claim can, the translator can only make the assumption that he's using magic instead of magnetism because magic replaced magnetism in MCF, they have no actual hold on the series and therefore their assumption of what happened shouldn't be used to justify the temperatures in the series.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The Translator doesn't have to directly say its an assumption for it to be an assumption.

The Translator says that's what Wall is doing, but he is only saying that based off the spell being named magic confinement fusion, it doesn't matter if he is stating it like it is a fact because he can't make it a fact, only someone in series making such a claim or the author making such a claim can, the translator can only make the assumption that he's using magic instead of magnetism because magic replaced magnetism in MCF, they have no actual hold on the series and therefore their assumption of what happened shouldn't be used to justify the temperatures in the series.

So once again, your only argument is that you doubt the translator has any valid information and therefore we should completely disregard the entire comparison and just assume Magic Confinement Fusion is completely different than Magnetic Confinement Fusion…

All I see is argument from incredulity

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Translator doesn't have to directly say its an assumption for it to be an assumption.

Then how do you know it's an assumption? Just saying "oh well I can tell from the scans" is a clear indicator to me that you don't actually have proof

The Translator says that's what Wall is doing, but he is only saying that based off the spell being named magic confinement fusion, it doesn't matter if he is stating it like it is a fact because he can't make it a fact, only someone in series making such a claim or the author making such a claim can, the translator can only make the assumption that he's using magic instead of magnetism because magic replaced magnetism in MCF, they have no actual hold on the series and therefore their assumption of what happened shouldn't be used to justify the temperatures in the series.

I've been saying this a lot lately... Based on what?

They provide the official translations. It's their job to be as accurate as possible. If they're saying this, it's to be taken as an accurate, factual statement. Thus, nothing will change on the profiles

 

[Maitreya12]

The fact that magic is being used in this process at all?

This is a really bad argument to try and prove there’s some fundamental distinction between these two things to the point where they can’t be compared. Just because something is made out of magic doesn’t mean it can’t share the same principles as the thing it’s emulating.

I’ll use a RWBY example since I know that’s something OP is familiar with.

In RWBY there are characters that can use magic and with that magic they’re capable of summoning up thunderstorms and shooting lighting down from them. Now is the fact that these clouds are conjures up with magic mean they’re not actually really clouds and the lightning isn’t actually real lightning either? No of course not, which is why it isn’t done like that on the wiki here.

what you’re arguing is that just because something is made using magic, it cannot have the same principles the real life thing it’s emulating, which is patently not how we do things on the wiki here.

 

[Alsotime]

I’ll use a RWBY example since I know that’s something OP is familiar with.

In RWBY there are characters that can use magic and with that magic they’re capable of summoning up thunderstorms and shooting lighting down from them. Now is the fact that these clouds are conjures up with magic mean they’re not actually really clouds and the lightning isn’t actually real lightning either? No of course not, which is why it isn’t done like that on the wiki here.

That’s not really fully the point though.

the point of weather or not it’s magic doesn’t matter, the comparison to its namesake is just to show its reference to that, nothing in the series implies it’s 200 million degrees in heat, if anything that’s an absolute outlier at best, and that’s only if you take what a translator said at face value because nothing in the series actually makes the comparison between the two.

Also yes claiming that a thunder cloud made via magic isn’t a thunder cloud is a bad take, but claiming a spell called lightning blast isn’t actual lightning when it shows no indication of being lightning besides it’s visual effects and name wouldn’t be, just like how claiming a spell called black hole isn’t an actual black hole despite it sucking its targets in isn’t a weird take at all.

They provide the official translations. It's their job to be as accurate as possible. If they're saying this, it's to be taken as an accurate, factual statement. Thus, nothing will change on the profiles

So ignore translations done by them when it’s convenient, but take everything they say as wog when it’s convenient as well.

I've been saying this a lot lately... Based on what?

Okay, how about you stop saying based on what and prove your point instead, what other evidence would they have to go off of besides the name? Since that’s literally the only thing shown for an inference to be made in the first place.

Until otherwise, magic confinement fusion is just a play on words and the translator does nothing but point that out, nothing else in the series goes out of its way to say anything that implies it’s temperature being on the level an actual magnetic confinement fusion would produce, nothing at all

what you’re arguing is that just because something is made using magic, it cannot have the same principles the real life thing it’s emulating, which is patently not how we do things on the wiki here.

What im arguing is that Magic Confinement Fusion shows absolutely nothing that implies it’s heat or process is the exact same as the real thing, and the only piece of evidence that even links the two is a translators note, a literal translator’s note that has nothing to do with the actual series or the abilities name, all they did was just elaborate on the abilities name, which is something they do all the time.

Them pointing out that the Magic Confinement Field is obviously a play on Magnetic Confinement Field is where their authority ends, anything else about it being a whole lot of power or magic replacing Magnetism in the process is nothing but their personal head canon because Wall’s one sentence where he literally just stated the abilities name, isn’t enough for that conclusion to be drawn

 

[CloverDragon03]

So ignore translations done by them when it’s convenient, but take everything they say as wog when it’s convenient as well.

Not an argument, and irrelevant to Fairy Tail since we don’t ignore their translations to begin with

Okay, how about you stop saying based on what and prove your point instead, what other evidence would they have to go off of besides the name? Since that’s literally the only thing shown for an inference to be made in the first place.

Until otherwise, magic confinement fusion is just a play on words and the translator does nothing but point that out, nothing else in the series goes out of its way to say anything that implies it’s temperature being on the level an actual magnetic confinement fusion would produce, nothing at all

It’s stated as a fact, with not even a remote indication that this is an assumption. Magic is stated to even hold the plasma, indicating it’s the same process but with Magic involved. And then it’s connected directly to what Wall is doing. In addition, there is nothing that contradicts what’s being said here.

Your entire argument is a simple personal belief that it can’t actually be the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion

 

[Alsotime]

Magic is stated to even hold the plasma, indicating it’s the same process but with Magic involved.

It’s stated by the translator, as a part of his assumption, show me the manga scene or Mashima quote that says this.

Your entire argument is a simple personal belief that it can’t actually be the same as Magnetic Confinement Fusion

My argument is that we don’t take ability names at face value, which no we don’t, or every light blast would be light speed, every death beam would be instant death, and every black hole would be a black hole.

Not an argument, and irrelevant to Fairy Tail since we don’t ignore their translations to begin with

It’s just pointing out a truth, if anytime you take the raw over the official translation and claim the official translation is wrong and that the translators are incorrect to upgrade a character, but then turn around and use those translators headcanons to upgrade a character’s power, there’s a double standard

But regardless, as mentioned above this discussion is going in circles, so I’ll just let others vote on what they agree with

 

[KingTempest]

Diss agree

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That’s not really fully the point though.

the point of weather or not it’s magic doesn’t matter, the comparison to its namesake is just to show its reference to that, nothing in the series implies it’s 200 million degrees in heat, if anything that’s an absolute outlier at best, and that’s only if you take what a translator said at face value because nothing in the series actually makes the comparison between the two.

Outlier my ass when you have people burning the concept of time

Also yes claiming that a thunder cloud made via magic isn’t a thunder cloud is a bad take, but claiming a spell called lightning blast isn’t actual lightning when it shows no indication of being lightning besides it’s visual effects and name wouldn’t be, just like how claiming a spell called black hole isn’t an actual black hole despite it sucking its targets in isn’t a weird take at all.

See this just isn't true, we do take into consideration those things. If something is called lightning magic, we consider it lightning unless there is a direct contradiction to that. This is especially true in Fairy Tail as it's explicitly stated many times that Magic has a direct connection to nature and is basically completely intertwined with reality. Fire Magic involves real fire. Lightning Magic involves real lightning. And so on and so forth, so Magic Confinement Fusion would be the exact same. Magnetic Confinement Fusion just with Magic involved.

So ignore translations done by them when it’s convenient, but take everything they say as wog when it’s convenient as well.

See now you're just making shit up. We don't ignore translations. We sometimes have to nail down on the specific wording of what they're saying, but we never outright ignore or discard them. When Haku's statement first came out, it said he was as fast as light, when officials came out, it said nearly as fast as light, but were essentially the same with minor differences in phrasing, so we needed to double check to nail down how Haku's speed does relate to light speed. But 99 times out of 100, the translators nail the translations and are well at their job, ESPECIALLY when it concerns direct translation notes that specifcially exist to clarify and explain the meaning behind each of the words. Magic Confinement Fusion being directly stated to be like Magnetic Confinement Fusion is proof that that's what is being said and was the intended purpose

Okay, how about you stop saying based on what and prove your point instead, what other evidence would they have to go off of besides the name? Since that’s literally the only thing shown for an inference to be made in the first place.

The name directly references a specific thing... Being Magnetic Confinement Fusion

Until otherwise, magic confinement fusion is just a play on words and the translator does nothing but point that out, nothing else in the series goes out of its way to say anything that implies it’s temperature being on the level an actual magnetic confinement fusion would produce, nothing at all

I mean, right after this, Wall fires a ball of fire that is stated to burn the sky, so it's clearly a very hot attack... Once again, all you're doing is baselessly disagreeing cause you don't see how it's the same despite literally being called the same

What im arguing is that Magic Confinement Fusion shows absolutely nothing that implies it’s heat or process is the exact same as the real thing, and the only piece of evidence that even links the two is a translators note, a literal translator’s note that has nothing to do with the actual series or the abilities name, all they did was just elaborate on the abilities name, which is something they do all the time.

What you haven't done at all is dispprove how it's not like Magnetic Confinement Fusion... A process specifically designed to generate large amounts of energy. So yes, Wall does display traits of Magnetic Confinement Fusion. It's a form of nuclear fusion that generates massive amounts of heat and energy, which Wall proceeds to do... Gain a bunch of energy and fire a super heated attack

Them pointing out that the Magic Confinement Field is obviously a play on Magnetic Confinement Field is where their authority ends, anything else about it being a whole lot of power or magic replacing Magnetism in the process is nothing but their personal head canon because Wall’s one sentence where he literally just stated the abilities name, isn’t enough for that conclusion to be drawn

Once again, they're not giving their opinions, they are matter of factly saying that Wall is doing the same thing as Magnetic Confinement Fusion, just using Magic instead of Magnitism to super heat the plasma. They say that the heating and plasma part still happen, which is where the 200 Million Degree's comes from. It's the same thing, the whole point is Wall is doing Nuclear Fusion. You not agreeing with that cause it was a translator note that conveyed the message is asinine...

Even then, the whole point is that a fusion reaction is happening, which at bare minimum to even produce viable energy and power, needs to be at least 100 Million Degrees Celsius in temperature, so like yeah, even without Magnetic Confinement Fusion being specified, a fusion reaction requires temperatures at this level

 

[Alsotime]

Outlier my ass when you have people burning the concept of time

What? Natsu’s fire having the ability to nullify and burn away magic, including time magic, doesn’t make it 200 million degrees Celsius, the two don’t even have anything to do with one another at all, so yes it’s an outlier.

I mean, right after this, Wall fires a ball of fire that is stated to burn the sky, so it's clearly a very hot attack... Once again, all you're doing is baselessly disagreeing cause you don't see how it's the same despite literally being called the same

No, right after this a ball is shot into the sky, and people question if the sky is burning because they see it, it’s heat isn’t shown to be anything to that would indicate anything powerful, matter of fact there are far lower temperatures of heat that are treated as being hot.

See now you're just making shit up. We don't ignore translations. We sometimes have to nail down on the specific wording of what they're saying, but we never outright ignore or discard them. When Haku's statement first came out, it said he was as fast as light, when officials came out, it said nearly as fast as light, but were essentially the same with minor differences in phrasing, so we needed to double check to nail down how Haku's speed does relate to light speed. But 99 times out of 100, the translators nail the translations and are well at their job,

Yet just a couple months back you were making it seem as though they are frequently wrong, so which is it? They are usually right and we should take their headcanons at face value, or they are frequent wrong and since they aren’t the series creator their assumptions on how an ability works is disregarded?

Raws say comparable to light speed

So once again the Officials fail at proper translations

Nothing about this indicates the translators are 99 percent right, if anything with Haku and the Dragon God element mistake, we have a two for two example of them being wrong.

Once again, they're not giving their opinions, they are matter of factly saying that Wall is doing the same thing as Magnetic Confinement Fusion, just using Magic instead of Magnitism to super heat the plasma.

Except this is never actually stated anywhere in the manga at all

Even then, the whole point is that a fusion reaction is happening, which at bare minimum to even produce viable energy and power, needs to be at least 100 Million Degrees Celsius in temperature, so like yeah, even without Magnetic Confinement Fusion being specified, a fusion reaction requires temperatures at this level

Which would be an outlier heat for the verse, and if not would still constitute a temperature downgrade, seeing as the difference would be 100 million degrees

 

[CloverDragon03]

What? Natsu’s fire having the ability to nullify and burn away magic, including time magic, doesn’t make it 200 million degrees Celsius, the two don’t even have anything to do with one another at all, so yes it’s an outlier.

He was burning time itself. Zeref himself said as much, and he's like the smartest guy in the verse

 

[Alsotime]

He was burning time itself. Zeref himself said as much, and he's like the smartest guy in the verse

Time in that context was Zeref’s time magic though, and even if it was normal time, that is because of his Magic’s power null, that literally has absolutely nothing to do with its temperature so I don’t know why that was brought up at all

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Natsu is stated to burn time itself, not time magic... But I guess it makes sense you're one of those scalers after your responses so far... Also nothing indicates levels of that heat are an outlier when Natsu's fire consistently burns shit real fire outright can't effect... Like concepts, shadows, magic, space-time, nothingness, etc.

It has everything to do with temperature, it's the heat that burns time dude...

 

[Alsotime]

Natsu is stated to burn time itself, not time magic... But I guess it makes sense you're one of those scalers after your responses so far... Also nothing indicates levels of that heat are an outlier when Natsu's fire consistently burns shit real fire outright can't effect... Like concepts, shadows, magic, space-time, nothingness, etc.

It has everything to do with temperature, it's the heat that burns time dude...

All of which comes from fire dragon slayer magic’s power nullification, so once again no it doesn’t have anything to do with its actual temperature, unless you have a measure for how hot something would even need to be to burn time, that’s extremely unquantifiable anyway, when we compare how Hot Natsu’s heat is quantifiably, it’s far far far lower than 200 million degrees Celsius

Also what do you mean one of those scalers? He was fighting someone who was stated to have the strongest time magic in the series, and then said person said he was burning time as he was burning away at him and his reserves of power, that very clearly is him burning Time Magic

 

[CloverDragon03]

All of which comes from fire dragon slayer magic’s power nullification, so once again no it doesn’t have anything to do with its actual temperature, unless you have a measure for how hot something would even need to be to burn time, that’s extremely unquantifiable anyway, when we compare how Hot Natsu’s heat is quantifiably, it’s far far far lower than 200 million degrees Celsius

Also what do you mean one of those scalers? He was fighting someone who was stated to have the strongest time magic in the series, and then said person said he was burning time as he was burning away at him and his reserves of power, that very clearly is him burning Time Magic

There is actually a temperature at which space-time begins to distort so...

Also, do you really think the most intelligent person in the series would somehow be wrong or exaggerate at a time like this the fact that it's time itself that's burning up, not just Time Magic?

 

[Ped2018]

But I guess it makes sense you're one of those scalers after your responses so far...

You said this like it was a slur or something lmaooo

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

There is actually a temperature at which space-time begins to distort so...

Planck Temperature goes brrrrrrrr

Also it's not Time Magic, it's explicitly Time itself that is being burned according to Zeref... Which is what Zeref manipulates... Time itself

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

You said this like it was a slur or something lmaooo

I've met many kinds of FT scalers over the years, the ones who love to downplay make a point of saying Natsu only burned "Time Magic" not time itself like what is directly stated

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also it's not Time Magic, it's explicitly Time itself that is being burned according to Zeref... Which is what Zeref manipulates... Time itself

Well Zeref actually mentions both... He says "it's burning my magic" and then says "time itself is burning up"

 

[Maitreya12]

You said this like it was a slur or something lmaooo

Cause that’s what it was meant to be.

Anyways, yeah I think Mitch said it best here:

If something is called lightning magic, we consider it lightning unless there is a direct contradiction to that. This is especially true in Fairy Tail as it's explicitly stated many times that Magic has a direct connection to nature and is basically completely intertwined with reality. Fire Magic involves real fire. Lightning Magic involves real lightning. And so on and so forth, so Magic Confinement Fusion would be the exact same. Magnetic Confinement Fusion just with Magic involved.

Considering it being the literal case here on the wiki that the actual name sake for the magic is being directly derived off the real life thing + we have a translators note specifically clarifying what said thing entails in actual approximations for temperatures, indicates to me that the magic confinement fusion should be treated exactly how we treat all the other magic systems in Fairy Tail and say that it’s principles in the verse mimic it’s real life counterpart, with the translator note statement supporting that fact.

 

[Alsotime]

Well Zeref actually mentions both... He says "it's burning my magic" and then says "time itself is burning up"

So he’s referring to his magic as time itself, that’s very clear cut.

There is actually a temperature at which space-time begins to distort so...

Also, do you really think the most intelligent person in the series would somehow be wrong or exaggerate at a time like this the fact that it's time itself that's burning up, not just Time Magic?

Where space time begins to distort, not where time begins to be erased, and yes, yes I do, my point isn’t even that Natsu’s magic cant effect concepts in certain situations it , but that in this specific scenario he only burned away at time magic

Fire Magic involves real fire. Lightning Magic involves real lightning. And so on and so forth, so Magic Confinement Fusion would be the exact same. Magnetic Confinement Fusion just with Magic involved.

But that only applies to natural phenomena in the world, like fire, and lightning, Magnetic Confinement Fusion isn’t really the same as either of those examples at all.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So he’s referring to his magic as time itself, that’s very clear cut.

No, they're separate entities. Time Magic manipulates time itself, so both the magic and the thing it manipulates are being burned.

Where space time begins to distort, not where time begins to be erased, and yes, yes I do, my point isn’t even that Natsu’s magic cant effect concepts in certain situations it , but that in this specific scenario he only burned away at time magic

Well an unsupported viewpoint won't hold up very well against what's directly stated. First you demand a direct manga statement, then when you look at something else that has a direct statement, that's suddenly still not enough.

But that only applies to natural phenomena in the world, like fire, and lightning, Magnetic Confinement Fusion isn’t really the same as either of those examples at all.

I'm going to say "Based on what?" again because you continue to assert things as true and then refuse to elaborate further. Your points are entirely conjectural, and a lot of people agree clearly, given the near-unanimous disagreement with the revision

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Where space time begins to distort, not where time begins to be erased, and yes, yes I do, my point isn’t even that Natsu’s magic cant effect concepts in certain situations it , but that in this specific scenario he only burned away at time magic

 

[Alsotime]

No, they're separate entities. Time Magic manipulates time itself, so both the magic and the thing it manipulates are being burned.

Or he could just be saying that his time magic is time itself and that he was burning it away, not that it matters because as explained that is more of a component of the nullifying nature of fire dragon slayer magic, the fact him burning time was mentioned at all to try to say 200 million degrees isn’t an outlier is completely random to me.

First you demand a direct manga statement, then when you look at something else that has a direct statement, that's suddenly still not enough.

Was a direct statement from the manga claimed that magic was holding plasma, and that both MCF fields were the exact same shown? No.

I'm going to say "Based on what?" again because you continue to assert things as true and then refuse to elaborate further. Your points are entirely conjectural, and a lot of people agree clearly, given the near-unanimous disagreement with the revision

Based on the story? Makarov was referring to natural elements, unless you seem to believe black hole is an actual black hole, why should we just assume this process is the exact same but magic when Makarov’s quote had nothing to do with anything of this nature?