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Fairy Tail: Downgrading a Handful of High 6-A Characters

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Alright, TBH, at the beginning of this CRT, I had no stake in the fight as I thought this would go smoothly, but apparently not, so let me get into this

Here's what we know
Some of this stuff is very conflicting, because Aldoron implies he hasn't weakened that much from his Full Power and Merc seem to imply that Selene is using her Full Power in general, but these contradicted by the fact that Selene states her Human Form is far weaker than her Dragon Form and yet still the Full Power of the Dragon Gods are perfecly equal

So here's my conclusion, Selene effecting different worlds is a clear feat that is above anything Weakened Aldoron has down, this is directly implied by Merc and so therefore Human Form Selene is easily above the two 6-B feats, and thanks to Mercphobia and Aldoron, we know that Weakened Aldoron and 50% Merc are clearly not thousands of times weaker than their Full Power and they consider Human Form Selene to be near that level as well

Full Power Dragon Form Dragon Gods>Pre-SBT Dragon Form Acnologia>=Fairy Heart Zeref>>>Dragon Cry (Source of High 6-A rating, which is 482.4 Petatons)

The Full Power of the Dragon Form Dragon Gods are scaling far above more than 100x Baseline High 6-A, so they are well within High 6-A and even 1% power would still be High 6-A, so here's what they should be rated as

"At least 6-B+, likely High 6-A"

We know for a fact that they are way above the two 6-B feats, but we also know that all of them are almost certainly High 6-A, I seriously doubt any of these guys are even remotely weaker than 1% of their Full Power, that is some stupid ass shit that isn't supported, but since it isn't 100% certain, we'll leave it at a only a "likely"

And yes, this also applies to Dragon Force Natsu and Weakened Aldoron, not just the Human Forms anymore which is the one thing I didn't want to happen, but AnonymousBlank was being a brat and going for scorched Earth policy, so I had to step in and be the adult here

This is the case, you ain't getting a better deal, so everyone just man up and take the compromise, or so help me god, I'll break out the paddle
 
Nerd1435 said:
About this, it is a possibility that she's planning to make them use Dragon Force against DGs tho
Click to expand...
That would completely ruin her plan of a World of only humans and herself, so likely not.

Also Selene made those statements in reference to the power Suzaku showcased in their battle, she makes that very clear in the scan.
 
This “compromise” brings in completely new issues, like the fact that Dragon Force Natsu and a somewhat weakened Aldoron should not fall out of High 6-A in any capacity

The initial “At least 6-B, possibly High 6-A” seems appealing by comparison
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
This “compromise” brings in completely new issues, like the fact that Dragon Force Natsu and a somewhat weakened Aldoron should not fall out of High 6-A in any capacity

The initial “At least 6-B, possibly High 6-A” seems appealing by comparison
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Oh I agree, I don't think they would ever fall out of High 6-A, in fact I don't think any of these guys wouldn't be High 6-A TBH, Human Form Selene being even 1% of her Dragon Form would be High 6-A, which makes me reconsider my initial agreement with the OP yet again

But you said by no means did you think Human Forms deserve High 6-A, and so now we are where we are
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
And yes, this also applies to Dragon Force Natsu and Weakened Aldoron, not just the Human Forms anymore which is the one thing I didn't want to happen, but AnonymousBlank was being a brat and going for scorched Earth policy, so I had to step in and be the adult here
Click to expand...
Stay mad 😈 If peeps are tryna toss out scaling they think is “wrong”, I will gladly toss out what actually is.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Stay mad 😈 If peeps are tryna toss out scaling they think is “wrong”, I will gladly toss out what actually is.
Click to expand...
If Dragon Force Natsu claps a DSK, then Weakened Aldoron>Human Form Selene

That one scene is the one thing saving Human Form Selene, I still don't think it's very valid

I would say Weakened Aldoron stays fully High 6-A, and Human Form Selene becomes Likely High 6-A

Or they both stay High 6-A and we nuke the scalings of Point 1 and Points 3
 
You saw what I said on Discord. If any of that shit with DSK happens, I am perfectly fine with downgrading Human forms. My issue is that right now it makes no sense to disregard Merc when what he says adds a crap ton of context to the Aldoron stuff.

I honestly think that Aldo should be dropped to whatever his best feat is regardless of what we agree on for Selene but since I know peeps will try to lynch me if I keep going (don’t worry. I’ll be back), put me down for they are both High 6-A but still nuke 1 and 3. 1 doesn’t make too much sense and is weak support at best, 3 makes no sense at all imo.

Also DF Natsu clapped Aldosmol so ….. 🤷‍♂️
 
You know what? No! Anonymous and Yoyco are both reading these statements so wrong

This statement
dp2IaOh.jpg

And this statement are separate
3LyKqSz.jpg

Mercphobia at no point says that what Selene is doing is a direct result of her being above Aldoron and himself, all that Mercphobia says is that her effecting other worlds is one of the reasons that beings like her are called "God", at no point does he imply he couldn't do the very same if he had more of his power, remember at this point, Mercphobia is severely weakened and has pretty much all of his magic power gone

He then makes an entirely separate statement that while his current state has lost almost of his power and Aldoron was weakened when he was defeated, Selene has access to her original power, and her original power isn't her Human Form, he's referring to her Full Power, which is her Dragon Form. Merc doesn't say specifically that the present power in her Human Form that she is using right now is the original power he is referring to. All he says is that her original power, being her Dragon Form is above his and Aldoron's Weakened states. Him and Aldoron never had access to their Full Power while Selene does, that's literally all that is being said. Once again, let me clarify that at no point does he say Human Form Selene is above Weakened Aldoron and Weakened Merc, he's saying Selene has access to her Full Power, and that she can use it while he and Aldoron couldn't. The idea that Human Form Selene is the original power being referred too is completely unsupported by the narrative of all of the scaling, that's just an assumption everyone is making because Selene is currently in her Human Form when Merc makes this statement.

So yes, this statement is being taken completely wrong, this does not mean Human Form Selene>Weakened Aldoron
 
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MITCH COMING IN CLUTCH!

Sorry if I wasn't able to get across what I was trying to say as well as I could've, but with the scans and Mitch's elaboration, my point's been reinforced about Selene and Aldoron. 6-B is what I want for these guys
 
Yeah now I'm more in favor of 6-B Acno unless we can prove that he also scales above the total power of Ars Magia.
 
Gotta agree with Mitch here, those statements are definitely reaching Anon

However I would like to point out that my reasoning for them having the possibly/likely High 6-A is separate from that.
Zackra1799 said:
Some things I would like to point out that I didn't see mentioned, Selene believes that the DDSKs working together can defeat Elefseria, keep in mind that this Elefseria is stronger than the one that fought Dogramag as he didn't have his dragon form when he beat him, and while despite being the weakest of the Dragon Gods, he was still considered close enough to be on their level.

She even believes that a combined effort between the DDSK's would pose a threat to the likes of Ignia or Viernes
Click to expand...
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You know what? No! Anonymous and Yoyco are both reading these statements so wrong

This statement
dp2IaOh.jpg

And this statement are separate
3LyKqSz.jpg

Mercphobia at no point says that what Selene is doing is a direct result of her being above Aldoron and himself, all that Mercphobia says is that her effecting other worlds is one of the reasons that beings like her are called "God", at no point does he imply he couldn't do the very same if he had his full power, remember at this point, Mercphobia is severely weakened and has pretty much all of his magic power gone
Click to expand...
And you just missed the implication that she is stronger? Everyone there compares the display to what Merc did and assumed it was his power until he corrected them.

The bolded was never claimed or refuted by anyone. I won’t pretend to speak for Yoyco but what I am saying is that he still had 50% and couldn’t do it. When he appeared, he didn’t affect anything with his MP like Selene does passively and had to actively lift the ocean. Same with Aldoron. If them raging and trying to destroy everything doesn’t affect the environment around them while Selene does so by accident in another dimension, it’s pretty obvious that she is being portrayed to be superior to them in those states.
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
He then makes an entirely separate statement that while his current state has lost almost of his power and Aldoron was weakened when he was defeated, Selene has access to her original power, being her Full Power in her Dragon Form, he doesn't say her present power is her original power and it's above him and Aldoron, he never says that once, all he says is that while him and Aldoron never had access to their Full Power, Selene does. Once again, let me clarify that he never says Human Form Selene is above Weakened Aldoron and Weakened Merc, he's saying Selene has access to her full power, and that she can use the Full Power of her Dragon Form. That's just an assumption everyone is making because Selene is currently in her Human Form when Merc makes this statement
Click to expand...
It isn’t a completely separate statement at all. He is still talking about the power of a god as he relates it to how both he and Aldoron weren’t fresh while Selene is and is still able to flex power “they call a god” unlike them.

Once again, no one claimed the bolded. The point being made here is that the power she is showing off is still on the level of a DG according to him and he makes a distinction between her vs himself and Aldoron.
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
So yes, this statement is being taken completely wrong, this does not mean Human Form Selene>Weakened Aldoron
Click to expand...
It really does. If everyone thinks this is the power of a god, said god corrects them and says it’s someone else, that someone else is at the very least comparable.

Onto the Weakened Aldoron stuff. He has no reason to be High 6-A in his weakened state. Merc straight up tells us that he never awakened fully and thus never had his full power. The entire High 6-A scaling for him hinges on a statement from GS Aldoron about only being slightly weakened by the loss of Metro, something that happened after Aldoron had already lost Wolfen. The assumption that GS Aldo is referring to being slightly weaker than full power Aldoron is unfounded and not supported by anything at all. GS Aldo never had Aldo’s full power, nor was he close to it either or else Merc wouldn’t be making a distinction between Selene and Aldo. Given both your and the site’s proclivity for lowballing when something is vague, it’s weird you chose now to go for the highball when it actually doesn’t make sense.

That said. This’ll be my last post on this. No point continuing when Mitch and Gamer are both set on the 6-B and I know that staff will side with them given both are knowledgeable on FT.

Because Murphy hates me, a disclaimer in the event someone takes the above as a shot on that “staff side with staff” tripe, it’s not. Mitch and Gamer definitely know their shit on FT just not on this so their input both as staff and KM holds a lot of weight and disagreeing with them on FT tends to be pretty dumb decision unless myself and Zack disagree with them in which case you know you are right.
 
Anywhay mitch points seens legit, but i can't wrap my head on the dragon gods human forms being less than 1% of their dragon forms, like maybe it is legit considering stuff like irene or natsu dragon force, but it just sounds so weird, homever i also can't think of an argument beyond my disbelief
 
Oh I get the idea that it seems very weird, but sometimes it just is like that
 
Because yes I must post again after I said I was done, Mashima does make villains of the current arc > villains of the last arc so Human Selene > the rest. Nuff said.

I am curious as to how Zackra’s argument goes tho.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
And you just missed the implication that she is stronger? Everyone there compares the display to what Merc did and assumed it was his power until he corrected them.
Click to expand...
The implication is by no means direct tho, who's to say Merc and Aldoron didn't passively effect other world when they went haywire, even in their weakened states, I mean it's not like the immediate area where Human Selene was had calamities happening, for all we know, other worlds were in fact experiencing storms when they were effected

But I'll deal more with why they didn't effect worlds further down
AnonymousBlank said:
The bolded was never claimed or refuted by anyone. I won’t pretend to speak for Yoyco but what I am saying is that he still had 50% and couldn’t do it. When he appeared, he didn’t affect anything with his MP like Selene does passively and had to actively lift the ocean. Same with Aldoron. If them raging and trying to destroy everything doesn’t affect the environment around them while Selene does so by accident in another dimension, it’s pretty obvious that she is being portrayed to be superior to them in those states.
Click to expand...
Merc is referring to his current state in which he basically has no magic power at all, and even if he was refering to his 50% state, the concept of Human Form Selene being over 1/2 of her Dragon Form is complete nonsense when we know for a fact that we know Human Form Selene<<<<<<Dragon Form Selene
AnonymousBlank said:
It isn’t a completely separate statement at all. He is still talking about the power of a god as he relates it to how both he and Aldoron weren’t fresh while Selene is and is still able to flex power “they call a god” unlike them.
Click to expand...
They are separate statements, the 1st statement is saying that the power to effect other worlds is something fitting for someone called a "God" and the 2nd statement is that Selene has access to her Full Power while Aldoron and Mercphobia didn't, at no point is it directly said that Human Form Selene>Weakened Aldorona and Mercphobia
AnonymousBlank said:
Once again, no one claimed the bolded. The point being made here is that the power she is showing off is still on the level of a DG according to him and he makes a distinction between her vs himself and Aldoron.
Click to expand...
Her being on the level of a "God" doesn't mean that she's above Weakened Aldoron, nothing about that implies the case
AnonymousBlank said:
It really does. If everyone thinks this is the power of a god, said god corrects them and says it’s someone else, that someone else is at the very least comparable.
Click to expand...
Carmille asked if this was Merc's power, to which he said no, it was Selene's power, and if you remember correctly, Selene's magic power involves interdimensional travel and is about how her magic can interact with and reach other dimensions, so of course when she gets serious, her powers, which are explicitly meant to travel from one dimension to another, her power reaches other worlds, Aldoron and Mercphobia have no such power, so when they get serious, they effects things their magic interact with

Selene's Magic deals with Dimensionional Travel and the Moon, so her flexing effects the Moon and other Dimensions

Aldoron's Magic deals with the Earth and Plants, so him flexing effects the Earth and Plants

Mercphobia's Magic deals with Water and the Sea, so him flexing effects the Oceans of the world

That's we don't see Weakened Aldoron and Weakened Mercphobia effect other Dimensions
AnonymousBlank said:
Onto the Weakened Aldoron stuff. He has no reason to be High 6-A in his weakened state. Merc straight up tells us that he never awakened fully and thus never had his full power. The entire High 6-A scaling for him hinges on a statement from GS Aldoron about only being slightly weakened by the loss of Metro, something that happened after Aldoron had already lost Wolfen. The assumption that GS Aldo is referring to being slightly weaker than full power Aldoron is unfounded and not supported by anything at all. GS Aldo never had Aldo’s full power, nor was he close to it either or else Merc wouldn’t be making a distinction between Selene and Aldo. Given both your and the site’s proclivity for lowballing when something is vague, it’s weird you chose now to go for the highball when it actually doesn’t make sense.
Click to expand...
Aldoron not fully awakening and not having his original power is cause of the God Seeds destruction, they literally died like seconds after he was unsealed, he flat out did not awaken fully before the God Seeds were destroyed, hell Mercphobia doesn't even know about the God Seeds for all we know, I mean Mercphobia explicitly says he doesn't know much about Aldoron cause they never meet and Aldoron says the God Seeds were something created after he was already sealed, so if Merc and Aldoron were to have met, it was likely before the God Seeds were created, Aldoron being somewhat weakened still applies to his Full Power and even then, I find it hard to believe he was at less than 1% Power for losing only 3 of the God Seeds, with none of them being the strongest. Aldoron directly says that the recovery of the God Seeds is what will restore his strength to normal and that with that power, he will consume the other Dragon Gods, so him being weakened is explicitly because of the God Seeds. Also remember that Aldoron stated that God Seed Aldoron had access to all the power of his Dragon Form, meaning his Full Power, and Aldoron had been storing power for 200 Years and had just awoken with access to even more power than ever before, it's ridiculous to assume he wouldn't have been at least within the ballpark of his full power after waking up from storing a shit ton of power. Plus Dragon Force Natsu used fire to beat Aldoron, who believed he was flat out immune to the stuff. Aldoron was hyped about Natsu's power and believed it was immensely powerful, it's absurd to suggest that he didn't consider Natsu within the ballpark of his full power, and there's still the comparison that Natsu's Magic Power, which we know directly refers to power in itself, is compared to Igneel.

So yeah, Weakened Aldoron and Dragon Force Natsu backscaling even a large portion below Aldoron's Power would not drop them out of High 6-A, by no means do I agree with that
AnonymousBlank said:
Because Murphy hates me, a disclaimer in the event someone takes the above as a shot on that “staff side with staff” tripe, it’s not. Mitch and Gamer definitely know their shit on FT just not on this so their input both as staff and KM holds a lot of weight and disagreeing with them on FT tends to be pretty dumb decision unless myself and Zack disagree with them in which case you know you are right.
Click to expand...
Well thanks for that at least

In general, I don't agree with the idea that Dragon Force Natsu and Weakened Aldoron wouldn't be High 6-A since all implications of power decrease are not implied to be massive and Full Power Aldoron is far above at least more than 100x Baseline High 6-A, I just don't agree that Human Form Selene is stronger than Weakened Aldoron and don't believe that is supported or stated by anything

As for Human Forms of the Dragon Gods and the DDSK and where they lie, they scale far above Ultimate Magic Form August, Dragon Form Irene, Base Zeref, and Igneel's Power+FDKM Natsu, so Baseline 6-B is warranted, although Zackra's point about the DDSK being a threat to Elefseria should be noted and it potentially means they should get a mention of High 6-A, but It's not as solid as I wish, I also agree it doesn't make much sense for the Human Forms to be less than 1% of their power either, I wish we could backscale them to Baseline High 6-A TBH, but that's not really how we do things

Whoo... That was a lot of text
 
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Mitch is on a roll with this. About the DDSK thing, I think it's worth noting but it's not concrete enough at the moment because of stuff like Selene saying "if you have the strength" and us not getting much beyond that. However, I do think that if we get more about this, we can revisit this subject.

For now, it seems best to scale them to 6-B as was proposed earlier.
 
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