• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fairy Tail Conceptual Manipulation Revisions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Deceived3596 said:
Yes, that's why this isn't Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, as if it was eliminating the very concepts of life and death, which it's stated capable of doing, and if these supposed concepts reference the universal variety of concepts (ala Type 2). Then everyone who is bound by life and death would've been erased since he would've eliminated those universal concepts.
Click to expand...
But in the case here they are removing the concepts of life and death through a mist that logically does not have a universal reach.
 
Yeah, that's the point. If Memento Mori was actively manipulating and eliminating the universal concepts of life and death, than when he activated the ability everyone who is bound by life and death should've been erased as he supposedly eliminated the universe concepts themselves, but that didn't happen, ergo that means he isn't manipulating the universal concepts, but rather, is instead manipulating people's personal concepts of life and death, which would just be Type 3.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Yeah, that's the point. If Memento Mori was actively manipulating and eliminating the universal concepts of life and death, than when he activated the ability everyone who is bound by life and death should've been erased as he supposedly eliminated the universe concepts themselves, but that didn't happen, ergo that means he isn't manipulating the universal concepts, but rather, is instead manipulating people's personal concepts of life and death, which would just be Type 3.
Click to expand...
He is eliminating the concept of life and death only within the mist not the universe.
 
Deceived3596 said:
🗿

Please read my previous posts, i'm not referencing "universe" as in a measurable distance in space, i'm referencing "universal" as in the collective amount of a select property.
Click to expand...
So the point you're wanting to raise as an anti stunt would be the characters surviving the memento mori?
 
Alright, with the distractions having been addressed let me finally jot down my thoughts on SBT's Conceptual Manipulation.

As a preface, here is Mitch's old SBT thread which contains all the scans I'll be using, and the explanation for SBT having Conceptual Manipulation in the first place. While I'll explain why I believe it should be considered as Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

We're told by Anna Heartfilia that the Space Between Time was indirectly created by time trying to fix itself after it was warped by Anna's usage of the Eclipse Gate. It's even speculated on that the concept of time was trying to repair itself from this damage, which while proposed as a hypothesis, seems to have more supporting evidence of being true compared to the previous interpretation as the Space Between Time is referenced to exist more like a concept rather than something physical.

So we have evidence of this potentially affecting the concept of time, so we'll now have to find out what exact "type" of concept this concept of time would be. Since we aren't directly told needed qualifiers for Type 2 or above, we'll have to derive such knowledge through deductive reasoning.

When Anna's referencing the "concept of time" it's contextually talking about her travels through time with the Eclipse Gate causing damage to the fabric of time itself. So it's referencing "time" in the general, universal sense of the word, not the personal sense of one's conception of time. This notion of generality is supported by Zeref's interaction with the Space Between Time, as after he absorbed the object of question alongside Fairy Heart, it's stated he's capable of manipulating "Space and Time, everything is mine to control". Which again implies the manipulation of those general constructs, not individual conceptions of them.

It's even further supported by Zeref's ultimate goal and Natsu's erasure of Zeref's magic:

With Zeref's ultimate goal, he wanted to activate an ability called "Neo Eclipse" which can only be gained through absorbing the Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time. What this ability does is connect the world with the Space Between Time, which when activated, allows Zeref to travel back in time, causing the previous world he inhabited to crumble away and give birth to another world. This again implies the Space Between Time affecting the general concept of time, not just one's personal conception.

Finally you have Natsu's flames burning up Zeref's magic, which is stated to cause "time itself" to burn away.

So with everything explained and referenced above, I believe we can assert with great probability that the Space Between Time should be considered as a Type 2 Concept.
 
Seeing Deceived's explanation i have been converted and now agree with Type 2 for the SBT and Type 3 for Memento Mori.
 
@Damage3245 @SamanPatou Could you check this to see if Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation makes sense for the Space Between Time?
Deceived3596 said:
Alright, with the distractions having been addressed let me finally jot down my thoughts on SBT's Conceptual Manipulation.

As a preface, here is Mitch's old SBT thread which contains all the scans I'll be using, and the explanation for SBT having Conceptual Manipulation in the first place. While I'll explain why I believe it should be considered as Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

We're told by Anna Heartfilia that the Space Between Time was indirectly created by time trying to fix itself after it was warped by Anna's usage of the Eclipse Gate. It's even speculated on that the concept of time was trying to repair itself from this damage, which while proposed as a hypothesis, seems to have more supporting evidence of being true compared to the previous interpretation as the Space Between Time is referenced to exist more like a concept rather than something physical.

So we have evidence of this potentially affecting the concept of time, so we'll now have to find out what exact "type" of concept this concept of time would be. Since we aren't directly told needed qualifiers for Type 2 or above, we'll have to derive such knowledge through deductive reasoning.

When Anna's referencing the "concept of time" it's contextually talking about her travels through time with the Eclipse Gate causing damage to the fabric of time itself. So it's referencing "time" in the general, universal sense of the word, not the personal sense of one's conception of time. This notion of generality is supported by Zeref's interaction with the Space Between Time, as after he absorbed the object of question alongside Fairy Heart, it's stated he's capable of manipulating "Space and Time, everything is mine to control". Which again implies the manipulation of those general constructs, not individual conceptions of them.

It's even further supported by Zeref's ultimate goal and Natsu's erasure of Zeref's magic:

With Zeref's ultimate goal, he wanted to activate an ability called "Neo Eclipse" which can only be gained through absorbing the Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time. What this ability does is connect the world with the Space Between Time, which when activated, allows Zeref to travel back in time, causing the previous world he inhabited to crumble away and give birth to another world. This again implies the Space Between Time affecting the general concept of time, not just one's personal conception.

Finally you have Natsu's flames burning up Zeref's magic, which is stated to cause "time itself" to burn away.

So with everything explained and referenced above, I believe we can assert with great probability that the Space Between Time should be considered as a Type 2 Concept.
Click to expand...
 
Damage3245 said:
Still got to continue my MHA post too
Click to expand...
Animated depiction of what Clover's going through right now in that Star and Stripe thread:

jay-skeleton.gif
 
Deceived3596 said:
Animated depiction of what Clover's going through right now in that Star and Stripe thread:
Click to expand...
If you think it's bad waiting for it, imagine how frustrating it is to want to be writing it but unable to find the time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Deceived3596
Viernes (Fairy Tail) Conceptual Manipulation Rework
Replies
18
Views
3K
LordGinSama
LordGinSama
Iamunanimousinthat
Reinstating Sailor Moon Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation standing
Replies
24
Views
2K
Iamunanimousinthat
Iamunanimousinthat
GarrixianXD
Small correction to Ley Lines manipulation
Replies
6
Views
617
GarrixianXD
GarrixianXD
Livinmeme
Conceptual popeye
Replies
11
Views
1K
Rokim21
Rokim21
REX9097
Ninjago Conceptual Manipulation
Replies
22
Views
1K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
Back
Top