Erza The Knight vs Copen The Avenger

[Smashtwig]

I was honestly just pretty bored and wanted to see something happen, something something both have lots of different weapons but they all have the same function of "attack opponent wry"

Erza:	Copen (7): The_Smashor, Bobe, Oleggator, Sonicflare9, JED, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Zackra1799​

Rules

Speed Equal, SBA otherwise

Erza - 2.4 Megatons (All First Key armors allowed, so no Nakagami Armor I think)

Copen - 3.1 Megatons (Gunvolt Chronicles: Luminous Avenger iX Key), Anthem Disabled

Erza - 179 Megatons - X784

Copen - 690 Megatons - iX1, Anthem Restricted

NOTE: This match was previous removed due to AP Changes of both characters, and as of recent events have lined up back to 7-A AP Values instead of Low 7-B AP Values, the new values do not seem to effect the matchup significantly

Points Brought Up

Erza
Pros

• Lightning Empress Armor pierces Prevasion, Holy Hammer possibly pierces Prevasion (unknown effectiveness as it has only shown to undo transmutations that are in a solid state, unlike Prevasion, very effective if it does work)
• Better Close Range Combat / Skill
• Canonically uses Lightning Empress against Lightning users, Copen’s default EX Weapon is Stellar Spark
• Can potentially keep up with Bullit Dashing with certain armors

Cons

• Primarily Close Range
• Ranged options like H. Wheel nullified by Flashfield
• Switching armors to keep up with Copen sacrifices other needed things to defeat him, such as switching from Lightning Empress (bypass Prevasion) to Flight (keep up with Bullit Dashing)

Copen
Pros

• 100+ Years of EXP, fought lightning specialists 6 or 7 times, most Falcons have Danmaku of some kind as their SP Skill
• Prevasion is Busted (essentially provides intangibility/invulnerability automatically with its cost being replenishable on a dime)
• Lots of Opportunities to Tag due to Erza’s close range combat
• High Mobility due to Bullit Dashing
• Flashfield nullifies physical projectiles thrown.
• Twin Shredder is a screen clear. Erza, being close ranged will likely be hit. Whether it hits or not, Copen returns to full health. Twin Shredder can be used multiple times, though with a cooldown

Cons

• Once hit with the Holy Hammer, Prevasion may be offline for the rest of the fight. (If the Holy Hammer even works)
• EXP likely has never covered someone with Erza's versatility, only having to deal with one Septima at a time. This is reduced to a degree with Erza having to be locked into whatever abilities an armor gives to her.

 

[Smashtwig]

I better explain how Prevasion works in case no one understands and misinterprets

It's essentially (automatic on hit) elemental intangibility, it turns Copen into electrons to automatically negate incoming damage for some time before turning into tangible state. It costs one "Bullit", but Copen can instantly "reload" his Bullits. Even the game itself acknowledges that Copen is essentially "invincible" so long as he keeps track of his Bullit count and "reloads" accordingly. In this intangible state however, he still is capable of attacking as well with his weapons, even striking with physical blows too. Best way to think about it is that you don't really "hit" the dude without taking care of the Bullits first, which then again, can be reloaded.

It's notable that electricity attacks do bypass this entirely however since Copen's version of Prevasion is a program rather than an ability, not sure if Erza would go straight to it in character, but from what I recall she starts with Heart Kruez Armor before going to H. Wheel- so on and so forth. I'm assuming as soon as she figures it out though she'd just lock herself into Lightning Empress.

I can't vote since I'm the OP but I'll just give pointers about Copen misunderstandings and arguments I guess (especially the former since no one seems to get things aaaaaa)- he's fought lightning specialists before but they're definitely his worst matchup so far in the franchise

 

[Xmark12]

I'm just gonna leave this here

 

[Smashtwig]

Just replace it with Copen and Reloading and yeah I guess it's the same thing

Is that a vote for Copen... even though Erza has the lightning stuff

 

[AnonymousBlank]

So Copen turns into electricity? Erza spams swords with HW, realises he turns into electricity and swaps to LEA where she can hit him. What does he do if people can hit him?

 

[Smashtwig]

In all 6 fights against Azure Strikers (lightning specialists with a lot of danmaku basically), he basically can only really dodge with skill and Bullit Dashing (which should hopefully be well explained in his profile, but I'll summarize it as super fast flight/8-Directional Air Dashing). Its his main way of both offense and defense.

Assuming that we use the end of the key instead of the beginning, Copen wouldn't be caught off guard by a lightning attack he sees, unlike in the intro stage.

I'm not sure how many times Erza uses LEA since I don't watch much FT, all I remember was against Laxus and Azuma, for a very short time that really only amounted to a beam of lightning if I recall. I don't really doubt that Copen can dodge due to 100 years of fighting, but I also don't doubt Erza's ability to hit either.

Doesn't her armors break too? Once LEA breaks Erza's kinda done for right? Plus, she needs to try different armors until she luckily happens to find the exact one she needs. If I recall she has 100s of different armors- so it's a 1/100s chance of picking the right one. Though, I'm assuming that she'd make more educated guesses each time. If I remember FT isn't a very techy verse, so she'd probably not know how Prevasion works right away to understand she needs LEA to mess with the subroutine

(If you want to see what the Azure Striker's he's previously fought are like, the entirety of Gunvolt 1, three Blade fights, and Asimov/Demerzel fights should give you an insight as to what they can do)

 

[Xmark12]

Bump

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump i guess

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump once more?

 

[Smashtwig]

Might as well

 

[Smashtwig]

anotha one

 

[The_Smashor]

Well, it's time the Gunvolt Guy fully analyzed things.

Right out of the gate, Copen has a lot of advantages. He's been fighting for way longer, over a century. Sure, Erza is a doubtlessly a prodigy, but she's only had a tiny amount of time to hone her craft in comparison, even if she probably has better formal training. While Copen probably hasn't fought someone quite like Erza, he's probably dealt with enough that he's ready for most anything.

Prevasion is obviously a huge factor, giving Copen all but total control over the fight. As for Erza's Lightning Empress Armor, Lightning alone dosn't really counter Copen's Prevasion. Specifically Azure Strikers can counter it thanks to their control over electrons, any old lightning won't do.

Erza's best strategy would be to force Copen to Bullit Dash several times so she can wear out his Prevasion. However, considering Copen can have up to six Bullits, this would be extremely difficult.

Erza also generally likes fighting up close (Due to being a swordfighter and such), giving Copen plenty of opportunity to tag her and deal unavoidable damage. Even if Erza reacts by switching to ranged armors, Copen's still great at long ranges and has plenty of ways to clear the distance.

Copen also has the Regenerator subroute, which fully heals him when he uses Twin Shredder, greatly improving his survivability.

Copen dosn't stomp, but he wins much more often than not.

 

[Smashtwig]

Sir I'm also the Gunvolt Guy

Also any old lightning can work too, just look at some of the lightning enemies in iX, they aren't masters or anything they just make shapes of electricity to attack, and it works

 

[Bobepipipiri]

copen makes erza cope fra

 

[The_Smashor]

Also any old lightning can work too, just look at some of the lightning enemies in iX, they aren't masters or anything they just make shapes of electricity to attack, and it works

Well, that's kind of inconsistent with what's been established. I guess Copen artificially made the Azure Striker stuff instead of making from Asimov's blood in the iX timeline, so that'd probably explain it.

As for the matchup, Erza still needs to figure out that Lightning can pierce Prevasion, which isn't a likely conclusion when Copen himself uses lightning and almost everyone in Erza's verse that manipulates an element can also absorb it, or at least resists it.

 

[Zackra1799]

Well, that's kind of inconsistent with what's been established. I guess Copen artificially made the Azure Striker stuff instead of making from Asimov's blood in the iX timeline, so that'd probably explain it.

As for the matchup, Erza still needs to figure out that Lightning can pierce Prevasion, which isn't a likely conclusion when Copen himself uses lightning and almost everyone in Erza's verse that manipulates an element can also absorb it.

Erza canonically leads with Lightning Empress armor against Lightning users.

But if that doesn't work, her Holy Hammer actually also allows her to neg transmutation on others for a significant period of time, and given Elemental Intangibility is just Self Transmutation as it turns you into a different substance/material she could just completely neg the ability all together that way, which means she could use any of her arsenal to harm Copen.

 

[The_Smashor]

Erza canonically leads with Lightning Empress armor against Lightning users.

But if that doesn't work, her Holy Hammer actually also allows her to neg transmutation on others for a significant period of time, and given Elemental Intangibility is just Self Transmutation as it turns you into a different substance/material she could just completely neg the ability all together that way, which means she could use any of her arsenal to harm Copen.

Example? Because that seems as stupid in universe as leading with Fire against Natsu.

Ok, but Copen is still way more skilled (Over a century of fighting various superpowered beings) and more agile (His White Tiger Jacket lets him fly at full speed and then turn on a dime).

Holy Hammer dispels specifically the effects of Real Nightmare due to it being evil, as the hammer dispels evil. Real Nightmare is also magical. There's no evidence of Holy Hammer being able to remove the effects of technological or septimal transmutation.

 

[Zackra1799]

Example? Because that seems as stupid in universe as leading with Fire against Natsu.

Ok, but Copen is still way more skilled (Over a century of fighting various superpowered beings) and more agile (His White Tiger Jacket lets him fly at full speed and then turn on a dime).

Holy Hammer dispels specifically the effects of Real Nightmare due to it being evil, as the hammer dispels evil. Real Nightmare is also magical. There's no evidence of Holy Hammer being able to remove the effects of technological or septimal transmutation.

Lightning Empress Armor grants resistance to Lightning attack so she dons it against lightning users like Laxus, she donned Fire Empress against Natsu as well as it grants resistance to fire.

He does have the experience edge I'll give him that but skilled I'm not so sure. Erza can pull off some crazy stuff. She's fought with swords in between her toes while restrained, deflected her own danmaku casually, and in her second fight against cobra she kept up with him in combat despite him being many time faster and stronger than her at the time and he could even read her thoughts to know what her next moves were gonna be. Erza herself has her own flight and plenty of ranged options as well.

What? that not at all how that works. She isn't nullifying Real Nightmare itself just its effects, so it being magic based doesn't matter here. That's like saying you can't resist things outside of your own verse because they run off a different power system.

 

[The_Smashor]

Lightning Empress Armor grants resistance to Lightning attack so she dons it against lightning users like Laxus, she donned Fire Empress against Natsu as well as it grants resistance to fire.

He does have the experience edge I'll give him that but skilled I'm not so sure. Erza can pull off some crazy stuff. She's fought with swords in between her toes while restrained, deflected her own danmaku casually, and in her second fight against cobra she kept up with him in combat despite him being many time faster and stronger than her at the time and he could even read her thoughts to know what her next moves were gonna be. Erza herself has her own flight and plenty of ranged options as well.

What? that not at all how that works. She isn't nullifying Real Nightmare itself just its effects, so it being magic based doesn't matter here. That's like saying you can't resist things outside of your own verse because they run off a different power system.

It's not like Copen can't deal with someone ignoring his prevasion anyways, espesially since Lola would be able to tell him if Erza is resisting Stellar Shock and he can change his strategy accordingly.

Erza's flight is considered very limited and many of her ranged options can be countered by Flashfield (Swords, for example are large and physical enough to be blocked by it). While Erza is more skilled in terms of formal combat training, Copen's sheer experience is nothing to scoff at. He's spent most of his over a century of fighting, doing so against people with all sorts of various abilities. Erza's arsenal aside from her lightning is still also basically useless. If she uses an armor that can fly, she has no counter against Prevasion.

Whatever, it's meant to dispel evil, and can only dispel Real Nightmare because it dispels evil. Technology like Copen's isn't evil, simply cold unfeeling steel. Also I don't think Real Nightmare is as potent as instantly turning the body into subatomic particles.

 

[Zackra1799]

It's not like Copen can't deal with someone ignoring his prevasion anyways, espesially since Lola would be able to tell him if Erza is resisting Stellar Shock and he can change his strategy accordingly.

Erza's flight is considered very limited.

Whatever, it's meant to dispel evil, and can only dispel Real Nightmare because it dispels evil. Technology like Copen's isn't evil, simply cold unfeeling steel. Also I don't think Real Nightmare is as potent as instantly turning the body into subatomic particles.

Erza is also full capable of reacting and picking apart weaknesses on the fly, so she could switch her own armors to better defend against his other attacks as well and switch right back to her Lightning empress when she attacks.

Its only limited because its completely reliant on specific equipment and isn't something she can do innately. However regardless she can make any number of her weapons fly and attack with him TK.

"Dispelling Evil" is just an inverse term and is just used to describe the ability to dispel the effects of Real Nightmare, it isn't limited to just Evil things as it was very effective against Cobra in their fight who wasn't exactly evil.

 

[Smashtwig]

How about we just assume that the Hammer goes through Prevasion, that still means Erza is locked between the Hammer and the Lightning right? Or like, is being hit by the hammer like, a status effect which would make Prevasion unavailable for a time?

 

[The_Smashor]

Once again, literally no evidence that the hammer would work on things that aren't A: Magic and B: Evil.

 

[Smashtwig]

Can you please specify exactly what the Real Nightmare's Transmutation is like?

And, does she need to hit with the hammer to make its effects work?

 

[Zackra1799]

Once again, literally no evidence that the hammer would work on things that aren't A: Magic and B: Evil.

To disprove this Evil argument, Real Nightmare was caused by Lucy, who isn't evil, and the hammer was still perfectly able to use nullify the effects.

Again it being magic based doesn't matter here as she isn't nullifying the magic itself just the effects otherwise It would have nullified the entirety of Real Nightmare right then and there. You are basically saying that general resistances aren't universal which is dumb and doesn't work at all.

Can you please specify exactly what the Real Nightmare's Transmutation is like?

And, does she need to hit with the hammer to make its effects work?

Real Nightmare just sends out an Omnidirectional Wave and anything that it touches gets affected by Real Nightmare. Real nightmare does a variety of effects, one of which is transmutation as it turned juice into grapes with the stem, houses into stone, and Elfman into Paper.

Yes but she can nullify the effects even after they are already affected, and they last for an unknown amount of time but its at least as long as the rest of the arc as none of those characters are affected afterwards by Real Nightmare again.

 

[Smashtwig]

Okay, I got this from the episode 146 summary on the Fairy Tail wiki

"In the meantime, the Fiore Guards attempt to fire at the Infinity Clock using Lacrima cannons, though their attacks are rebounded due to the effects of Real Nightmare much to their dismay. This action is witnessed by those on Christina. Suddenly, they begin to experience similar effects from the magical object; however, Erza is the only one without change. She wonders why and summons her new Magic Hammer, which she uses to hit everyone with. Each one of them returns to normal within a few seconds."

It seems like she has to hit with the hammer first, though at the same time, the people she hit were allies transformed into solid objects, or, something like that. Lets assume that she needs to "hit" Copen's electron form to turn him back to normal. Doesn't this mean that Copen can become electrons again as long as the hammer doesn't hit him? If so, that would lock Erza into using just the hammer then, which in all honesty, would kinda suck for her. We can't even say that it perma turns off as long as the Hammer is around since Erza wouldn't need to hit them in order for them to be... not transmutated right? It seems its more of a defensive item anyways, so it may not be the first thing that comes to mind, especially if the Lightning Empress already works (she defaults to it as soon as she sees Copen use like, Stellar Spark right?)

 

[Smashtwig]

Oh, I missed the part where they last for the rest of the Arc. Well that really just means that Copen goes Prevasionless... Plus, uh, she'll have to hit him first (again debatable how it works with Prevasion since the transmuted objects she hits were solid so).

If Copen sees a plain old giant hammer after her trying so many other super cool weapons, I'm sure he's smart enough to Bullit Dash outta there. Plus, I kinda doubt Erza would use something other than LEA after she would confirm it working. (Dang, we haven't even started talking about Copen's other stuff)

 

[Smashtwig]

Well, that's kind of inconsistent with what's been established. I guess Copen artificially made the Azure Striker stuff instead of making from Asimov's blood in the iX timeline, so that'd probably explain it.

Actually if you looked close enough it's implied that Copen got his lightning stuff from Gunvolt, though I'm not too sure about it. In iX, Lola's eyes are blue while in GV2 they're purple. Gunvolt's eyes are blue, Asimov's are purple.

 

[The_Smashor]

While that's certainly an interesting theory, there's no evidence supporting it since Copen had already left the Firmament before Gunvolt died and Gunvolt's corpse was used to give Blade her septima.

It's not really relevant to this debate anyways.

 

[Smashtwig]

Alright then, well, assuming that Erza gets past Prevasion, and that the Hammer works as intended, how would she fight from there? I'm assuming up close, since HW's swords is probably not making it past Flashfield. Copen is kinda mobile, and has some close range options like Orbital Edge to make that hard.

 

[Smashtwig]

I also want to point out that Erza will likely encounter Copen’s Flashfield before Prevasion first if she leads with projectiles, which may or may not affect the process of strategy building. What can she do against consecutive homing attacks from many many angles? After tagging, Copen mainly focuses on defense, dodging attacks from a range while simultaneously firing a storm of projectiles with no need to aim thanks to his tag

 

[The_Smashor]

I should also note that if Erza switches to her Lightning Empress Armor, from what I can tell from what I've been told, she wouldn't actually use her lightning and she'd only use it for the lightning resistance.

 

[Smashtwig]

She’s only used it in two fights to my recollection. In both she used the armor’s ranged attacks. Though, these attacks seem rather basic, electric beams, calling down lightning, something Copen should dodge easily given his experience fighting Azure Strikers like, 6 or 7 times.

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump again

 

[Smashtwig]

bumpo

 

[Smashtwig]

Updated Prevasion vid specifically for Copen, also an excuse to bump

 

[Oleggator]

Wrooooooooom.


I'm here and so I'll try to summarize what I've seen. So, Copen can become intangible but Erza can counter it overtime. Coper have also better range since I guess attacks by which Erza would be able to touch Coper would be not ranged (correct me if I wrong), both would have equal intelligence, Erza have higher stamina so it's possible for her to outlast. I think at the moment with AP advantage Copen should beat Erza faster than Erza would understand Copen's abilities. Especially if Coben would keep distance.

 

[Smashtwig]

So that a Copen vote?

 

[Oleggator]

So that a Copen vote?

yes

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump

honestly thought more people would be interested in this cuz Fairy Tail seems pretty popular, did I tag something wrong?

 

[Sonicflare9]

copen fra