Erza Scarlet Tier

[LaxusDreyar]

More Magic means almost every stat (except intelligence, experience and maybe reaction speed) gets a boost. Natsu's Etherion DF, LFD and Second Origin are proof of that.

And the way I see it, Pre-SO Erza was only able to block and overpower Kagura because of her Flame Pants Armor which allows her to focus all her Magic into a single sword which Kagura most probably cannot do.

Their fight turned out to be a "Who has the stronger sword" fight rather than a "Who is stronger overall" fight.

But that aside, Seilah's Tier and Attack Potency need to be scaled down. This doesn't even come close to being City level even if we use Pulverization. I don't even think it's a Town level feat. Although tbf to Seilah, that attack was an unnamed one and she had a stronger attack up her sleeve, so I would be okay with her being 7-C/Town level.

Also, Pre-First Timeskip Evergreen is not 7-C when Pre-First Timeskip Erza (who rekt the former without using any armor) is only 8-A..

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Seilah is supposed to be City level cuz she harmed/matched Mirajane...

I'll probably downgrade Evergreen then...

 

[LaxusDreyar]

Pre-Second Timeskip Mirajane wasn't City level as well.

Current Laxus is City level (so far) and he's most probably far stronger than Current Mirajane who is stronger (if not a lot stronger) than her Pre-Second Timeskip self and Seilah (who aren't 7-B)..

 

[Antvasima]

Feel free to do so.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Pre-Second Timeskip Mirajane wasn't City level as well.
Current Laxus is City level (so far) and he's most probably far stronger than Current Mirajane who is stronger (if not a lot stronger) than her Pre-Second Timeskip self and Seilah (who aren't 7-B)..

First. There's no proof of this and it's only speculation. It was already agreed that Natsu should be scaled to Jellal as the power difference between him and Jellal shouldn't be that large. Erza and a lot others such as Mirajane and Luxus were usually portrayed as being stronger than Natsu.

Second. Once again that's speculation. We don't know how powerful Laxus is incomparision to Mira.

But I'll edit Seilah's stats...

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Laxus and Gildarts are portayed as being the most powerful mages in fairy tail,Natsu being scaled to Jellal is not exacly right because jellal is city level only with sema,his other attacks are not nearly that strong.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Yeah and Natsu has already defeated Laxus and has defeated Bluenote someone who could give gildarts a hard time.

Also it's already been discussed that natsu being 290 times weaker than Jellal is impossible considering that natsu had already defeated Jellal once before. and I don't want to get into this discussion again...

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Sorry for being tiring but in the fight with natsu jellal didnt use sema he probably didnt even have it.

It would be better if we put natsu as a small city -probably city level (in my opinion)

 

[LaxusDreyar]

290 times? The difference between 7-B to 7-C is only x10. And Natsu didn't beat Jellal and Laxus on his own.

Against Jellal, he had Etherion. Without it, Natsu would have lost.

Against Laxus, Natsu had Gajeel (and there's also the fact Laxus wasn't at 100% because he wasted most of his Magic on Thunder Palace and Fairy Law which didn't affect Natsu or Gajeel).

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

He most likely didn't have it. I agree but Natsu never used any of his stronger moves either. So simply put the fight between Natsu and Jellal never showed any major feats.

That still puts Natsu as being 19 times weaker than Jellal. And it makes everything else which happens later on very inconsistent if Natsu and the others would be that weak.

But I'll get back to this tomorrow. I'm currently stacked with work....

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

290 times? The difference between 7-B to 7-C is only x10. And Natsu didn't beat Jellal and Laxus on his own.
Against Jellal, he had Etherion. Without it, Natsu would have lost.

Against Laxus, Natsu had Gajeel (and there's also the fact Laxus wasn't at 100% because he wasted most of his Magic on Thunder Palace and Fairy Law which didn't affect Natsu or Gajeel).

I'm seriously getting tired of explaining everything. First of all. If a character's stats aren't based on a clac and if he has stas like Town Level we usually assume the lowest end for it which is 10 Kt for this and Jellal's calc resulted in 19Mt. But for this I assumed Natsu to be the highest end for Town Level which is 100Kt and it made Jellal 190 times stronger than Natsu. It seems I typed 290 instead of 190.

Etherion allowed Natsu to enter Dragon Force. Natsu's City Level stats were based on his DF IIRC.

Yeah so. Wasted most of his magic. Again this is speculation which is clearly wrong as he showed literally no signs of being tired...

 

[LaxusDreyar]

1) Lol. I forgot 7-B and 7-C are divided to 3 categories each so fair enough I guess.

2) Fair enough.

3) He did. You can see him panting and even shaking from the amount of Magic he used. And the less Magic one has, the more their stats go down (Offense, Durability, Speed etc..). Not to mention Laxus didn't even use Lightning Body (AKA his real speed) against them.

Not showing signs of being tired =/= being at 100%. Thunder Palace takes a lot of MP from the user. After summoning 200 simple swords, Erza fell down to her knees. She still had to summon 100 more if she wanted to take down Thunder Palace on her own.

4) Btw, Erza's Striking Strength is not Class PJ. I think she should be around Class GJ+ like Pre-Second Timeskip Base Natsu was until we see more feats from her in that area.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

That was after using Fairy Law my post was for the fact that he showed no signs of being tired after uing thunder palace. And energy required for summoning swords and maintaining the swords =/= energy required for making thunder palace. Also Erza's magical energy =/= Laxus' magical energy. But I'll agree with ya on this.

I'll go through all the Fairy Tail stats later on and fix those. For now I need to go...

 

[DarkLordZeta]

Thunder Palace was more of a weak type thing, not that it was weak but it didn't require magic until it needed to be used. Also Erza only uses magic to summon her weapons not to maintan, she's not really a mage, she's just TenTen XD

 

[LaxusDreyar]

Thunder Palace was more of a weak type thing, not that it was weak but it didn't require magic until it needed to be used. Also Erza only uses magic to summon her weapons not to maintan, she's not really a mage, she's just TenTen XD

1) Thunder Palace had 300 Lacrimas each containing 2 types of Magic in them. One type is an enormous amount of Lightning Magic and the other is Organic Link Magic. Thunder Palace as a whole was a Town level spell (possibly even more when taking the panel where Hiro drew a couple Lacrimas going off into account). How was it weak? It was easily one of the strongest spells shown up until that point in the story.

2) Saying Thunder Palace does not require Magic until the user activates it is speculation at best. These Lacrimas were up in the air and were already filled with Lightning and Organic Link Magic which came from Laxus's body.

Not to mention the spell was set to activate automatically after a certain amount of time. Which means Laxus didn't need to activate it himself. It worked pretty much the same as Azuma's Time Bomb

And here, you can see the spell less than a minute before it goes off and it didn't seem to affect Laxus anymore than it did an hour before it was set to activate.

3) I'm pretty sure Erza is a Mage m8.. :/

 

[Czuczian11]

Erza can also use telekinesis

 

[DarkLordZeta]

1.You say an enormous amount, but lightning is already dangerous it wouldn't take much energy for them to do a lot of damage, and Town Level is speculation.


2.Yes but they weren't going to be using any magic till activated.


3.Not really, she's just a wannabe magicial girl, to be honest none of the characters are truly mages, they just have super powers labeled as magic....Erza just transports weapons from another dimension then physically fights.

 

[Czuczian11]

When she was yound she used plain teleinesis. She didn't summon weapons she used slave's tools and guard's swords with it, also when she was trying to commit sucide during fight against Jose.

But yeah, Erza isn't typical mage.

However several characters are almost typical examples- Hades aka Purehito, Orgast/August (old guy from alvarez), Brain and his archieve, Jellal , Mystogan (which is fun because he wasn't even mage, he just used magical staffs).

Also by that way of thinkin you could assume that ninjas from naruto aren't true ninjas (no typical ninja can use for example Amaterasu , because if it was true we would all live in Japan since ages)

 

[DarkLordZeta]

If Telekinesis is considered magic I feel bad for them having to waste energy on it XD. It's usually a basic ability,.


Correct she's not and as you said several of them have magicial like things, the others are just manipulation of energy and other things.


True but it started out with Ninja like stuff, and old ninja tails have stuff like that in them, most magical stories don't have the techniques they use it's usually other stories. It's just another example of Mashima being lazy and taking the easy way out


Erza is far from a mage she's more of a battle girl, and only uses magic to access weapons, without her armor, and Mashima's sloppy writing, she's practically useless

 

[Czuczian11]

Yep, in case of magic she is one of wekaest mages without preparation (she had to buy/create/craft or something else) , she have only limited immuinty to illusions and petryfication and telekinesis. But she is one of strongest wariors in universe. Compared to another swords(wo)manships she have almost no magic outside of her battle equipment ( Kagura's Gravity control and Ikaruga's limited fire manipulation). Even Lucy have acces to more devastating (and more magical ability) called Uranometria (spell with incantation, echich is rare in that series) Jellal is in other hand genius archmage, he managed to cast Abbyss Break so it mean he had to have good control over 4 elemnts. He also have a lot of spells : Binding Snake, Magic Staffs , Telekinesis (also), Can use perfectly items that he had never seen earlier (mystogan's staffs).

Definition of mage is very flexible. For us, plain muggles even card trick can be considered as magic so when it comes to "basic" abilities like teekinesis should we assume users as mages? In Fairy tail universe all tat abilites are considered as magic instead of Shikai,Haki,Chi,Reiatsu, Chakra and other creative stuff. It is only reason to classify that abilites because there is no other universe where egg creation and throwing it in people (and dealin them damage , despite their high durability) and death waves or life creation can be counted as same type of abilty (magic). It is easy, but it have some "magic" in it. It is (which can sound weird now) creative because he didn't considered it as for example Ferghoasfinth power or The Seiots (names were of course created randomy by me ). He simpy called it magic.

 

[DarkLordZeta]

Yeah Gellal I see as a Mage his abilities fall into that


True, but I consider them basic manipulation and super powers, and they have to use energy for certain things, when people who manipulate them in other series can use them effortlessly for certain things it's funny.

 

[Czuczian11]

Yep that can be hilarious. for example in Harry Potter i neve saw an example of someone running out of "mana". Even Neville or lets say Molly Weasley could spam all day all night (almost) any spell they desired without any limitation.

But for example in Eragon , Emerged World , even in Xanth last example is not always correct) the abilites of Sorcerrers or Mages or Witches or Warlocks or Wizards were always limitaed to energy (phyisical, mental or other- magicla like one). It is nowhere stated that magic have no power limitations. Neither it is never stated that it require pact with devil or have unlimited range. It depends on universe. If in Fairy Tail it is called magic - it is magic.

 

[DarkLordZeta]

True haha, but it's also kinda sad because people like Warren speciliaze in telepathy magic, or others have basic abiites and that's all they use. Then it really shows how weak they are because others can do it and have other abilities in other series, like Mest who can only use memory magic and teleportation while it's useful in their verse other series have people who can do that and a million other things

 

[Czuczian11]

Sure but for exapmle Warren can use magic that even Zeref didn't shown. Telepathy itself is powerful ability, but it isn't suited for battle. For example: If someone in our world had ability to create fire storms he or she would be useful in little variety of things, most like only in military, while someone with Telepathy could communicate with everyone. Well however it is hilarious because we could assume cell phone as item that grants that ability ;p. So guess what is more useful in everyday life smartphone or flamethrower? No all characters have to be fighters- for example Mest isn't (well he is but he could be beaten even by Romeo i think) but he is useful as he shown during last arc. Noone other from team could save Makarovs life. Of course Natsu and Erza are top tiers but Mest (who is in tier of Exceed) could do what they couldn't. And one more thing: imaine Mest with a knife (Teleport-basktab-Teleport) he could even kill Mard Geer that way. While only 10% of population have acces to magic even Nab or Vijeecter are very dangerous units to random citizen.

 

[DarkLordZeta]

I know but that wasn't my point XD I was just saying

Warren has Telepathy

but so does Piccolo but he can do a thousand other things, therefore it makes Warren pretty pathetic by other series standards because that's all he can do

 

[Czuczian11]

You are absolutely right, but comapring someone from DB where a lot of peole can destroy a planet to random from FT wheere Top tiers are max City/Mountain level is strange

 

[Alpha149]

Well, if the durability had been higher than the attack potency, Erza Scwrlet and Erza Knightwalker had been unable to harm each other.

For what I know (for example) a Building Level DC character can one-shot a Building Level Durability Character

So, if Durability is higher than the AP, that's means than you can resist and survived that attack


Also, why Kagura's Slash is Town Level?

I don't know how many times is Crocus bigger than Magnolia ( www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15374 )

 

[DarkLordZeta]

You are absolutely right, but comapring someone from DB where a lot of peole can destroy a planet to random from FT wheere Top tiers are max City/Mountain level is strange

Well I could've used any series that has telepathy XD Dr.Strange or Martian Manhunter

 

[Czuczian11]

Yep but Waren isn't someone notable, i dont think he will ever get his 5 minutes (And even if it will not be fight).

 

[DarkLordZeta]

Yep but Waren isn't someone notable, i dont think he will ever get his 5 minutes (And even if it will not be fight).

True but I was pointing out how FT characters magic is kinda lame because some specialize in One or two things and to others it's just a basic ability

 

[LaxusDreyar]

1.You say an enormous amount, but lightning is already dangerous it wouldn't take much energy for them to do a lot of damage, and Town Level is speculation.
2.Yes but they weren't going to be using any magic till activated.

3.Not really, she's just a wannabe magicial girl, to be honest none of the characters are truly mages, they just have super powers labeled as magic....Erza just transports weapons from another dimension then physically fights.

1) I didn't say that. Cana did (and by extension, Hiro as well). Normal Lightning is dangerous to humans. But to Mages? Not really. I mean, there were plenty of cases where humans got hit by lightning, actually survived, and continued to live their lives normally.

The Lacrimas contained Lightning Magic. Not normal Lightning.

Using this calc, and the panel where Hiro drew a few Lacrimas going off, Thunder Palace being Town Level (possibly even more) is more than possible.

2) That doesn't make any sense. :/

The Lacrimas flying in the air already contained enormous amounts of Magic. Where would all that Magic come from?

The amount of Magic Thunder Palace needs was already taken from Laxus's body. Just because the spell was on standby doesn't mean it didn't take Magic away from him.

3) If Hiro says his characters use Magic. They use Magic. You want to argue with facts? Go for it.

4) Saying things like "Mashima's sloppy writing" and "wannabe Mage" doesn't really help support your claims in any way. In fact, it does the opposite.

 

[Czuczian11]

Laxus is right. Even the fact that the lacrymas were flying means tey were sustained by magic. It is however unknown it was draining magic from him. Maybe he prepared them earlier and enhanced it with magic. But that would change nothing because in any way Thunder Palace isn't ability that can be cast without preparation like for example Konan's Paper Explosives Ocean.

 

[LaxusDreyar]

Laxus is right. Even the fact that the lacrymas were flying means tey were sustained by magic. It is however unknown it was draining magic from him. Maybe he prepared them earlier and enhanced it with magic. But that would change nothing because in any way Thunder Palace isn't ability that can be cast without preparation like for example Konan's Paper Explosives Ocean.

True. Thunder Palace can't be used in battle. But it proves Laxus is miles ahead of even Erza (in terms of MP at the very least). She fell to her knees summoning 200 simple swords while Laxus created 300 Lacrimas each one containing 2 types of Magic and kept on fighting Mystogan, easily dominated Natsu (he didn't even use Magic with some of his attacks) and flattened both him and Gajeel with one roar.

If Laxus wouldn't have used Fairy Law, he would have won through CQC alone easily.

 

[DarkLordZeta]

1.You say an enormous amount, but lightning is already dangerous it wouldn't take much energy for them to do a lot of damage, and Town Level is speculation.
2.Yes but they weren't going to be using any magic till activated.

3.Not really, she's just a wannabe magicial girl, to be honest none of the characters are truly mages, they just have super powers labeled as magic....Erza just transports weapons from another dimension then physically fights.

1) I didn't say that. Cana did (and by extension, Hiro as well). Normal Lightning is dangerous to humans. But to Mages? Not really. I mean, there were plenty of cases where humans got hit by lightning, actually survived, and continued to live their lives normally.
The Lacrimas contained Lightning Magic. Not normal Lightning.

Using this calc, and the panel where Hiro drew a few Lacrimas going off, Thunder Palace being Town Level (possibly even more) is more than possible.

2) That doesn't make any sense. :/

The Lacrimas flying in the air already contained enormous amounts of Magic. Where would all that Magic come from?

The amount of Magic Thunder Palace needs was already taken from Laxus's body. Just because the spell was on standby doesn't mean it didn't take Magic away from him.

3) If Hiro says his characters use Magic. They use Magic. You want to argue with facts? Go for it.

4) Saying things like "Mashima's sloppy writing" and "wannabe Mage" doesn't really help support your claims in any way. In fact, it does the opposite.

1) Possibly but that's speculation seeing as we never saw it's full power


2) Who knows when Laxus filled those Lacrima's it could be like Moryumaru from Inuyasha where he has to pour a lot of magic into it and then it leaves him drained, I doubt it was all at once, since Lacrima's store magic, it's more then likely he filled them up before hand


3) So if Hiro said the power they used was Mustard, then they must be using Mustard? It's only magic by FT standards, otherwise they're just basic superpowers


4) That's your opinion it doesn't help....Also his writing is evidently sloppy the Erza Power Scaling in Tartarus is proof enough of that not to mention most of her fights, and most of the other fights in FT too, Sayla, most of Natsu's Neo-Minerva. It's just kinda pitiful he can't write any good fights.


"True. Thunder Palace can't be used in battle. But it proves Laxus is miles ahead of even Erza (in terms of MP at the very least). She fell to her knees summoning 200 simple swords while Laxus created 300 Lacrimas each one containing 2 types of Magic and kept on fighting Mystogan, easily dominated Natsu (he didn't even use Magic with some of his attacks) and flattened both him and Gajeel with one roar.

If Laxus wouldn't have used Fairy Law, he would have won through CQC alone easily."


Again more speculation, I agree Laxus is ahead but I doubt by that much. Again Erza is kind of a shoddy mage seeing as she's just the TenTen of Fairy Tail in the powers department, kinda funny really it takes a toll on Erza but TenTen can use the same type of technique with minimal energy drain =). Also that goes to point out Mashima's bad writing again he can't powerscale =). Still he would've had to fill up the Lacrima's and he seemed to have been planning this so I'm sure he filled those up way ahead of time.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Why is this discussion still going on over a month after it started?

 

[DarkLordZeta]

Why is this discussion still going on over a month after it started?

Cause I was gone for awhile and wasn't able to reply back for quite some time

 

[Alpha149]

I Still thiking than Erza (Pre TS) has to be MCBL+ and Small Town Level with her strongest armors

 

[LaxusDreyar]

1) Possibly but that's speculation seeing as we never saw it's full power

2) Who knows when Laxus filled those Lacrima's it could be like Moryumaru from Inuyasha where he has to pour a lot of magic into it and then it leaves him drained, I doubt it was all at once, since Lacrima's store magic, it's more then likely he filled them up before hand

3) So if Hiro said the power they used was Mustard, then they must be using Mustard? It's only magic by FT standards, otherwise they're just basic superpowers

4) That's your opinion it doesn't help....Also his writing is evidently sloppy the Erza Power Scaling in Tartarus is proof enough of that not to mention most of her fights, and most of the other fights in FT too, Sayla, most of Natsu's Neo-Minerva. It's just kinda pitiful he can't write any good fights.

Again more speculation, I agree Laxus is ahead but I doubt by that much. Again Erza is kind of a shoddy mage seeing as she's just the TenTen of Fairy Tail in the powers department, kinda funny really it takes a toll on Erza but TenTen can use the same type of technique with minimal energy drain =). Also that goes to point out Mashima's bad writing again he can't powerscale =). Still he would've had to fill up the Lacrima's and he seemed to have been planning this so I'm sure he filled those up way ahead of time.

1) But Hiro actually drew a few Lacrimas going off. And each explosion (or whatever you want to call it) is well above the nearby houses there. There's more evidence that suggests Thunder Palace could have destroyed the town than the assumption it couldn't.

2) Laxus underestimated FT. He thought Evergreen could beat Erza. And if he thought Evergreen could do something like that, then why would he need to prepare Thunder Palace on top of Battle of Fairy Tail and his team (and himself)?

http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Thunder_Palace_(Spell)

"A Magic spell in which the user creates multiple Lacrima filled with enormous amounts of Lightning Magic and suspends them high up in the air in a circular formation around the target."

There were 300 Lacrimas. Each one of them this big. Even if he did prepare it beforehand (which I doubt), where would he keep it?

Fairy Law takes more Magic than Thunder Palace does and Laxus could cast it in half a minute at worst.

3) Yes. It's his Manga. If he says the characters in his manga attack with Mustard and Ketchup, then that's what they attack with. In Dragon Ball there's Ki, in Naruto there's Chakra. And in FT, there's Magic. Simple as that.

4) I just don't get the point in calling names and bashing Hiro's work in a thread called "Erza Scarlet Tier". Like I said, it's irrelevant and doesn't support your claims in any way.

5) Laxus would have wrecked Natsu and Gajeel easily if he hadn't used Fairy Law. That much is a no brainer. His casual roar alone flattened both Natsu and Gajeel. He's superior to them in literally every way. Not much they could have done really..

Gajeel himself admitted they didn't really win.

 

[DarkLordZeta]

1) Yes but not a full scale explosion, even if it was we can't say how bad it would've been and what wouldn't have been wiped off, for example King Piccolo wiped everything off the town every single building and their materials, can we say Laxus would have done the same or would their be rubble?


2.Yes that's true he did underestimate them big time, you bring up a point where would he store them? Well he lived in Magnolia for a long time he could've laid them anywhere. You asking that also brings up where did he even find 300 of them and how did no one notice them going in the sky,etc,etc,et.


3.)Yeah I get that but by definition in our world it's not magic, that's my point.


4.)It's not bashing, it's a harsh critcism, how he writes the fights leaves a huge amount of speculation, and guessing and filling in gaps, he's a bit lazy on that part. My point being it's hard to guess everything because Hiro apparently doesn't care.


5.) Yes he would have but can we say FL really drained that much since it was technically cancelled? Yes again my point being the power of Friendship in FT makes a lot of the powerscaling in FT nonesense because the fights themselves are not logical for example, Sting and Rogue VS. Jiemma, they were outmatched couldn't scratch him, friendship speach, easy win. My point being FT's powers are mostly based on Plot Devices and pardon my language asspulls.

 

[The_Everlasting]

When did this thread become about Laxus?