The_Legendary_Vin
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what does that have anything to do with this at all...
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Equal Stats Tournament V2: Twilight Sparke (MLP) vs Kakyoin (Jojo) (Finale)
- Thread starter DemonicDude
- Start date
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To much concidence that she can do every thing right while with great amount of anxiet
The_Legendary_Vin
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1. She gets hit by something she can't detect, panics, and retreats
2. She still has to go back to fight based on match rules if Im not mistaken
the rest should be pretty clear cut
The_Legendary_Vin
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anyways, Imma take a break, and let others put input in
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Depending she can just not come back if she want and BFR her self
Ok, Have a good day
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Oh, and sinse It was confirmed their mind continues "on" while transmuted(sinse they can be putted a sleep), voting kakyoin
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That is not what this means.
That's only for the Stone Sleep spell, which is not what she will use.
The Stone Sleep spell was specifically designed to imprison people forever, not kill them.
Her normal transmutation spell doesn't have those kinds of stipulations. Also, proof that he can even use a stand while sleeping if she did?
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Death 13?
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Is that even the same character?
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Yes
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Death 13 is a stand that trap you in your sleep, lakyoin was able to use His to fight sinse he had summoned HG before falling a sleep
CinnabarManx421
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Idk why we keep thinking that Stands are invulnerable to non stand attacks, they’re clearly not. Ebony Devil was able to attack Silver Chariot with a regular razor, Joseph was able to immobilize the Empress with regular Coal Tar, Dio was capable of interacting with and deflecting the Emerald Splash without The World. As long as a Stand is fully materialized it would be capable of being interacted with by a regular person. So if HG attacks her Twilight would be able to attack back and damage HG.
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1- Ebony Devil manifest stand energy possesing things, so stand energy aply on wepons he uses
Empress is a corporeal stand, just can't be heard by Nome stande users
Stand user them selfs can interact with stands non problem
CinnabarManx421
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I found a video that I think explains it pretty well.
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Okay. I can accept this, doesn't change the fact that her normal transmutation doesn't just put people to sleep.
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This one Still say stands are invulnerable, only that a good enough hit will phase trough them making possible to hit the user
I alread saw It
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I don't particularly care too much for who wins, but there are a couple things I don't agree with.
Non Physical interaction says hi. It's not on her tab, but it is officially accepted for all the magic users. I just really don't want to go through the profiles.
Non Physical interaction says hi. It's not on her tab, but it is officially accepted for all the magic users. I just really don't want to go through the profiles.
They're "Put to sleep" in the sense that their brain (Along with the rest of the body) is transformed into stone rendering it unable to work, on account of; ya know, being stone. Sleep isn't literal.
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False actually, never did in the manga, it actually manifested its true stand form (the weird tribal bug thing) and stabbed it with a sword. And even then. ED actually COULD do that shit because it can infuse Stand energy into objects of all kinds to grant it NPI.
Hilariously out of context and disingenuous, Empress is a bound stand which are defined by their nature of being bound to corporal objects and thus physical and can be seen, it being bound to Joseph's flesh, everyone can see and touch that Stand in particular due to its very nature, it's half its power.
Dio is unironically built different.
How to tell me you don't know what you're talking about without saying it directly.
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Also it's flatout stated that if you have your Stand manifested, if you sleep you can actually keep it manifested as long as you don't put it away before going to sleep.
It's stated that anyone can do this in theory, they just never think to or don't, Kak in one example actually did do this, he had HG out when he was ko'd, and HG stayed manifested and phased underground, this allowed Kak to defeat Death 13 as you can bring whatever you had in the waking world into the dream with you and as HG was out in the waking world while Kak was asleep, he could bring it with him to choke out Death 13 within the dream.
It's stated that anyone can do this in theory, they just never think to or don't, Kak in one example actually did do this, he had HG out when he was ko'd, and HG stayed manifested and phased underground, this allowed Kak to defeat Death 13 as you can bring whatever you had in the waking world into the dream with you and as HG was out in the waking world while Kak was asleep, he could bring it with him to choke out Death 13 within the dream.
The_Legendary_Vin
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I'd say the death 13 argument is valid, even if I don't think it'd be enough
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While the stands are invisible, Twilight has extrasensory perception, allowing her to detect magic which also doubles as a person's life force in MLP. If I understand stands correctly, they are a person's life force made manifest. I think she should be able to sense it and get a bead on where to attack it and dodge even if she can't see outright.
The_Legendary_Vin
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More or less so
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Perhaps, but also probably not, Stands on that layered shit, you need layered NPI to touch, you need layered ESP to see and I can't place a single time anyone in JoJo could sense a Stand's presence who wasn't already a Stand user, including those who can interact with spiritual things like Mikitaka or literal ghosts bar the alley hands which aren't even ghosts but an unstoppable force of the world or something according to guides.
And they aren't life force (or well, they aren't past like the first 15% of Part 3 as it's retconned and fleshed out shortly after, Stands originally were meant to be a sort of spirit Hamon, but that was quickly tossed for more soulish roots), they're more akin to a manifestation of a soul or the soul given form, life force energy would be closer to Hamon within the context of JoJo or like the shit something like Cheap Trick drains (and given Cheap Trick is a Stand..., well I doubt it was draining itself), and the only Stand that is connected to Hamon in particular, is Hermit Purple which is an evolution of that and a Stand one manifests after mastering Hamon.
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I don't watch Jojo, so I don't see why this makes it layered. They can see stands but not sense their presence. Presence sensing isn't the same thing as being able to outright see something invisible. In fact, wouldn't this actually disprove EP since they actively can't sense the presence of other stands?
Summary
Extrasensory Perception, also known as sensing, detection, or a sixth sense, is the ability to detect energy signatures, matter signatures, or the like near the user.If anything, it would fall under Enhanced Senses, under Enhanced Vision, under Soul Vision, wouldn't it?
I was going off the description on his profile where it talked about being the manifestation of vital energy, which screamed "Lifeforce". In either case, as long as the stand itself has life force, it should still be detectable.
Why is NPI layered?
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Because not even those that can effect souls, see ghosts and have ESP and can interact with the noncorporal supernatural can perceive or touch Stands? This shit is on the pages lad, that's why you read them, there should even be a Stand physiology page (though it's extremely basic atm, the updated version is in a sandbox but it's not up to par yet, but the basic info you can find on there at least still).
That's why it's layered, having NPI, ESP, etc isn't enough, you need that shit +1, able to see and all that what those who have it can't.
It would, if Stands weren't invisible to those who can see purgatory, ghosts and so on (and yes, they explicitly can't be seen by normal dudes, it isn't a verse where ghosts can be seen by everyone).
Yeah and it's wrong, they've been slowly being phased out for more accurate descriptions, it's just a slow process given there's like 80 profiles or something but it's being worked on, a handful like Josuke have already been fixed.
And never shown or stated, there might be evidence to suggest that Stand's don't really have what is life energy under JoJo's context as Stands like GE, even have abilities to manipulate life force, an ability doesn't have the same effect on Stands as it does on actual living things, and he can even sense life energy as well, same with someone like Abdul who actually goes as far to say his ability to sense things can sense life force, heat signatures and Stand energy denoting that Stand energy =/= Life Energy and they aren't the same, and Stands most certainly aren't Hamon bar literally one, thinking on it every time life force is actually brought up in JoJo, it's completely different than what a Stand is or comprised of, which is a spiritual energy and there has been lines stating Stands aren't even alive or living things so there is that, although idk why I'm thinking so hard on this, Stand's are Stand energy, they kinda say that dozens of times, I guess the fact that there's a clear disconnect between life force, psionic energy, demon shit, yokai's and more and what a Stand is just furthers they there own little thing.
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There's a decent amount of profiles to go through. I don't know which ones have non-stand users who have ESP and NPI.
Fair enough taken into account everything else you say after this. How would being turned into an object (Like a statue) affect the stand? Limited knowledge tells me if stands get hurt, it affects their user, so would I be safe in assuming the reverse? Again, having never read much of the series, I don't know how a stand was affected when/, if it's user, got turned into a non-living object.
If all else fails, I'm kinda seeing a stalemate here. Twilight transmutes but can't beat the stand itself, but the stand can't undo the transformation if it beats her, leaving Kakyoin technically dead on account of being an object.
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Case by case. There has been times a User gets transmutated or effected by an ability, effected by a hax, and so on, but the Stand is like aight cool and won't give a shit. And other times it effects both.
No, but yes, literally case by case, sometime it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It was a feature early on (like up to volume 3), but after that it's been more like "depends on the stand and what the ability/damage is".
It might just depend on the Stand or if it counts as "Death", opposed to "incap".
Like if you transmuted Jotaro for example into something, but Plat was manifested, and said transmutation wasn't death, he very well could still punch you in the dick still.
And important thing to remember is that "Stand Rules", in function, are more like "Stand suggestion's but only if you feel like it".
In regards to Kak or Stands he should be analog toward, I honestly can't say, there's examples of Stands being uneffected and effected, hard to say if it's a weakness on the abilities or a power of the abilities having dual NPI.
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Alright, then what about the stalemate option? Twilight kills/transmutes, gets beaten by the stand, and the stand wins but not Kakyoin? Is that an incon or a JJBA win still?
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Don't her transmutstion get's reversed after she is defeated?
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idk I didn't read the thread, nor am I arguing, I'm moreso just correcting info.
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I can't think of a single instance where magic effects were undone just because the user got defeated. Discord? The Elements had to send out a wave of energy to undo what he did. Returning everyone's magic? Had to be done manually. Defeating Tirek didn't make everything come back. King Sombra? Yet another wave of energy directly from the Elements of Harmony that did it. Defeating him didn't do anything.
Magical effects are pretty consistently not dependent on the person casting them being alive/conscious/not incapacitated to stay active.
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Here's a question, would she lead with a potentially fatal magic against an unassuming opponent like Kak who for all intents and purposes, is just a 10-A/9-C kid.
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Idk, this is a versus battle, so she'll obviously be trying to win, meaning she can't just sit there and do nothing. If anything, this makes transfiguration more likely as a first attack since it's less lethal. Sure, it's "technically" death, but it can be reversed with a counterspell. A hole being blasted in you? Not so much.
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Yeah but it's still in character, how does she usually try to incap? Or does she actually go for killing blows or various other things when in a fight of any kind? For example like Kak isn't gonna use HG to possess civs and take hostages in a match to force a foe into submission at the cost of innocents even though he CAN do that and actually DID do that when he was being influenced by Dio's mind control. Or for another example, Batman, even in a vs match, even though he could kill you a billions ways and it'd be so simple to do that, he even has death hax, he won't use it even if not doing it is ten times harder to win.
The_Legendary_Vin
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I think her usual go to is along the lines of talking or somethin
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Idk about killing blows since the opponents typically are too strong to be killed. If she thinks he's problematic her MO will likely be to turn him into a rodent. Either that or seal him in crystal, though the latter ability wasn't shown until much later. Basically either a KO through brute force or transfiguration.
She also isn't likely to hold back on him anyways. She's never encountered humans until after she became an alicorn, and if we're using her Unicorn form, she wouldn't know his capabilities, meaning she's less inclined to hold back.
She also isn't likely to hold back on him anyways. She's never encountered humans until after she became an alicorn, and if we're using her Unicorn form, she wouldn't know his capabilities, meaning she's less inclined to hold back.
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- Thread starter
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Bump this is the finale.
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Is my vote for kakyoin counted?
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never believe we never got a winner of this tourney...
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