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Episode 6: Return of the Mewtwo: Mirage Mewtwo vs Reinhard Heydrich

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@Azathoth

But I don't see how that makes much sense. The Mirage generators exist in the past so it would still be in M.M.'s range. The Mirage System has existed for years upon years.

@Requiem

Yes and Mirage Pokemon in general can use all Pokemon abilities that existed at the time. Also, the "in character" argument doesn't apply here. Unlike the real one, this Mewtwo has no character at all, its constantly blpodlusted and will attack with anything it wants or needs as shown when battling for Young. And maybe he didn't need to use hax because he was fighting opponents who were fodder for it in literally every area? Even combined, Ash May Misty and Oaks pokemon had 0 chance against it, they couldn't touch M.M. in any way. Reinhard is not fodder here and M.M. would clearly know that.
 
Mirage Mew doing that is MASSIVE PIS so no. And Mirage Mewtwo has the entire Mirage System within its being and its confirmed by Oak himself. So I don't even believe it needs to be in the systems range. But take that with a grain of salt.
 
Dude a few years is nothing, he goes back a few years and dies what to prevent reinhard from existing?

And I'm aware it can use the abilities of plenty of Pokemon, luke bullet seed aggron, but all? Including ones he didn't have info on prior to the start of the special? I'm gonna need a quote.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
@Azathoth
But I don't see how that makes much sense. The Mirage generators exist in the past so it would still be in M.M.'s range. The Mirage System has existed for years upon years.
Click to expand...
The Mirage System, in its current form, has only existed since the point Dr. Yung perfected it. Considering he's performing what amounts to a test on Ash and company, along with the fact he's nowhere near as old as someone like Oak, it's hard to believe the current Mirage system has been fully functional for more than several years.
 
It's really reliant on the Mirage System to exist, hence my timeline/Universal+ joke. Azzy is right. If it time travels to the past, it time paradoxes itself before anything. The system doesn't have range across time so yeah.
 
If a few yrs is enough then it won't stop M.M. from killing him in the past.

And yes all. Like said a thousand times, Young literally equired all existing pokemon data from every corner of the world to create this Mewtwo. Unless its a Gen 4 and beyond pokemon, there is NO pokemon data that M.M. doesnt have.
 
The Mirage System in question exists in the present. Any point in time which is too close wouldn't matter because Reinhard would be as strong as he is in the present or he simply wouldn't be close to the system.

And any point further in the past, Mirage Mewtwo would outright Time Paradox itself.

Time travelling is utterly moot point for him.
 
@Azathoth

Yes but there's no proof that Mirage Mewtwo is relient on only the most current model of the Mirage system. In fact, since it gains the entirity of the system itself within its being, why wouldnt older models apply to it?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
@Azathoth
Yes but there's no proof that Mirage Mewtwo is relient on only the most current model of the Mirage system. In fact, since it gains the entirity of the system itself within its being, why wouldnt older models apply to it?
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that's the entire reason it exists.

Also, no. It didn't absorb the physical system and generators into itself. It absorbed all data within the system. That does not negate it needing the projectors to physically exist.
 
Tho if it has Porygons powers then shouldnt it very well be able to exist the exact same way as Porygon as well?

Also, I vaguely remember this but i seem to recall Mirage Mew existing outside the range of the mirage system (which at first is just the castle) when watching Young and Misty do battle with each other.
 
Still, if im right on the second point then Mirage Mew doesnt need to stay in range of the system to exist, which is applying to M.M.

And theres still the matter of Porygons power to exist in the real world as data.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Also, I vaguely remember this but i seem to recall Mirage Mew existing outside the range of the mirage system (which at first is just the castle) when watching Young and Misty do battle with each other.
Click to expand...
Do you mean directly in front of the castle when he uses Mirage Aggron? Because that's clearly still part of the range.
 
It has the skills of the Pokemon's, not all their body conditions all at once (for example, it doesn't look like a sludge like say, a Muk). Furthermore like I said above, unless the system had range across time, Mewtwo would be way, way, waaaaaay too out of range for us to go assuming he doesn't need to.

He would be literally separated from the thing it needs to exist by the dimension of Time itself. It would be travelling to a point in time where the cause for the effect of its existence does not exist.
 
Do you mean directly in front of the castle when he uses Mirage Aggron? Because that's clearly still part of the range.

I believe so. I just rewatched the scene and Mirage Mew is sitting outside of the castle watching it and then flies further away when Pikachu notices it. The systems range at the time didn't even go beyond the castles walls.

Also another thing. If Young/Mirage Master is here with M.M. and the MS couldnt he just travel back with Mewtwo to expand his range?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Also another thing. If Young/Mirage Master is here with M.M. and the MS couldnt he just travel back with Mewtwo to expand his range?
Click to expand...
I mean, he'd need to physically bring the entire system.
 
1. If Young/Mirage Master was here this would be outside help.

2. And then I'd forget pretending LDO isn't here for the match and thus LDO murderizes Young along with breaking the Mirage System. Rusalka stops him via shadow, Spinne conceptually chokes him, Machina punches him Saitama style, Willhelm drains him, he is burned by Eleonore, etc, etc...
 
Fate, I'm pretty sure allowing trainers isn't outside help if the OP allows it anyway. I believe we've done that for Pokemon who can mega evolve but I can be wrong.
 
Mirage Mewtwo fights by itself and I'm pretty sure pokemon's used in matches are wild ones unless explicitly stated otherwise in the OP. And I'm pointing out again that Reinhard's LDO is here and would likely murderize the outside help before anything.
 
My petrification point was getting real far. And it disappeared with the wind, because points won't be dropped.

For the record, every time Mewtwo petrified someone, it was accidental. No telling if they go close quarters, their collision turns Reinhard into stone.
 
That's fair. Still, I'm pretty sure Mirage Mew showed to exist outside the systems range anyway. It's shown to fly beyond the castles walls perfectly fine, like outside the whole castle. At the time, the systems range didn't even go beyond the castles gates.

Also, for your other comment, M.M. can morph its body to take on the physiology of pokemon it has data on. It did that with Arcanine and Rayquaza for example.
 
...See, the thing is, it was never outside its range across time, that's for sure. Unless the Mirage System had Universal+ range, it wouldn't matter. It would still get a TP to itself out of time travel.

But you know, I'll let bygones be bygones since This doesn't seem to be going anywhere no matter what either way it was stablished way above in this discussion that Time-Travelling wouldn't kill Rein anyways. My vote stays the same, and goes for Reinhard.
 
Legit, that whole thing above just killed Mewtwo, as everyone who'll read through it will see what happened and whether or not Rein wins anyway, people will vote for the people who seem/are more right. Kinda dug is into a whole.
 
It's hard to explain.

Because Kukui kept on debating a point that should've been dropped, the more everyone else kept debunking, the more they seemed right. And they were going for Reinhard. So if any new voters come and see this, they'll see those posts and assume Reinhard's side is right, because they had the better points for longer.

TL;DR, it's a matter of quitting while you're ahead.
 
Well this is still better than janemba win via speed and hax...as regardless you are winning in debate or not an army of socks will ******* ruining the thread and say janemba win via speed and hax anyway..
 
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