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Elsword Discussion Thread

Not really confusing, just complicated. Nisha was using illusions to make Laby happy, making her delusional, but when Laby came in contact with the Henir Energy and had all the thing that happens on the last stage of her missions, her mind broke, and Nisha was afraid that Laby's body would break as well, which forced her to assume physical form and switch with Laby to make her happy and safe while she recovers.

Also, Nisha apparently cannot have a physical form the same time as Laby does, as in their HA, Nisha becomes a black silhoutte (Just like how she is as a mirror) when Laby comes out.
 
Also i guess that Nisha Labyrinth Job Path has a combination of Illusion Manipulation and Reality Warping since some of the illusions she makes for Laby are physical things, like in the Radiant Soul Job Path.
 
One thing about Bluhen, which is Ain's canon story path.

In this path, Ain stops being "powered" by Goddess Ishamel after his mission is complete and he starts to stop existing, but instead his existence is switched to being powered by Elria herself.

Would that by itself make any difference on his Tier? Herrscher is empowered by Henir, after all. Tho i don't think it is exactly the same case.
 
I have not read much about Laby, so I will not comment on her powers. Ain's alignment was changed from Ishmael to Elria because of Elsword, so that's an extra power for Elsword (but that only works when he's connected to the Great El) but that does not really influence Ain's powers, Herrscher case is not only aligned with Henir but also has full control over Henir Realm, so the most I can see is maybe an immortality type 8 or 9 to Bluhen.
 
Laby's powers are confuse even in-universe wise, as no one actually knows what her powers are. All we know really is that she comes from the Demon Realm and somewhere there Rosso felt an energy similar to her's, but her energy is different from other demons.

I don't think it was really "because of Elsword", he didn't force the alignment to be changed or anything, he just was why the alignment had to be changed since Ain would cease to exist otherwise.

His Alignment being changed was by Elria's own will, and it's said by Ain that for some reason Elria decided to intervene and switch his alignment from Ishamel to herself, and Ain then prays for her to keep looking for them. Elsword himself didn't really have anything directly to do with it.
 
Also, what would Flame Lord Elesis be? It is stated that she literally becomes the element fire itself, though i don't think that counts as "Abstract Existence". She also said to control the "Primordial Flames".
 
Tsubasa16 said:
For Herrscher, it is stated (I think by Denif) in one of the stories of Elrianode that Henir is also the very basis for the concept of extinction/death, and the very fact of being able to die is proof of Henir's influence. So Death Manipulation for Ain?

It is also stated that The Goddess Elria used Henir Energy to create the Material World, which i believe was said around the same as the one thing above. Would that give Ain "Creation" as well? Or would that be solely for Elria and Henir (the god)?
Click to expand...
Its not him actually, its Glaive.
 
Tsubasa16 said:
Also, what would Flame Lord Elesis be? It is stated that she literally becomes the element fire itself, though i don't think that counts as "Abstract Existence". She also said to control the "Primordial Flames".
Click to expand...
Nah it's not, she becomes fire because she mastering her techniques in unleashing fire related magic to the point she can regenerate after being burned. None saying she become something abstract like Herrcher do.
 
"The incarnation of fire, surrounding herself with primordial flames"

"As the incarnation of fire, she becomes fire itself"

"Once she unleashed all her potential, Elesis becomes fire itself "

Pretty sure it is pretty heavily emphatized that Elesis becomes the element fire itself, and not just "mastering her techniques", just like how Ain becomes the Void/Henir's realm itself on his 3rd Class.

But even then that really doesn't give her Abstract Existence since Fire is an element, not a concept or another abstract thing. That's why i asked what exactly that would make her be, if there is anything here that covers such thing at all.
 
She has at least type 8 immortality or a limited version of abstract existence. Maybe just non-corporeality.


Also... Now that you guys bring that up again, HErrscher and Apostasia should probably get some paradoxical powers and other things. Since Herrcher is Henir's power, he would "be" infinity itself but also nothingness. And this could even solidify his 2-A rating due to being "infinite" even in comparison to a 2-B. Also, Death Manipulation is now confirmed and probably some immortality negation by forcing "mortality" with Henir's Chaos/Extinction. Also, it should be noted that Henir's erasure works even on non-existent beings that are made ou of void (A majority of the monsters in Elrianoade and in the Labyrinth of Ruin)
 
i don't think Henir's energy was ever used to erase beings that are native from there, at least lore-wise, they are all mostly "killed/destroyed" but they are mostly fine within Henir's Realm, unlike the normal beings which i think is said that the El Party shouldn't stay there for too long or else they'd be erased. Unless of course you are counting the Game-Mechanics of being able to warm them using the Herrscher Path.

It should also be noted however that Henir's Chaos is an infinite source of energy, tho i think that makes part of the whole "symbolizing Infinity" thing.
 
Tsubasa16 said:
i don't think Henir's energy was ever used to erase beings that are native from there, at least lore-wise, they are all mostly "killed/destroyed" but they are mostly fine within Henir's Realm, unlike the normal beings which i think is said that the El Party shouldn't stay there for too long or else they'd be erased. Unless of course you are counting the Game-Mechanics of being able to warm them using the Herrscher Path.
Click to expand...
They only enter the fraction of inner world.

2314
 
I am not talking about Glave's Henir's Space and Time.

I am talking about the passage/portal they take to go to the Demon Realm on Elrianode, they go through Henir's realm in order to get to the Demon Realm, they going through a bit of Henir's realm being the first stage of Varnymir.

Though as Glave mentions, the passage they take to the Demon Realm also obviously isn't Henir's core, it's just a little inner part of Henir just like Henir's Space and Time, and even then, iirc it's said that if the El Search Group stayed there for too long, they'd be erased or something similar
 
Elesis (Flame Lord) should have only elemental intangibility, her descriptions are not enough for type 8 immortality or abstract existence.

As for Ain being able to erase other beings from Henir, I think he has no problem with that, he is far above them in every way.
 
Btw there is something i need to ask, who gonna make the profiles aside Kaze? Seeing Kaze has so much problems on IRL its time to help him to make the profiles, so that he doesn't need to carry everything on his shoulders if we help him.

The format is gonna same with Ainchase Ishmael (Herrscher Path), One Path One Profiles.

@Tagegumi

So MHS+?
 
I would try to make some profiles but i am not exactly sure of the things that should be put on the Tiers and AP, only mostly abilities the character have in general.

For example, Nisha's Hyper Active, Kaledoscope, states that she creates a perfect world for Laby, what exactly would that mean to her AP? Would that make her Low 2-C?

Also, i assume Nisha would be an Abstract Existence (Type 1 or 2) since she is literally Laby's sadness and sorrow taken form.
 
Actually, Laby and Nisha are two parts of the same soul. If one is manifested, the other is an imaginary being/abstract being and so on. And... Nisha just makes illusions to make Laby happy. She would scale to the rest of the cast, tho
 
"Actually, Laby and Nisha are two parts of the same soul. If one is manifested, the other is an imaginary being/abstract being and so on."

They aren't really two parts of the same soul tho, Nisha is the separated emotions of sadness from Laby. It's specfically said that Nisha is Laby's sadness and sorrow taken form (as a mirror), she is part of Laby but eventually became her own being, they aren't exactly "two parts of the same soul".

The thing about them not being able to physically have a form at the same time is true tho, at least in Nisha's case since she becomes a black silhouette on her Hyper Active when Laby appears.

"Nisha just makes illusions to make Laby happy. She would scale to the rest of the cast, tho"

Actually most of Nisha's "illusions" are physical and tangible (aka Real), her power is more like Reality Warping and Imagination Manifestation than only Illusions, and that is shown mostly in the Radiant Soul Path.

In it most of her abilities are about bringing Laby's imagination into reality, like bringing Laby's imaginary friend into being and such.

Nisha Labyrinth also brings Laby's memories into being which is most of her abilities.

The "Problem" is that Nisha's illusions for Laby, even tho they are real, are not the true "reality". For example, Nisha creating a Laby's friend won't change that fact that the true "Laby's friend" is dead, that's why they are only "illusions".
 
If he was using sandboxes, couldn't we catch them and use them to continue from their use? If not, annotations he made about the characters?

Also, intangibility has no business being on Elesis if anyone planned to add that. There's literally no proof anywhere beyond the possible implication of her becoming literal flames, which as far as I know is not showcased in any of he skills nor any of her story. "Becoming flame itself" sounds more metaphorical than literal.
 
I dunno about Intangibility, but It's stated multiple times that she became the "incarnation of fire, becoming fire itself", the "incarnation" part makes it seem more literal than metaphorical.

If anything i think she'd be Abstract Existence Type 3, or at least an Elemental Version of that.
 
Many metaphorical lines sounds just like that. The problem is that it doesn't have much fundament at all, at the very least Ain in the Henir path has statements from his story, from skills and other stuff. His final skill even shows us his true form, while Elesis has nothing similar (unless I missed something).

Intangibility and something as far as Abstract Existence is far too much for a singular line without any other context. It'd be something to discuss in a CRT if you really think it is possible.
 
I agree with logia type intangibility, but Abstract Existence is just impossible. Btw, i can help with any stat for any character, but i have no experience creating profiles.
 
Like i said, i think she would have some form of "Elemental Existence" instead of an actual Abstract Existence, since i am pretty sure embodying an Element is not the thing as embodying an Abstract thing/Concept, but we don't really have that kind of power anyway.
 
It would still require an actual CRT and, as I said, actual proof. Words like that being used metaphorically is actually rather common, just like the "Shaking World's Foundations" kind of line. Its not a literal tremor worldwide, it refers to something so great it can affect society as a whole or change it.
 
Have limited time here so here we go.

Kaze just made Mad Paradox in sandbox but not finished until now.

About Elesis being flame, if its not intangtibility then what is this? Or you just hate Elesis
 
A statement about her becoming like fire itself due to her massive proficiency of it? She can pull it off her entire body and it's not even harmed by any of it, so it fits. She's not Mad Paradox, who directly states he links himself with the essence of space time and we can see in his art his body is breaking up at the legs and shoulders. Herrscher quite directly references his body being ephemeral, throwing it away and yadda yadda, plus his art also making it quite obvious. Yet Flame Lord looks entirely physical as normal with nothing changing, no fluctuating form made out of pure fire, nothing in any of her new combos, nor in literally any of her skills.

Farthest I saw was her summoning her sword from flames, implying maybe it's made of pure energy but... wouldn't imply becoming flames.
 
Going by the Flame Lord's Story, it's said that she grew more used to using fire, but she noticed that just this wasn't her true potential, so she wanted to go beyond just "containing flames" within her body, stating that if she failed and lost control of the flames during it, she could be be turned to ashes, but it is a risk she had to take to achieve her full potential.

And once she achieves her full potential, she ascends to become the very incarnation of fire, becoming fire itself.

Honestly the story makes it much more likely that she became the element Fire, since apparently literally becoming fire itself was Elesis's true potential, which the story makes clear.

Also she kinda does have a "Elemental Form" which is her awakening.

I think the fact that we don't see it much in-game is simply the fact that the 3rd Job classes are too limited to show more of that stuff since they only have one skill essentially.
 
No, she didn't want to go beyond containing her flames, but that she thought that to unlock more of her power she would need to change how she did it and not just release more power.

Which still doesn't dispel the idea that it sounds metaphorical. Here we have someone spelling fire from every pore of her body as easy as you and I breath, unharmed by it all at the same time and commanding the flames seemlessly. You don't need to take incarnation of flames to its literal extreme for it to make sense.

Even blazing heart before she became one was described to Elesis as "having a body made of flames" which is obviously not the case. Even the trivia from the wiki seems to agree only Mad Paradox and Herrscher don't possess a physical body.
 
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