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Elden Ring General Discussion

Thiag125 said:
I thought the greater will abandoned the lands between long before the shattering?
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We're never told when it abandoned Metyr and the timeline given for Elden Ring could allow for hundreds to thousands of years of absence before the game as stated by GRRM.

ArkhamDC06 said:
Metyr's whole deal is that she was never able to contact the GW and that was before Marika founded the Order and thus long before the Shattering
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Metyr's deal is that she was in contact with the Greater Will and even came on the same comment as the Elden Beast. The thing is that at some point Metyr was wounded and lost her connection to the GW and she's been searching for it ever sense. It could be much earlier than Marika or it could be during her reign. We know that whenever the Nox were sunk underground is probably when it happened, as that is likely who the Fingerslayer Blade was used on the the cardinal sin that was committed.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Metyr's deal is that she was in contact with the Greater Will and even came on the same comment as the Elden Beast. The thing is that at some point Metyr was wounded and lost her connection to the GW and she's been searching for it ever sense. It could be much earlier than Marika or it could be during her reign. We know that whenever the Nox were sunk underground is probably when it happened, as that is likely who the Fingerslayer Blade was used on the the cardinal sin that was committed.
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Metyr was around before the Elden Beast actually, and tbh in my opinion it's pretty up in the air whether or not the Nox were actually able to test the fingerslayer blade, especially on Metyr.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I wonder if you could calc it? Though thinking about it, I'm not sure how you would.
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By the way, I tried calcing Astel sinking the Eternal Cities and got 7-B+. If we assumed he vaporized the ground like the Fallingstar Beasts though, it would be High 7-A+

Edit, actually, if you include the ENTIRE underground (and not just walkable area), the numbers go up to 7-A+ for pulv and 6-C+ for vape
 
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Meh I've always had the feeling Metyr lost contact almost immediately upon landing but maybe that's just me
 
BonefireVN released a clear video of all the sky cuts from Heolstor.
Chritin said:
Metyr was around before the Elden Beast actually
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I took it as that they both arrived together as the Elden Beast rode atop the meteor that was Metyr
This legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree.

Creates a stream of golden shooting stars that assail the area.

It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.
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Remembrance of Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, hewn into the Scadutree.

The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes.

The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between.
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Chritin said:
not the Nox were actually able to test the fingerslayer blade, especially on Metyr.
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Imo there's evidence that points towards it. First, you have the Staff of the Great Beyond:
Staff fashioned from the tail-fingers of Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, and the microcosm raised aloft over the crux they form.

Catalyst for casting both sorceries and incantations.

The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.
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Then you have the Ringed Finger which was noted as being from the ancestor of all Fingercreepers and has a legacy of blasphemy:
Bludgeon made of an enormous finger sheathed in several heavy rings. Thought to have been cut from an ancestor of the Fingercreeper.

Some life yet remains in this legacy of an ancient act of blasphemy, as evidenced by the barely perceptible warmth it still exudes.
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Finally the Fingerslayer Blade itself:
The hidden treasure of the Eternal City of Nokron; a blade said to have been born of a corpse.

This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall.

Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals.
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How I read it is the following:
  • The Nox find out about Metyr and the origins of the Golden Order/Elden Ring
  • The Nox construct the Fingerslayer Blade to use against the Fingers in their act of rebellion
  • Meytr is cut/crippled from a Nox attack and afterwards is left broken from the event
Either from that attack or from the GW abandoning TLB because of the Shattering, Metyr could no longer communicate with it.

Though having said that, I will admit it's not bulletproof. The fact that Marika went to investigate the origins of the Golden Order:
I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order.

Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?
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Suggests that she found something was wrong with the fundamentals of order. Her making Hewg learn how to craft a god-slaying weapon, presumably to explicitly destroy her, Radagon, the Elden Beast or Metyr would also imply that by the events leading to the Shattering she had realized that Metyr was tricking her, which wouldn't make sense if the Nox thing was a (relatively) recent event from her perspective.

Additionally, Radagon sealing the Erdtree was something so shocking that the Fingers recoiled in shock and started to communicate with Metyr. So she wasn't expecting Radagon to enact that tactic canonically. Which means that both Vyke and Bernahl never told the Round Table that the Erdtree was barred to outsiders and still went to the Forge of Giants, making me think they also realized something was weird with the Fingers.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I took it as that they both arrived together as the Elden Beast rode atop the meteor that was Metyr
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I think its pretty implied that the Golden Star that was the Elden Beast was different from the first shooting star that Metyr arrived on. Idk, I just think they would've said the Elden Beast also arrived on the first star rather than just saying it showed up a long time ago.

That other stuff seems fair though
 
Chritin said:
Also, here's this now lol
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If the total area end is accepted, I think we're looking at the following:
  • Field Bosses: 8-B, likely 7-C
  • Goddrick and Rennala's Shadow: 8-A, likely High 7-C
  • Rot Radahn: 7A, possibly High 4-C
  • Astel: 7A+, likely 6C+, possibly High 4-C
  • Malenia + Angel Mohg + SOTE Bosses: At least 7A+, likely 6C+, possibly High 4-C
  • God(s): High 6-B, likely 4-A
The hard part is determining where the Astel scaling kicks in. Using the general area scaling, the following zones fall between Radahn and Astel:
  • Caelid South (Radahn)
  • Altus Plateau
  • Nokron, Eternal City
  • Siofra Aqueduct
  • Deeproot Depths
  • Capital Outskirts
  • Mt Gelmir
  • Lake of Rot (Astel)
  • Dragonbarrow
  • Leyndell, Royal Capital
So any boss intended to be fought in Dragonbarrow or Leyndell, like the Godskins or Morgott should scale in my mind.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If the total area end is accepted, I think we're looking at the following:
  • Field Bosses: 8-B, likely 7-C
  • Goddrick and Rennala's Shadow: 8-A, likely High 7-C
  • Rot Radahn: 7A, possibly High 4-C
  • Astel: 7A+, likely 6C+, possibly High 4-C
  • Malenia + Angel Mohg + SOTE Bosses: At least 7A+, likely 6C+, possibly High 4-C
  • God(s): High 6-B, likely 4-A
The hard part is determining where the Astel scaling kicks in. Using the general area scaling, the following zones fall between Radahn and Astel:
  • Caelid South (Radahn)
  • Altus Plateau
  • Nokron, Eternal City
  • Siofra Aqueduct
  • Deeproot Depths
  • Capital Outskirts
  • Mt Gelmir
  • Lake of Rot (Astel)
  • Dragonbarrow
  • Leyndell, Royal Capital
So any boss intended to be fought in Dragonbarrow or Leyndell, like the Godskins or Morgott should scale in my mind.
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This might be a bit of a hot take, but I'd honestly consider Radahn being above Astel? I'm not fully sold on it, but considering how he was able to stop all kinds of fallingstars from coming to the lands between, idk it kinda makes sense to me. Like, at least maybe pre-rot Radahn, especially if we are gonna say Malenia and Mohg are that strong.
 
Chritin said:
Like, at least maybe pre-rot Radahn, especially if we are gonna say Malenia and Mohg are that strong.
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My assumption is that we have the following Radahn's:
  • Rot Radahn that we fight in Caelid
  • Prime Radahn that we fight in SOTE that scales to Malenia / Astel
  • Radahn being boosted by Miquella
The Radahn would scale to Astel in his second key
 
Qawsedf234 said:
My assumption is that we have the following Radahn's:
  • Rot Radahn that we fight in Caelid
  • Prime Radahn that we fight in SOTE that scales to Malenia / Astel
  • Radahn being boosted by Miquella
The Radahn would scale to Astel in his second key
Click to expand...
I like that, although there is a significant difference between SotE Radahn and Prime Radahn, mainly his size and the fact SotE Radahn has bloodflame hax
 
Chritin said:
This might be a bit of a hot take, but I'd honestly consider Radahn being above Astel? I'm not fully sold on it, but considering how he was able to stop all kinds of fallingstars from coming to the lands between, idk it kinda makes sense to me. Like, at least maybe pre-rot Radahn, especially if we are gonna say Malenia and Mohg are that strong.
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Same, always interpreted Radahn as stronger than Astel.
 
Regarding the Low 2-C ED, would the Elden Ring not be comparable to that or above it? Could we reason a rating for similar levels of ED for the main Ring itself?

Also, is there literally any good speed feats from Nightreign?
 
Haven’t gotten through much of nightreign cause I’m waiting on my two other friends to get it but does anyone know if there’s any lore on the og bosses/demigods and what happened to them in nightreigns timeline?
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Haven’t gotten through much of nightreign cause I’m waiting on my two other friends to get it but does anyone know if there’s any lore on the og bosses/demigods and what happened to them in nightreigns timeline?
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We only see two shardbearers, those being Morgott and Godrick. While we aren't told what exactly happened to them, we do know is that after the shattering, the Night consumed the lands between and destroyed the Erdtree in its wake. Later, Morgott was consumed himself, but still stands guard of the Lands Between, and is under some sort of belief that the Nightfarers are there to pillage it.

TL;DR, they both just went mad and fight for the Nightlord while under the Night's control.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah. But afaik we already scale the Elden Ring's hax and stuff to Tier 2.
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that elden ring do be putting in the work not gonna lie (we still really should scale most people with that elden ring level of power ((god tiers) at that level anyway but hey you didn't hear it from me))
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Haven’t gotten through much of nightreign cause I’m waiting on my two other friends to get it but does anyone know if there’s any lore on the og bosses/demigods and what happened to them in nightreigns timeline?
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I've finished the game and all its content and as far as I can see only morgot really.
 
Chritin said:
We only see two shardbearers, those being Morgott and Godrick. While we aren't told what exactly happened to them, we do know is that after the shattering, the Night consumed the lands between and destroyed the Erdtree in its wake. Later, Morgott was consumed himself, but still stands guard of the Lands Between, and is under some sort of belief that the Nightfarers are there to pillage it.

TL;DR, they both just went mad and fight for the Nightlord while under the Night's control.
Click to expand...
dono about the grafted monarch being godrick since ya know..... godfroy exists.
 
Godefroy is arguably more pathetic than Godrick

At least Godrick lost to the Tarnished and Malenia, two high-tier characters in the verse

Godefroy was defeated by a Single Regular Leyndell Knight
 
IAmNotBread said:
Kristoff is goated, but still.
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I mean he was clearly doing something right since he was a regular dude who beat a Demigod in fair combat and is considered on par with frigging Tiche (Arguably the strongest Black Knife Assassin), Finlay (The crackhead who fought her way from Caelid to the Haligtree while carrying Malenia the entire time) and the Mimic Tier (An artificial being with the potential to become the Elden Lord).
 
I would rather have my loss record consist of one of the strongest demigods in history and one of the strongest people in history, instead of just kristoff.

Either way Godrick and Godefroy are both just, pretty damn weak, Its like if Homelander was in the Invincible Universe.
 
IAmNotBread said:
Godefroy is arguably more pathetic than Godrick

At least Godrick lost to the Tarnished and Malenia, two high-tier characters in the verse
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The Tarnished at that point was utterly weak so while it's "impressive" for them because back then, they were nothing, for Godrick it's just laughably embarassing. As for Malenia, this wasn't even a fight. This was the equivalent of a little annoying cousin bragging about how better he is than you at your favorite game and putting him in his place without any effort whatsoever. There's honor and worth in losing after holding your own, there's none of that in being trounced so badly your opponent, to whom you are not even worthy of being called a nuisance, only spares you because you begs like a pathetic coward and she thinks you don't even deserve to dirty her clothes with your blood. It's not being acknowledged as worthy enough of an opponent that you made a demigoddess and master fighter put in genuine efforts, it's being acknowledged as being so weak a cockroach would have been more fearesome as an enemy.

So basically, Godrick's record is being destroyed by a barely arrived Tarnished (who at this point is just as random as the hundreds he killed so really nothing exceptional) and being trashed by yes the strongest demigod but who only noticed him because he wouldn't stop being annoying, otherwise he wouldn't even register on her radar.

Meanwhile, Godefroy was badass enough that he was stopped near Leyndell where even the most random guard hits harder than Godrick. And his defeat was impressive enough that it granted Kristoff the honor of an Erdtree Burial. Whereas Godrick was so pathetic defeating him gets no fanfare whatsoever and is treated as "Oh you defeated him? Ok. Just remember he was like the trash of trash, defeating him is just proof you're not total garbage, plus it's basically a rite of passage to go through him, it's like mandatory. So congratulations I guess, you're on the level of a random peasant who knows how to wield a knife by real fighter standards. You may now proceed to face real enemies. Like plants or goats."

Even the sword monument recalling how Godrick was trashed doesn't describe it as an accomplishment of Malenia's prowess, it's treated as a fact and describes how Godrick begged so it's more about mocking him. I mean, the very fact that a random guard defeating a demigod is treated as more impressive than a demigoddess defeating another one should tell you enough about how unimpressive Godrick is.
IAmNotBread said:
Godefroy was defeated by a Single Regular Leyndell Knight
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Do NOT desecrate the memory of Kristoff, one of the best Legendary Ashes! By Marika's t***, his honor shall be defended!
 
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Honestly i feel like a lot of bosses are only scaled to what they are for gameplay purposes rather than lore reasons, 'cause there is no way Godefroy is stronger than Morgott(Godefroy has 12k HP meanwhile Morgott has 10K), or Radahn being weaker than the Regal Ancestor Spirit because we need to beat him to access the area where you fight it, or the deathrite bird or Ulcerated Tree Spirit in the mountaintops being stronger than Morgott becaus we fight it after Morgott
 
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IAmNotBread said:
Honestly i feel like a lot of bosses are only scaled to what they are for gameplay purposes rather than lore reasons, 'cause there is no way Godefroy is stronger than Morgott(Godefroy has 12k HP meanwhile Morgott has 10K), or Radahn being weaker than the Regal Ancestor Spirit because we need to beat him to access the area where you fight it, or the deathrite bird or Ulcerated Tree Spirit in the mountaintops being stronger than Morgott becaus we fight it after Morgott
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I get where you're coming from but some of these guys are literally featless aside from "They fought the Tarnished at so and so point in the game".
 
IAmNotBread said:
Honestly i feel like a lot of bosses are only scaled to what they are for gameplay purposes rather than lore reasons, 'cause there is no way Godefroy is stronger than Morgott(Godefroy has 12k HP meanwhile Morgott has 10K), or Radahn being weaker than the Regal Ancestor Spirit because we need to beat him to access the area where you fight it, or the deathrite bird or Ulcerated Tree Spirit in the mountaintops being stronger than Morgott becaus we fight it after Morgott
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There are some bosses where it's like that, but honestly for most bosses is actually makes sense. The two bosses we are expected to beat to get into Leyndell are the weakest demigod and a woman so physically and psychologically broken she needs her daughter to empower her.

It's always tricky when it comes to basic enemies I'll admit, but it is a case by case basis.
 
Also, I'm on the lookout for a PDF version of the full twilight guide. There were clean, full body images of all the nightfarers except revenant released, but I think in the full version there is one.

Nevermind, Revenant might not be in ther, but I still really need her render.
 
Thiag125 said:
So individually the nightfarers are all weaker than the tarnished right?
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Elden Lord Tarnished when Iron Eye tries to hit him with his strongest arrow that's even faster than sound
iu
 
Would we say Heolstor is stronger than Elden Beast? Executors remembrance says the erdtree is no more, and i feel like the Elden Beast wouldve tried to do something if that happened
 
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