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Earthbound: General Revisions
- Thread starter Chrisras
- Start date
- Status
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I've removed the universal dura and added the "can harm intangible beings"
@Chrisras
Can you add the limited immortality?
@Chrisras
Can you add the limited immortality?
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Wasn't agreed that Giegue should be downgraded?
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| 1. Giygas/Giegue's profile puts him at Planet level during the events of EBB because he is "Capable of altering the entire earth with his presence alone, even while holding back". This isn't true. We only know that he warped "America", not the entire planet (and it's EBB's version of America which has a different geography and size than in the real world). Not only that but the warping mainly consisted of things like animating inanimate objects, mind manipulation, resurrecting the dead and other kinds of reality warping. So he didn't exactly warp the entire place like a quantifiable AP feat. | ||
~ Or something like that |
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- Thread starter
- #48
Well, there is a quote in the game that states that Guiege invasion was a threat to Earth, and that he stated that he was gonna kill every human after he ended the battle with Ninten, but that is more like a range thing more than anything else.
Also, this would also downgrade Maria aswell.
Talking about changing Giygas/Guiege page, his ship speed should be changed, it is stated that Guiege's planet is at "the end of the Universe", and traveling from there to Earth is definetly faster than just FTL.
Also, this would also downgrade Maria aswell.
Talking about changing Giygas/Guiege page, his ship speed should be changed, it is stated that Guiege's planet is at "the end of the Universe", and traveling from there to Earth is definetly faster than just FTL.
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I heard that even if you travel the universe in 500 years you still are MFTL+, so well...
Maria should be downgraded too.
A tier 7 (Maybe 8) can kill every human in the earth.
Maria should be downgraded too.
A tier 7 (Maybe 8) can kill every human in the earth.
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His reality manipulation was mainly consisted of things like animating inanimate objects, mind manipulation, resurrecting the dead and other kinds of reality warping. So he didn't exactly warp the entire place like a quantifiable AP feat.
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- Thread starter
- #53
No, we're talking about Mother 1 Giygas, wich is known as "Guiege", who is a weaker form of Giygas, the Low-2C Giygas is from Mother 2/EarthBound, where is specifically stated that he gain more power than before.
Pretty much, his 5B rating should be change due to lacking enough information about him being actually planet level.
Pretty much, his 5B rating should be change due to lacking enough information about him being actually planet level.
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And even if it was quantifiable, it would only be Multi-Continental...
@Chrisras
So what tier should he be?
At least 7-C, likely Far Higher or Unknow
@Chrisras
So what tier should he be?
At least 7-C, likely Far Higher or Unknow
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- Thread starter
- #55
At least 7-C, Likely Far higher is the better option
Even at the beginning, his presence was capable of creating black clouds that can cover an entire town, even at kilometers of distance, and he's also responsible for the clouds that cover Mt.Itoi, so the Town level seems out of the question. The far higher could be justified for the many instances were his despicted as a treath to Earth, his hability to transform objects and manipulate people across the country, and his statement about how he was gonna kill all humans after the battle with Ninten ended.
Even at the beginning, his presence was capable of creating black clouds that can cover an entire town, even at kilometers of distance, and he's also responsible for the clouds that cover Mt.Itoi, so the Town level seems out of the question. The far higher could be justified for the many instances were his despicted as a treath to Earth, his hability to transform objects and manipulate people across the country, and his statement about how he was gonna kill all humans after the battle with Ninten ended.
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Also isn't he stronger than Ninten?
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- Thread starter
- #57
Kinda obvious, since neither Ninten or anyone for that matter was even capable of scratching Guiege, even at their full potential.
Also, is there a problem if I change the title of the thread for EarthBound revisions? It seems that the original revisions where already answered, and I still have some more propositions for MOTHER profiles.
Also, is there a problem if I change the title of the thread for EarthBound revisions? It seems that the original revisions where already answered, and I still have some more propositions for MOTHER profiles.
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I'm extremely late to the party but I wondering maybe Giegue would be at least City Level scaling to Maria in which her Magicant had an array of mountains in the back crossing about 5 kilometers.Also to bring attention to more calcs that weren't implemented:
Buzz Buzz and Starman's Large Building Level.
Ness's Magicant Large Star Level
Buzz Buzz and Starman's Large Building Level.
Ness's Magicant Large Star Level
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Buzz Buzz is likely gonna be added to a Early-game Ness key
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Do either Buzz Buzz and Starman have profiles?
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No, but Arbitrary said he likely was gonna add keys for Early/Mid-game Ness and that Buzz Buzz calc would be applied to Mid-game Ness
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Would it be okay if i made profiles for them?
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It would be fine
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@Chrisras Kk. I'll wait for you to finish.
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- Thread starter
- #68
Oh boi, here it goes:
Abilities:
-People like Jeff or Duster should add the habilities that their items gave them, like for example, Jeff should have Life Stealing with the Hungry HP-sucker, and Duster Statistics amplification/Reduction with his Items.
-Ness could have Astral Projection (I think this is the corresponding abilitie) since after he ate the cake in Summers, he was capable of seeing exactly everything that was happening with Poo, even when he was at the other side of the planet.
-The creation of Magicant could also grant Ness some powers, like Spatial Manipulation, Reality Warping, or even Matter Manipulation if we consider the fact that even after absorbing it, he still had the Magicant Bat in the real world, wich was created in Magicant. (While Magicant is the representation of One's mind, and that it is found in One's consciousness, that doesn't take the fact that Ness still created it, not imagine it, just becuse is found in his mind, that doesn't mean is not real)
-Giygas should have Spatial Manipulation and Attack Reflection(probably for his base form, since in this form all the attacks trown by the kids at him get reflected back at them), since is specifically stated that the battle against his Low-2C form was taking place in another dimension. He should also have OHKO since he can use a stronger variation of PK Flash.
-Ness should have Attack Reflection aswell, since PK Shield ß reflects back 50% of the damage taken back at the enemy
-Giygas could potentially have Existence Erasure, since it stated by Porky that he would eventually "eat the kids" and destroy everything in that dimension and the Regular Universe. Considering that the only thing that permited the Kids to come back to their Regular Time was their spirits, and the fact that if it wasn't for the players help, the kids would have eventually lose, is not very crazy to state that if the battle would have prolonged, the kids would have been completely destroyed by Giygas, both in the Physical and Spiritual way.
Resistances:
-I think that most profiles should add some resistances for the items that the Kids can equip, like for example, the Frankling Badge should grand resistance to Lighting manipulation, since all lighting attacks get redirected to the caster of the attack. Also, there are the Bands and the Bracelets, that grant resistance to Lighting, Fire, Ice, Mind manipulation and even to OHKO attacks. Since altmost anyone of the games can equipp this items, this should apply to everybody.
-The kids from EarthBound / MOTHER 2 should have resistance to Spatial Manipulation, since even with Giygas twists and turns of the dimension they we're battleing, and even in the moment where he created it, they we're just fine (Still getting destroyed tho)
-I don't know if they should have Time resistance, since even after fighting a reality warping monster in the past and surviving his changes trough time, they apparently come back to the future with no apparent change in the universe. (That, and surviving in his dimension)
-Both versions of Giygas should have Resistance to Mind Manipulation, since neither of them gets affected by Ninten's or Ness's Mind Attacks. (This would include being unnafected by Statistic Amplification or Decrease, and even Power Nullification)
Equipment:
-As stated above, the items like The pendants, Band and Bracelets should be included in everyones profiles.
-The important items for the user, like Jeff's inventions and Duster's tools should be specified alongside their Power and Abilities (Ej: Statistics Amplification (Defense spray) for Jeff, or Sound Manipulation (Siren Beetle) for Duster.
-Altmost anyone from Mother 3 should have OHKO, Explosion Manipulation, statistic amplification or Shield killing via items, since anyone can use them. (I'll explain the items later)
-Lucas should have Self-Resurrection with Magypsis Memento. (Up to 7 times)
-The "instant pills" should also be added, since they are kinda like temportal drugs that boost the users stats during the fight.
-Many items that can affect enemies completly, like the Viper or A Super Plush Bear could be added to the main party eqquipment, and even in their Power and Abilities.
Oh boi, there goes at least the one's that I think have enough fundaments to be added to the profiles, but now I want to discuss some stuff that could potentially be game changing for the series/verse.
Abilities:
-People like Jeff or Duster should add the habilities that their items gave them, like for example, Jeff should have Life Stealing with the Hungry HP-sucker, and Duster Statistics amplification/Reduction with his Items.
-Ness could have Astral Projection (I think this is the corresponding abilitie) since after he ate the cake in Summers, he was capable of seeing exactly everything that was happening with Poo, even when he was at the other side of the planet.
-The creation of Magicant could also grant Ness some powers, like Spatial Manipulation, Reality Warping, or even Matter Manipulation if we consider the fact that even after absorbing it, he still had the Magicant Bat in the real world, wich was created in Magicant. (While Magicant is the representation of One's mind, and that it is found in One's consciousness, that doesn't take the fact that Ness still created it, not imagine it, just becuse is found in his mind, that doesn't mean is not real)
-Giygas should have Spatial Manipulation and Attack Reflection(probably for his base form, since in this form all the attacks trown by the kids at him get reflected back at them), since is specifically stated that the battle against his Low-2C form was taking place in another dimension. He should also have OHKO since he can use a stronger variation of PK Flash.
-Ness should have Attack Reflection aswell, since PK Shield ß reflects back 50% of the damage taken back at the enemy
-Giygas could potentially have Existence Erasure, since it stated by Porky that he would eventually "eat the kids" and destroy everything in that dimension and the Regular Universe. Considering that the only thing that permited the Kids to come back to their Regular Time was their spirits, and the fact that if it wasn't for the players help, the kids would have eventually lose, is not very crazy to state that if the battle would have prolonged, the kids would have been completely destroyed by Giygas, both in the Physical and Spiritual way.
Resistances:
-I think that most profiles should add some resistances for the items that the Kids can equip, like for example, the Frankling Badge should grand resistance to Lighting manipulation, since all lighting attacks get redirected to the caster of the attack. Also, there are the Bands and the Bracelets, that grant resistance to Lighting, Fire, Ice, Mind manipulation and even to OHKO attacks. Since altmost anyone of the games can equipp this items, this should apply to everybody.
-The kids from EarthBound / MOTHER 2 should have resistance to Spatial Manipulation, since even with Giygas twists and turns of the dimension they we're battleing, and even in the moment where he created it, they we're just fine (Still getting destroyed tho)
-I don't know if they should have Time resistance, since even after fighting a reality warping monster in the past and surviving his changes trough time, they apparently come back to the future with no apparent change in the universe. (That, and surviving in his dimension)
-Both versions of Giygas should have Resistance to Mind Manipulation, since neither of them gets affected by Ninten's or Ness's Mind Attacks. (This would include being unnafected by Statistic Amplification or Decrease, and even Power Nullification)
Equipment:
-As stated above, the items like The pendants, Band and Bracelets should be included in everyones profiles.
-The important items for the user, like Jeff's inventions and Duster's tools should be specified alongside their Power and Abilities (Ej: Statistics Amplification (Defense spray) for Jeff, or Sound Manipulation (Siren Beetle) for Duster.
-Altmost anyone from Mother 3 should have OHKO, Explosion Manipulation, statistic amplification or Shield killing via items, since anyone can use them. (I'll explain the items later)
-Lucas should have Self-Resurrection with Magypsis Memento. (Up to 7 times)
-The "instant pills" should also be added, since they are kinda like temportal drugs that boost the users stats during the fight.
-Many items that can affect enemies completly, like the Viper or A Super Plush Bear could be added to the main party eqquipment, and even in their Power and Abilities.
Oh boi, there goes at least the one's that I think have enough fundaments to be added to the profiles, but now I want to discuss some stuff that could potentially be game changing for the series/verse.
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I am ok with everything
But the resistance to Time Manipulation wouldn't be something like Time Paradox Immunity?
But the resistance to Time Manipulation wouldn't be something like Time Paradox Immunity?
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Also the memento can revive anyone at Lucas party, not only him
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- Thread starter
- #72
Okay, 2 part of the discussion, here it goes:
Discussions:
Well, in this part I want to discuss some situations in the game that can be interpreted in some ways to change or upgrade the characters in the verse. So here we go:
-During one part in the game, we can see the kids sailing into the Ocean, where we can see volcanoes, and islands. During this part in the game, we can see the first appareance of the Kraken, who shows that is not that little compared to the kids. While ist pretty obvious that the scaling in EarthBound is horrible due to how small the art style remarks the building, trees, vehicles, etc, that doesn't mean that the game doesn't specified what are in fact, actual real objects and how it can be compared. Obviously the game makes most objects small due to sprite limitation, but when it comes to showing something big or spacious, the game tries to show how the objects are, in fact, pretty big and similar to the real world.
With that Mumbo Jumbo out of the way, we can now said that the volcanoes in EarthBound can still be considered Real volcanoes in the way in how they are despicted, since we can see that they are shown to be kinda of skinnie, and tall, due to clouds being form in the top of the volcanoe. This seems to be a Composite Type Volcanoe, since the tall top and the crater in it. This Volcanoes can range from 4.000 m to even 8.000 m, so even at his minimum, the range from this can be pretty big, and since the kraken is despicted as the size of these volcanoes in the picture, this could mean that the Kids can fight extremely big Moster very early in the Mid-Game. (While there's a stronger version of the Kraken that is smaller than this one, there should also be remarkable that these Krakens can vary in size, since in Ness's Magicant, these Krakens can be the exact same size at him, so it should still be considered.) It should also be notice that only when the Kraken appears its changes the lighting of the entire sceneario, turning the Suny day into a Dark tone, wich would suggest that the Krakens presence can change the climate/create dark clouds to cover the scenario (Or it could only be for dramatic effect, but since nowhere else in the game this is repeated for some kinda of scene, and the game really shows when theres a change in climate or in the day, I think that the Kraken changing the climate could be more appropiate, and since it change the ambience of the entire Island, it could lead to some great AP feat, but since I suck at math, maybe someone else could calc it, but since we need to confirm the verasity of this, I'm gonna stated it here firts.)
-I still think that the fact that the 7 and 8 sanctuary guardians are stronger then the nuclear robot could lead to Ness solidifying his 7-C tier, and since their AP is way stonger than that of the Nuclear robot, is could probably boost the Kids to a possible Higher rating. (If the krakens thing is rejected of course)
-While the American version of the game lefts the PK Starstorm description vage, the Japanese states that the attack is, infact, a technic to make Star fell down to destroy, this could be justified by the fact that the attack covers all the are in the battle, and that it can't be dodged (Even when the character can dodge light at this point). While I remember reading that this could not be accepted considering that that wouldn't make sence, since that would destroy the planet, I would suggest to remember how some profiles here can be accepted with very high destructive capabilites that don't destroy the planet where the user are fighting, yet they get ignore, and get accepted as Quantifiable AP, then again, PK abilities can be control by the user and modified to acomplishied certain utilities (Like Lucas with his PK Love, wich centers all the potential attack into an object), so Poo manipulating these to not dstroy the planet can be justified. And even then, by the point where Poo comes back with the technic finally learned, the Kids are already by the 7 and 8 melody, wich means that they have already become very strong. Another justification could be Ness's Magicant feat, wich was calculated to be High-4C via creating a realm with many stars. Since the Ness that created Magicant is Pre-Universal Ness, and he's still comparable to the rest of the party at this point (Hearing the 8 melodies does not upgrade him or change him in power, it only makes him remeber his memories to create Magicant) it could also justified the verasity of PK Starstom at that point.
Well, that's pretty much it. I'm going to take a rest. Feel free to discus my points or call me wanker, I accept both lmao.
Discussions:
Well, in this part I want to discuss some situations in the game that can be interpreted in some ways to change or upgrade the characters in the verse. So here we go:
-During one part in the game, we can see the kids sailing into the Ocean, where we can see volcanoes, and islands. During this part in the game, we can see the first appareance of the Kraken, who shows that is not that little compared to the kids. While ist pretty obvious that the scaling in EarthBound is horrible due to how small the art style remarks the building, trees, vehicles, etc, that doesn't mean that the game doesn't specified what are in fact, actual real objects and how it can be compared. Obviously the game makes most objects small due to sprite limitation, but when it comes to showing something big or spacious, the game tries to show how the objects are, in fact, pretty big and similar to the real world.
With that Mumbo Jumbo out of the way, we can now said that the volcanoes in EarthBound can still be considered Real volcanoes in the way in how they are despicted, since we can see that they are shown to be kinda of skinnie, and tall, due to clouds being form in the top of the volcanoe. This seems to be a Composite Type Volcanoe, since the tall top and the crater in it. This Volcanoes can range from 4.000 m to even 8.000 m, so even at his minimum, the range from this can be pretty big, and since the kraken is despicted as the size of these volcanoes in the picture, this could mean that the Kids can fight extremely big Moster very early in the Mid-Game. (While there's a stronger version of the Kraken that is smaller than this one, there should also be remarkable that these Krakens can vary in size, since in Ness's Magicant, these Krakens can be the exact same size at him, so it should still be considered.) It should also be notice that only when the Kraken appears its changes the lighting of the entire sceneario, turning the Suny day into a Dark tone, wich would suggest that the Krakens presence can change the climate/create dark clouds to cover the scenario (Or it could only be for dramatic effect, but since nowhere else in the game this is repeated for some kinda of scene, and the game really shows when theres a change in climate or in the day, I think that the Kraken changing the climate could be more appropiate, and since it change the ambience of the entire Island, it could lead to some great AP feat, but since I suck at math, maybe someone else could calc it, but since we need to confirm the verasity of this, I'm gonna stated it here firts.)
-I still think that the fact that the 7 and 8 sanctuary guardians are stronger then the nuclear robot could lead to Ness solidifying his 7-C tier, and since their AP is way stonger than that of the Nuclear robot, is could probably boost the Kids to a possible Higher rating. (If the krakens thing is rejected of course)
-While the American version of the game lefts the PK Starstorm description vage, the Japanese states that the attack is, infact, a technic to make Star fell down to destroy, this could be justified by the fact that the attack covers all the are in the battle, and that it can't be dodged (Even when the character can dodge light at this point). While I remember reading that this could not be accepted considering that that wouldn't make sence, since that would destroy the planet, I would suggest to remember how some profiles here can be accepted with very high destructive capabilites that don't destroy the planet where the user are fighting, yet they get ignore, and get accepted as Quantifiable AP, then again, PK abilities can be control by the user and modified to acomplishied certain utilities (Like Lucas with his PK Love, wich centers all the potential attack into an object), so Poo manipulating these to not dstroy the planet can be justified. And even then, by the point where Poo comes back with the technic finally learned, the Kids are already by the 7 and 8 melody, wich means that they have already become very strong. Another justification could be Ness's Magicant feat, wich was calculated to be High-4C via creating a realm with many stars. Since the Ness that created Magicant is Pre-Universal Ness, and he's still comparable to the rest of the party at this point (Hearing the 8 melodies does not upgrade him or change him in power, it only makes him remeber his memories to create Magicant) it could also justified the verasity of PK Starstom at that point.
Well, that's pretty much it. I'm going to take a rest. Feel free to discus my points or call me wanker, I accept both lmao.
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@Scarlet
Should Buzz Buzz really be comparable to PK Flash?
@Chrisras
That Kraken should be calculated...
The "possibly higher" rating was already accepted... but i forgot to add it :v
Well i still think that is a bit uncertain, even with that magicant calc so we should wait morre input...
Also how does creating multiples stars only get High 4-C?
Should Buzz Buzz really be comparable to PK Flash?
@Chrisras
That Kraken should be calculated...
The "possibly higher" rating was already accepted... but i forgot to add it :v
Well i still think that is a bit uncertain, even with that magicant calc so we should wait morre input...
Also how does creating multiples stars only get High 4-C?
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I think it would be fine
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- Thread starter
- #80
Should't all the main casts be Town class? Since all the protas can damage physically altmost all enemies, even the stronger one's. Only the enemies that don't shown any sign of physical combat (Like the Starman, who Physical attack is firing a laser) should remain unknown (I believe)
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