DxD Issei AP Revision 3

[MasqueTLDF]

Hey, back again with another CRT, this time covering the Volume 5-15 Key of Issei's new profile sandbox. Again, we'll only be covering AP. I'll briefly explain the reasoning for the tiers in this post but for more detailed explanations, sources, and images, go here. (The only necessary part for this thread is the Volume 5, up to Volume 15 sections.)

Spoiler: Boost

Issei Hyoudou's main ability which allows him to double his power as many times as his gauntlet makes the "BOOST" sound. Example: Base * 2 * 2 * 2 (Power gained from this ability is temporary.)

Spoiler: Part 1

Base: City Level (10.31171751295859214935302734375 Megatons)
Reasoning: Downscales from the BxB Mountain feat. (Multiplier is 2^18)
Welsh Sonic Boost Knight: Higher
Reasoning: Coated in an armor unquantifiably weaker than his basic BxB armor but stronger than his base.
BxB: Small Country Level (2.7031548757170171804 Teratons)
Reasoning: Vaporized a Large Mountain using his Dragon Shot technique. (First link is proving it's vaporization, second link is the calc for the feat.)
Welsh Blaster Bishop: Higher
Reasoning: An evolved form of the standard BxB. The amount of armor worn by Issei (BxB) is equivalent to his strength (It's made from Issei's dragon energy) and WBB's armor is larger than the standard BxB and is able to use stronger techniques. (Dragon Blaster > Dragon Shot)
Welsh Blaster Bishop + Boosts: Higher
Reasoning: Can Boost an unknown amount of times.
BxB 14 Boosts: Multi Continent Level (44.2884894837476094836736 Petatons)
Reasoning: 14 Boosts (2^14x) stronger than his BxB state.

Spoiler: Part 2

Welsh Dragonic Rook: Country Level (16.2189292543021030824 Teratons)
Reasoning: Armor is 6 times thicker and stronger than basic BxB. (Multiplier already accepted on Issei's profile)
Welsh Dragonic Rook + 14 Boosts: Multi Continent Level (265.7309369024856569020416 Petatons)
Reasoning: 14 Boosts (2^14x) greater than WDR.
CxC: Small Planet Level (1.21442893110513387 Zettatons)
Reasoning: Comparable to someone who is stated to be able to split the Earth in half with a single strike. (Same person is able to easily one-shot WDR Issei with Boosts. [Multi-Contintental])
Fang Blast Booster: Higher
Reasoning: Comparable to CxC in the same way that WBB is to BxB.
Solid Impact Booster: Small Planet Level (7.28657358663080322 Zettatons)
Reasoning: Comparable to CxC in the same way that WDR is to BxB.
SIB+14 Boosts: Large Planet Level (119.38322164335907995648 Yottatons)
Reasoning: 14 Boosts (2^14x) greater than his SIB state.

Spoiler: Part 3

Incomplete Juggernaut Drive: Small Planet Level (12.1442893110513387 Zettatons)
Reasoning: CxC Issei was equal to Shalba Beelzebub, in Volume 6, Shalba used one of Ophis' Snakes which grants a multiplier of at least 10x. (Accepted Multiplier) Incomplete Juggernaut Drive Issei was vastly superior to this version of Shalba. So JD Issei >= CxC x 10.
Incomplete Juggernaut Drive + 31 Boosts: Small Star Level (26.0796627120639355467595776 Quettatons)
Reasoning: 31 Boosts (2^31x) greater than Incomplete Juggernaut Drive.

If there're any questions about the consistency or accuracy of the multiplier of the Boosts (or anything else), please feel free to read the earliest linked blog.

Spoiler: When I'll apply these updates.

When the rest of the threads are done.

Thanks for reading
Agree: Dragongod224, TotalMasterInfinity, DarkDragonMedeus, BlackeJan, Qliphoth_Bacikal, UchihaSlayer96

Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Dragongod224]

I agree with all

But

[JD incomplete transform] used by issei

 

[MasqueTLDF]

But

[JD incomplete transform] used by issei

What specifically is wrong with this section?

 

[Dragongod224]

What specifically is wrong with this section?

You should add incomplete Jagannath drive

that because issei don't use complete Jagannath drive

 

[MasqueTLDF]

You should add incomplete Jagannath drive

that because issei don't use complete Jagannath drive

Technically, no one we've seen in the series has but are you saying that you'd just like for me to change the name?

 

[Dragongod224]

Technically, no one we've seen in the series has but are you saying that you'd just like for me to change the name?

Vali is clear that in anime that it is incomplete transformation

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Vali is clear that in anime that it is incomplete transformation

Yes, a complete transformation would be what happened to the previous Sekiryuutei. A permanent state where the user loses control and eventually dies. I'm agreeing with you here, so what exactly do you think should be changed. (Please be specific.)

 

[Dragongod224]

Name of the transformer Jagannath drive to incomplete Jagannath drive

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Name of the transformer Jagannath drive to incomplete Jagannath drive

All done.

 

[BlackeJan]

Have an issue with the scaling and speed and I also still think using a bunch of boost instead of it having a max cap would lead to inaccuracies but that’s for another story.

Balance Break is Issei summoning his sacred gear but his also gives me powerups, which is fine until he uses powerful attacks that’s above his own. Anything that’s Dragon Shot and any other techniques he does except for the welsh transformations need to have it own tier instead of him actually scaling to it

I will be back about the speed

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Have an issue with the scaling and speed and I also still think using a bunch of boost instead of it having a max cap would lead to inaccuracies but that’s for another story.

Balance Break is Issei summoning his sacred gear but his also gives me powerups, which is fine until he uses powerful attacks that’s above his own. Anything that’s Dragon Shot and any other techniques he does except for the welsh transformations need to have it own tier instead of him actually scaling to it

I will be back about the speed

Speed isn't being discussed in this thread and do you have any evidence that Dragon Shot/Similar techniques (aside from Nyuutron Beam Cannon/Longinus Smasher) scale above Issei's physical strength?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

All of those can be handled in another thread. Let’s not get sidetracked like the original thread was.

The main point is for staff to decide whether Boost should be applied or not. The other things can be handled later, lest the thread gets derailed and clogged again.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I agree with everything, but I want to mention certain point.

Illegal Move Triaina
As we know Triaina's forms are based on the Evil Pieces of Knight, Bishop and Rook.
Each form enhances one aspect
Welsh Sonic Boost Knight enhances speed
Welsh Dragonic Rook enhances strength and defense
Welsh Blaster Bishop enhances demonic power.

Now we know that Welsh Dragonic Rook should be about 6 times stronger and more durable than BxB since the armor is 6 times thicker which implies an increase of 6 to Durability, but since the form enhances both Durability and Physical Strength (which would be Striking Strength, Lifting Strength and Attack Potency) the strength should also be 6 times greater.

What I'm getting at is that I think the x6 multiplier should also apply to the other forms, i.e.:
Welsh Sonic Boost Knight should be a x6 speed
Welsh Blaster Bishop should be a x6 Demonic Power which would be a x6 Attack Potency.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

What I'm getting at is that I think the x6 multiplier should also apply to the other forms, i.e.:
Welsh Sonic Boost Knight should be a x6 speed
Welsh Blaster Bishop should be a x6 Demonic Power which would be a x6 Attack Potency.

Is there any in series evidence that points to these exact multipliers? Like a direct statement?
That is the requirement after all.

"Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else."

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Is there any in series evidence that points to these exact multipliers? Like a direct statement?
That is the requirement after all.

It’s only the Rook armour that’s described to be five or six times thicker than the base armour.

 

[BlackeJan]

All of those can be handled in another thread. Let’s not get sidetracked like the original thread was.

The main point is for staff to decide whether Boost should be applied or not. The other things can be handled later, lest the thread gets derailed and clogged again.

I was talking about AP but went full dummy thinking that speed was also gonna be talked about since I say the blog. I thought that was the main point of this thread

 

[BlackeJan]

It’s only the Rook armour that’s described to be five or six times thicker than the base armour.

So that would be just for durability then if that’s true

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

What comes to mind is Ajuka's statement that a mere x2 or x3 increase is considered weak, which would make any case where a character's power grows by a non-insignificant degree at least a x4.

 

[BlackeJan]

What comes to mind is Ajuka's statement that a mere x2 or x3 increase is considered weak, which would make any case where a character's power grows by a non-insignificant degree at least a x4.

Well imo we shouldn’t go too crazy with the multipliers. We can just keep the Welsh’s transformation with “higher” and focus more on the boost

 

[Dragongod224]

Hi guys


Already tell this you accept this or not the current threads



If you want to discuss on other topic then do it in another threads on this

High School DxD Universe Discussion Thread

If I were Ishi, I would have just gone balls to the walls on using the JP Gods. But hey, that's what fanfiction is for to remedy that owo.

vsbattles.com

 

[MasqueTLDF]

What comes to mind is Ajuka's statement that a mere x2 or x3 increase is considered weak, which would make any case where a character's power grows by a non-insignificant degree at least a x4.

I don't think that's applicable in this instance.

 

[Dragongod224]

I agree with everything, but I want to mention certain point.

Are you agree with this thread.


Or the certain points you mention are not actually confirmed in light novel so that is different topic.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I think I made it clear that I agree with the thread

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Bump

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I guess I should mention this, in the novels when Issei BxB Outrage increases his power first increases 6 times and then 29 times, not 41, the total Boost is 35.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

I guess I should mention this, in the novels when Issei BxB Outrage increases his power first increases 6 times and then 29 times, not 41, the total Boost is 35.

This is unrelated to the current thread (V5-15), I'll fix this later though please send anything unrelated to the current topic to my message wall.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I guess I should mention this, in the novels when Issei BxB Outrage increases his power first increases 6 times and then 29 times, not 41, the total Boost is 35.

OOF.

Looks like the fan translators must have did one too many Boost add on's.

I would do this too if I had to look at the same word or sentence multiple times in one passage xD

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Guess I'll try to bump this.

I still don't quite know if the Boosts have actually been accepted or not since I wasn't keeping up with that at all.

But as for the AP upgrade, sure. This ofc assuming Boosts are included but I always hear how controversial those are.

Though it should be said many times that these are canonical multipliers and I believe this had been said to be something rather essential to Issei's powerset given he's used his Boosted Gear's ability of Doubling in just about every fight or training session he's been in. Said Boosts are even apart of some of the feats he's one such as the mountain hole boring(?) feat he did back in Vol 2 with just his Sacred Gear's base form with about a dozen Boosts iirc.

Though I did miss out on the initial two, I do say that these AP scaling for Issei (and by proxy, anyone who scales to him in some way or another) is needed to iron them out.

As for the usage of Boosts, it's probably worth looking into the OG raws if possible just to make sure the correct amount of them is right.

Going by what TotalMaster showed, it would seem as if the original had fewer Boosts Issei had used than what the fan translation have shown. IDK what the official localization got but I would like to assume they got their amount right (though I don't own any of them so someone who does have them would need to check them out). Though that said, it's probably irrelevant to this current thread and can be reviewed another time separately.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

In official English they are first 5 Boost followed by another 10 Boost, for a total of 15 Boost.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

In official English they are first 5 Boost followed by another 10 Boost, for a total of 15 Boost.

Again, if you'd like to discuss Volume 4, please do it in the General Discussion Thread, or my message wall. It is irrelevant to the current discussion. If you'd like to discuss Volumes 5-15, that is fine.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

In official English they are first 5 Boost followed by another 10 Boost, for a total of 15 Boost.

What a fk downgrade xD

At this point, you really gotta look at the OG to see how many there is being works of original source usually take precedence here.

Again, if you'd like to discuss Volume 4, please do it in the General Discussion Thread, or my message wall. It is irrelevant to the current discussion. If you'd like to discuss Volumes 5-15, that is fine.

This. Although considering this IS covering Vols 5-15, it might be worth to look at the other instances of Issei using multiple Boosts in the relevant volumes.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

At this point, you really gotta look at the OG to see how many there is being works of original source usually take precedence here.


This. Although considering this IS covering Vols 5-15, it might be worth to look at the other instances of Issei using multiple Boosts in the relevant volumes.

Considering that Issei is consistently shown using exactly 14 Boosts at a time during this period (At least in every major instance used for scaling), I'd say that verifying that once in the original language should be sufficient. (Which I can do.) This is consistent throughout all translations.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Considering that Issei is consistently shown using exactly 14 Boosts at a time during this period (At least in every major instance used for scaling), I'd say that verifying that once in the original language should be sufficient. (Which I can do.) This is consistent throughout all translations.

True.

I meant more like the multiple Boost up's Issei uses that's either lower or bigger than what the OG source showed.

Like as Total showed, Issei did a total of 35 Boosts in comparison to the fan translation putting in 41 while the official localization instead got it to a mere 15.

The point I'm getting to you and Total is going over the raws if possible and compare cuz either sources gives a higher rate that upgrades Issei's Boosts (FTL, fan translation) or massively downgrades it (OTL, official translation), which is a good idea to review them and compare if not even put this on the Boosts blog to compare.

But as you noted, this isn't the right place to really talk about it at the moment and can be discussed for another time to adjust things.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

True.

I meant more like the multiple Boost up's Issei uses that's either lower or bigger than what the OG source showed.

Like as Total showed, Issei did a total of 35 Boosts in comparison to the fan translation putting in 41 while the official localization instead got it to a mere 15.

The point I'm getting to you and Total is going over the raws if possible and compare cuz either sources gives a higher rate that upgrades Issei's Boosts (FTL, fan translation) or massively downgrades it (OTL, official translation), which is a good idea to review them and compare if not even put this on the Boosts blog to compare.

But as you noted, this isn't the right place to really talk about it at the moment and can be discussed for another time to adjust things.

Sure, if there's ever a boost number error found (that's important), stat values can be fixed at any time.

 

[BlackeJan]

The point I'm getting to you and Total is going over the raws if possible and compare cuz either sources gives a higher rate that upgrades Issei's Boosts (FTL, fan translation) or massively downgrades it (OTL, official translation), which is a good idea to review them and compare if not even put this on the Boosts blog to compare.

But as you noted, this isn't the right place to really talk about it at the moment and can be discussed for another time to adjust things.

We might as well do it now then. The point of this thread is to see if Boosts is usable since of the controversy of it. We don’t want anything to go inaccurate along the way just to make another thread to then change EVERYTHING again

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Bump

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

We might as well do it now then. The point of this thread is to see if Boosts is usable since of the controversy of it. We don’t want anything to go inaccurate along the way just to make another thread to then change EVERYTHING again.

Fair point.

I think first should be dealing with the AP thread or something at the least, then this can be discussed with Masque and the rest seeing as Total's example of the number of boosts being different from OG Raw to the translations can really shake up where the DxD cast will stand if Boosted Gears Boosts are to be accepted to the fold.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Fair point.

I think first should be dealing with the AP thread or something at the least, then this can be discussed with Masque and the rest seeing as Total's example of the number of boosts being different from OG Raw to the translations can really shake up where the DxD cast will stand if Boosted Gears Boosts are to be accepted to the fold.

I'll check around if there are any examples of this that'd be necessary to mention, and bring up any I find in the GDT.

 

[BlackeJan]

Fair point.

I think first should be dealing with the AP thread or something at the least, then this can be discussed with Masque and the rest seeing as Total's example of the number of boosts being different from OG Raw to the translations can really shake up where the DxD cast will stand if Boosted Gears Boosts are to be accepted to the fold.

Exactly. Cause if this does end up creating inaccurate rating or anything ends up being controversial then we will have to restart everything