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Dropping DBZ Movie scaling for Toei Goku.

sanicspood

sanicspood

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so this thread was about separating the toei z Goku page from movie scaling but that would be redundant cuz separating it would just have 2 versions of essentially the same Goku with a few new stuff, but people suggested to just drop movie scaling and have just anime z Goku scaling just on the toei page, movie characters can still be on the site but not for toei Goku since putting movie scaling and anime z scaling in one profile is just a cluster ****.


so in conclusion:

  1. we drop movie scaling for toei goku and have an anime z goku only (which would result in goku just being multi solar cuz the movies clearly don't scale to z anime)
  2. keep the movie characters and villains because there's no point in removing them
  3. for GT we could still have movie gokus multi galaxy level feat since we consider that movie feat canon to gt here, so nothing would change for him
agree:

disagree:

neutral:
 
SAVE_20210411_020949.jpg
 
Is there a way to split the Movie scalign and have a "Movie Goku", or you thinking to just scrap movie Goku entirely?
 
A few of the movies would be valid, which are movie 1, movie 13, and I think movie 5 since the events are canon to the series. Remind me anymore that I might be missing.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
A few of the movies would be valid, which are movie 1, movie 13, and I think movie 5 since the events are canon to the series. Remind me anymore that I might be missing.
Click to expand...
Fusion Reborn to GT maybe? Since Goku and Vegeta know the Fusion dance there, and he never taught it to Vegeta in DBZ
 
If we do this, DBZ will have 3 profile, 1 for manga (obviously), 1 for Toei Anime and 1 for Toei Movie
 
CR_Catinho said:
Can i get an example of said contradictions ?
Click to expand...
Tree of Might somehow happened after the Saiyans have arrived, but Piccolo is alive, Lord Slug somwhow being between Namwk and Frieza Saga, but have Goku on Earth, which is impossible.

Meta-Cooler and Super Android 13 appearing in the beginning if the Android Saga, but before Cell and the HBTC

Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan have Goku as Grade 4 SSJ, but he also depowers to his base form despite never doing so between him exiting the time chamber and the Cell Games
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Tree of Might somehow happened after the Saiyans have arrived, but Piccolo is alive, Lord Slug somwhow being between Namwk and Frieza Saga, but have Goku on Earth, which is impossible.

Meta-Cooler and Super Android 13 appearing in the beginning if the Android Saga, but before Cell and the HBTC

Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan have Goku as Grade 4 SSJ, but he also depowers to his base form despite never doing so between him exiting the time chamber and the Cell Games
Click to expand...
no not inconsistencies between the movie and the anime , i meant inconsistencies between the movies themselves
 

Kanzentai - Translations

Kanzentai ~ providing detailed and researched information, and media for true DragonBall fans everywhere.
web.archive.org web.archive.org

The Daizenshuu 6 pretty much answers all of the questions about why the movies cannot link up with the anime, nor can they link up with other movies.

For example, Super Android 13 (which is explicitly stated to take place in another dimension), Return of Cooler, and Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan all take place in vastly different worlds with their own self-contained stories. All of the movies and their sequels, appear to take place in their own self-contained, vastly different from the other movies.

Really, the only movie that matters anymore is Dead Zone, since that is literally the only movie confirmed to exist within the story of the anime. I've seen some people argue that Cooler's Revenge and Wrath of the Dragon also exist in the anime, but those movies are less "We exist alongside the anime" and moreso "We don't have any contradictions, so we could exist alongside the anime".

Of course, Fusion Reborn is canon to GT, with Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance and the two having become Gogeta in the past already. Wrath of the Dragon is canon to GT as well, since Goku knows the Dragon Fist, and Trunks has Tapion's sword, albeit only in the opening. And, Final Form Cooler appears in the Super 17 Saga, but none of the other movies have this treatment. You could use GT to argue that Cooler's Revenge and Wrath of the Dragon are canon to Z, but uh... Fusion Reborn. And then again, GT is a "side-story".
 
Vietthai96 said:
But we can't just kick movies out of the window and pretend it never happen
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i mean its not like i was saying to throw all of the movies away, I still suggested to keep the movie villains and characters on the site just not for goku
 
Unless we want a Composite Toei Goku (Which I don't really mind), I agree that we should stop scalling all the movies to the Anime. So we should just see which movie is canon for the Anime, and discard the feats from the movies that aren't canon to Toei, and then done

Gogeta knowing the Fusion dance could be because Fusion Reborn is canon, yes he already saw the dance, but every media shows it as something hard to master and that it takes some tries, so unless Vegeta trained this (Which is unlikely on his own), the answer would be Fusion Reborn
 
IIRC its agreed the anime should scale to the movies, but not the other way around.

Either way the movie villains would stay as they are, perhaps with scaling from other movies being removed in some cases is all.

The reasonable options for Goku I can see are

1) Just remove movie feats from TOIE Goku entirely.

2) Make another key or profile for each movie Goku/continuity.

3) Just make a general movie key or profile for Goku, kind of like injustice ones that are injustice composites to my understanding.

4) Leave TOIE Goku as he is and acknowledge he is a pseudo composite, like the injustice profiles.

Composites still exist on the wiki, they are just not common and only used sparingly.

I do think the movies should be differentiated from the anime in some way though, since they are objectively alternate dimensions according to AT.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
IIRC its agreed the anime should scale to the movies, but not the other way around.

Either way the movie villains would stay as they are, perhaps with scaling from other movies being removed in some cases is all.

The reasonable options for Goku I can see are

1) Just remove movie feats from TOIE Goku entirely.

2) Make another key or profile for each movie Goku/continuity.

3) Just make a general movie key or profile for Goku, kind of like injustice ones that are injustice composites to my understanding.

4) Leave TOIE Goku as he is and acknowledge he is a pseudo composite, like the injustice profiles.

Composites still exist on the wiki, they are just not common and only used sparingly.

I do think the movies should be differentiated from the anime in some way though, since they are objectively alternate dimensions according to AT.
Click to expand...
I also don't mind just leave as Composite Toei Goku but I believe if we separate, a Movie Profiles with the most relevant Keys should do the trick

Like a Broly Movie key for example, with the 4-A and MFTL+ feats scalling

Some movies afaik don't have any relevant feats unless we assume, let's say, that Cooler scales to Anime Freeza, for example
 
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I understand why movies should get removed but I perssonaly think better if Goku stay that way composite. If we gonna made movie Goku profile we should only give him key for the most relevant movies that had new feats, ablites and forms
Also we really should get more anime profiles
 
Dante_Demon_Killah said:
I also don't mind just leave as Composite Toei Goku but I believe if we separate, a Movie Profiles with the most relevant Keys should do the trick

Like a Broly Movie key for example, with the 4-A and MFTL+ feats scalling

Some movies afaik don't have any relevant feats unless we assume, let's say, that Cooler scales to Anime Freeza, for example
Click to expand...
feats for the movies aren't really an issue since the anime is canon to them anyway
 
The problem with creating a profile with "only the relevant movie keys" is that movie Goku is just an extension of anime Goku in a bunch of what-if scenarios. The Goku from the anime is different enough from the Goku from the manga to warrant his own page, but the Goku from the movies is not different enough from Goku from the anime confused yet. It would literally just be a rehash of anime Goku, except the actual anime Goku no longer has his movie stuff but at that point, why not just combine them again? Just ax the movie-only content from Goku's page entirely, since not much of it is relevant anyway. The only thing that changes is his rating from the Cell Saga onward, removing his 4-A and 3-B feats from Movie 10 and Movie 13, and his False Super Saiyan from Movies 4.
 
For the record I am fine with either making a movies key, or keeping it as is, movie composite, and just recognizing he is such. I think more profiles would be redundant though.
 
Yeah I guess Movie Goku isn't that different, like it was said above, it's basically Anime Goku on what if scenarios with sometimes higher feats. If the Anime is indeed canon to the movies, then I don't really see a reason to make a Movie Profile, maybe he can have movie keys on his anime profile ? Like a Broly key movie between his Cell Key and Boo Key, since he has higher feats in this movie
 
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