Based on nothing? The Dream World has its own space, time, endless abysses, and dimensions; it doesn't just contain a bunch of nebulae or starry skies and it has more than just 2,500 stars. And you still think that's the size of a 4-A structure? Yeah, I don't think you're getting the size of them at all.
Space, time, and dimensions can be 4-A if they aren't big enough. Having more than 2500 stars is meaningless, since the gap between 4-A and higher tiers is astronomical; You could have millions of stars and it still wouldn't be a fraction of a percent of the universe.
Nothing in the scan proves the dimensions or time are the size of starry skies, though. In fact, I don't even see any stars in the scan with the dimensions. Even if you were to assume that all of the things in each location of the Dream World were the size of starry skies, combined it'd still make it bigger than that.
The Dream Depot goes on ad infinitum, so at worst, it's universe level, tier 3-A, based on the logic in the quoted paragraph.
As many dreams use real life as a basis, which takes place in the universe, a dreamer dreams of real life and then it gets converted into a dream world, so the "dimension" is universal in scope.
The Dream Depot is where all dreams go, meaning that many dreams continuously and regularly get added to it.
"Even if nothing says they're parallel, we should treat them like they are anyways". No?? That's not how that works at all; The games give zero indication that there exists trillions of times more space in a dream than we ever actually see, and so we have no reason to assume that. Even though dreams do reflect reality to some extent via recreating specific real-world locations, that doesn't mean they reflect all of existence all at once. They're likely just recreating that lone location.
Your response suggests that statements as evidence are a prerequisite, even though evidence can be in other forms. I wrote that we know that the worlds are parallel even though they haven't been plainly described in that way, not that "nothing says" it as in "there's no indication" of it.
Let me rephrase that; There is no indication, visual or otherwise, that would suggest that dreams are reflections of the entirety of reality, rather than just the small sections we see in game.
That's more reasonable. I have taken a lot more than what I wrote into consideration though, so I have some more explaining to do.
We kind of do, yes. OP tackles this but people here are really underestimating the gargantuan size of the universe compared to a simple starry sky, nebulae, or even galaxy.
Dream Stone doesn’t contain all dreams, just the ones provably on Pill’o Island. It would apply to exclusively Dream Depot.
I did discuss this idea with Fuji about if the infinite dreamers interpretation was taken resulting in a single low 2-c space, but I honestly couldn’t think of a single instance on this site where that was allowed and she was pretty sure the standards just didn’t allow for it so we left it out.
Nothing you said here proves universal size lol. The endless abyss point is also a massive extrapolation, for one the abyss literally ends because Mario falls out of it, and there’s no statement about its size at any point, it’s just an attack visual.
Again literally nothing here proves universal size even when combined together. Dreams haven’t shown anything uni in size. Several verses are stuck at 4A when they only have feats of starry skies being affected.
Uh, we pretty consistently rely on the Japanese translations. The only stuff we bring up for the English translations are evidence in favor of dreams being uni that is currently accepted, and one line about the English translating something one way and the likely reason it was done.
I think a lot of this is just massive amounts of extrapolation and not really how dream feats are viewed, otherwise damn near every dream feat ever would end up being uni. Considering most dreams in MP5 are very innocuous things that amount to house or island sized spaces, with Future Dream just being a space station in space, I don’t think it was exactly the developers intention to have people analyzing about the exact sizes of the physical space of dreams, I seriously doubt they intended for them to be entire universes in size either.
You still just don't get. Even if all the contents in the dreams such as the dimensions, space, and time were galaxy/starry sky-sized like Fuji said, it doesn't make the dream the size of a galaxy or starry sky. If anything, when you combined the three, it would make the dream bigger than that. I'm not saying the dreams are universes; I'm going over the size of them. Pay attention.
It's true that I used some extrapolation, but it can be a useful tool to discover possible truths, rather than just an excuse for making baseless assumptions. Based on the reasoning I provided, I think there's a good chance, albeit not a certainty, that "world" was meant as in "universe".
There is no point I’ve found in the original JPN text that uses the word ginga when describing future dream, so this point ultimately wouldn’t affect Future Dream in the end, as it uses just exclusively uchuu and uchuu kuukan. My entire point of the English translation using galaxy was that they likely did it just out of confusion, as uchuu isn’t really clarified in cosmic scope outside of “space”, so they likely just slapped galaxy onto it.
That only weakens the counterargument since Uchu means universe. And the Endless/Infinite statements exist still in the Japanese version.
Think OP addressed the Endless/Infinite stuff being more about the dream lasting forever rather than being physically infinite, pretty well.
Are you really just gonna ignore the size of the contents of the dreams? Have you even seen the arguments addressed here?
I ask you again, where's the proof that these dimensions and time are 4-A? What scans show that they're starry sky-sized or galaxy-sized? And even if they are, everything else that's galaxy or starry sky-sized like the space, sky, and background should make the dream as a whole bigger than the size of galaxies or starry skies?
Just saying that the Endless statement probably ain't usable
We haven't been shown explicit proof that they're larger than 4-A, assuming a larger size would be speculative. Can't prove a negative lol
You don't even have any proof that the dimensions or time are only 4-A, and even if you did, when you combined everything else that's 4-A like the space, and background, it'd still make the Dream World larger than 4-A or 3-C. What don't you understand about that? Even if everything in a dream is 4-A, from the dimensions to the time as well as anything else, it'd still make it larger than a damn starry sky.
The universe kinda exceeds these scales, like millions of times bigger.
I tackled this in the original post, but no, Uchuu doesn’t mean exclusively universe, it has multiple meanings, with the main one being a blanket statement of “space”, and Uchuu kuukan is even used, which is explicitly just “outer space”, not universe. “Universe” and “cosmos” are other meanings of Uchuu, it’s a multi meaning word, and “space” is the most applicable meaning here.
Once again, please read the part of OP labeled “Conclusion” until the end, it’s covered with scans exhaustively there.
Backing up Adem further, The universe contains at least 20 trillion galaxies so the scale difference is massive, yes.
You never once proved that the dimensions or time are anywhere close to Multi-Solar System level. There's no place in Dream Team that implies or shows that they are, and like I said for the last and final time, even if all that stuff was Multi-Solar System level combined with all the supposed starry sky/galaxy-sized space, skies, and background, it doesn't make the dream itself the size of a galaxy or starry sky. All that starry sky or galaxy-sized stuff in the dream combined would have to imply the dream is larger than a mere galaxy or starry sky. Why can't you understand this? Why are you not taking into account the space these starry sky or galaxy-sized contents in these dreams combined could make the dream itself potentially bigger? It may not make them universal, but it certainly doesn't just make them the size of a galaxy.
I don’t want to be rude, but you’re the one who’s not really understanding anything. There is no proof that these dimensions/dreams are universal in size. All that there is is the visual proof we are given, said proof is only 4A in size, therefore, dreams are 4A in size. If we cannot prove the dream is larger than the space we see within it, we cannot say it is larger than the space within it.
No, you're not understanding anything. You keep saying the dreams are only 4-A but you're not taking into account the contents they can contain and instead are assuming they're only 4-A or 3-C.
4-A backgrounds just means 4-A at minimum and can be supporting evidence for Universes when other details are taken into account.
I know it has multiple synonyms, but its default definition is a universal body of space. Plenty of multilinguistic members and especially Executor N0 have said it numerous times iirc.
That is another assumption. But it's supporting evidence of Future Dream being a timeline if that is the case. But either way, it says in the universe page that whether or not Endless/Infinite is hyperbolic or not or referring to its time rather than size, it is still supporting evidence of being universe.
