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Dreams Into Nightmares [Mario Cosmology Downgrade]

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Uh, no? This is what you said:

You never said anything about the space-time. Hence, this is why I told you multiple times you should take into account the contents of things.

No offense. Just gonna leave that there.
No, like I said, it was discussed after:

No lol

Having an infinite 4D volume is low 2-C.
Dreams still wouldn't be tier 2, nor would the collection of all the dreams in the Dream Depot, although I'm personally fine with the Dream Depot itself being just low 2-C (or 3-A). All this would change is add one more universe onto the Void's 2-C downgrade.
I said that 3A thing about EXPRESSLY Future Dream, not the Dream Depot. I honestly don’t even know if it fully agree with that compromise either.

If it fits site standards for an infinite amount of 4A space times = 1 L2C space, then I’m fine with the Dream Depot being L2C.
 
No, like I said, it was discussed after:



I said that 3A thing about EXPRESSLY Future Dream, not the Dream Depot. I honestly don’t even know if it fully agree with that compromise either.

If it fits site standards for an infinite amount of 4A space times = 1 L2C space, then I’m fine with the Dream Depot being L2C.
Alright, then; my apologies.

I would also argue for a higher amount of dreams for the Dream Stone to warrant a 3-B based upon the population combined with the amount of time the artifact has been around era-wise, but I suppose I'll save that for another thread... unless you and Fuji wanna settle for that right now.
 
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Alright, then; my apologies.

I would also argue for a higher amount of dreams for the Dream Stone to warrant a 3-B based upon the population combined with the amount of time the artifact has been around era-wise, but I suppose I'll save that for another thread... unless you and Fuji wanna settle for that right now.
I think that would probably be best saved for another time, but I see no reason to inflate the calc with the whole era thing, especially with the whole “needed to be powered up” aspect
 
I think that would probably be best saved for another time, but I see no reason to inflate the calc with the whole era thing, especially with the whole “needed to be powered up” aspect
This last part in particular was settled in the last Dream Stone thread, as Bowser and Antasma needed to power up the Dream Stone first. That's where the 100,000 value came from (based on the population of the smallest island)
 
This last part in particular was settled in the last Dream Stone thread, as Bowser and Antasma needed to power up the Dream Stone first. That's where the 100,000 value came from (based on the population of the smallest island)
Yeah I know, hence why I don’t agree with giving it all the dreams from however many eras the stone has existed. It being powerless/needing to be repowered in the first place kind of kills that idea, and there’s no proof it was passively absorbing dreams all that time either.
 
This last part in particular was settled in the last Dream Stone thread, as Bowser and Antasma needed to power up the Dream Stone first. That's where the 100,000 value came from (based on the population of the smallest island)
Actually, what if we used the average number of days in a year and multiplied it by 100,000?
 
Why would the Dream stone even have all those dreams in the first place? It was only able to absorb the dreams it did in DT because of the Dreambeats being played anyways
 
I suppose for a small review of where things currently stand:

Dreams = 4A
Dream Depot = L2C
Dream Stone = 4A * 10,000 (3C)
Void = 2C (11 Universes)
 
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As far as AP values for individual dreams and the Dream Stone go:

Dreams: 1.688e+63 Joules (4-A)
Dream Stone: 1.688e+63 * 100,000 = 1.688e+68 Joules (3-C)

If individual dreams are accepted to contain galaxies, then at minimum:

Dreams: 1.053e+66 Joules (3-C) [baseline Galaxy level]
Dream Stone: 1.053e+71 Joules (3-B)
 
I suppose for a small review of where things currently stand:

Dreams = 4A
Dream Depot = L2C
Dream Stone = 4A * 10,000
Void = 2C (11 Universes)
I'm already working on a cosmology blog going over the number of actual universes that are in the Super Mario Bros series, so I'll probably propose a higher tier in a future thread if the number's in the thousands.
As far as AP values for individual dreams and the Dream Stone go:

Dreams: 1.688e+63 Joules (4-A)
Dream Stone: 1.688e+63 * 100,000 = 1.688e+68 Joules (3-C)

If individual dreams are accepted to contain galaxies, then at minimum:

Dreams: 1.053e+66 Joules (3-C) [baseline Galaxy level]
Dream Stone: 1.053e+71 Joules (3-B)
I still do genuinely believe the dreams can at least be the size of galaxies when taking into account the things that could make them bigger than a starry sky, so I suppose I'll also make another blog going over how big these dreams can potentially be.
 
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As far as AP values for individual dreams and the Dream Stone go:

Dreams: 1.688e+63 Joules (4-A)
Dream Stone: 1.688e+63 * 100,000 = 1.688e+68 Joules (3-C)

If individual dreams are accepted to contain galaxies, then at minimum:

Dreams: 1.053e+66 Joules (3-C) [baseline Galaxy level]
Dream Stone: 1.053e+71 Joules (3-B)
Nice :) , I wondered if 3C was possible, guess so

Adjusted my post to account for that. Any dream team god tiers (besides base antasma, who would be 4A through individual dream consumption) would be 3C then.
 
I've only looked through the OP and the first page of this thread. Honestly, while authors usually pick out what definition they want for the term "world," being a fan of the Mario series, I can outright say that the term "world" is highly spitballed throughout the series. Without context, the average joe would just assume the term "world" as a substitute for "planet" for all we know.

In Super Paper Mario, "worlds" are obviously entirely separate universe, yet in Super Mario Bros Wonder, Bowser clearly differentiates "world" from "universe," meaning "world" would just be the planet Mario and the gang is standing on. Here, in Dream Team? Like the OP said, not much real context was given beyond dreams being individual worlds, but in that game, the term "world" was basically just spitballed, so it's better to go off of 4-A assumptions.

As such, I think it would be in my best interest to agree with this CRT.
 
As far as AP values for individual dreams and the Dream Stone go:

Dreams: 1.688e+63 Joules (4-A)
Dream Stone: 1.688e+63 * 100,000 = 1.688e+68 Joules (3-C)

If individual dreams are accepted to contain galaxies, then at minimum:

Dreams: 1.053e+66 Joules (3-C) [baseline Galaxy level]
Dream Stone: 1.053e+71 Joules (3-B)
Actually, if you multiplied the starry sky calculation based on the ten locations in the Dream World, assumed they were all starry skies, and multiplied it by 100,000, you'd get 1.688e69, which is Multi-Galaxy level. So, this could very well make the Dream Stone 3-B .

I suggest "At least 3-C, likely 3-B" since this will give us Multi-Galaxy level.
 
I don’t get what JT is proposing, is he saying to use the calc for 2 starry skies getting destroyed and then to calc stack it? I don’t get the logic behind that.

Again, the calc for starry skies getting destroyed wouldn’t apply here. It’s for them getting destroyed in an explosion. I don’t recall a dream ever being traditionally destroyed at any point in any of the Dream based games. All they’re doing is being absorbed into the Dream stone, which isn’t destroying them by any means, just powering it.
 
I don’t get what JT is proposing, is he saying to use the calc for 2 starry skies getting destroyed and then to calc stack it? I don’t get the logic behind that.

Again, the calc for starry skies getting destroyed wouldn’t apply here. It’s for them getting destroyed in an explosion. I don’t recall a dream ever being traditionally destroyed at any point in any of the Dream based games. All they’re doing is being absorbed into the Dream stone, which isn’t destroying them by any means, just powering it.
I'm saying what if there's 10 starry skies in these dreams and we use that number and multiply it by the population of 100,000 since the Dream World should be comparable in size to these dreams?
 
Other than JT, does anyone else disagree?
Respectfully, I do still disagree with these downgrades; I'm just trying to propose something higher than Galaxy level if these changes ever pass (which I hope they don't; no offense, Kirb and Fuji).
 
I don’t get what JT is proposing, is he saying to use the calc for 2 starry skies getting destroyed and then to calc stack it? I don’t get the logic behind that.

Again, the calc for starry skies getting destroyed wouldn’t apply here. It’s for them getting destroyed in an explosion. I don’t recall a dream ever being traditionally destroyed at any point in any of the Dream based games. All they’re doing is being absorbed into the Dream stone, which isn’t destroying them by any means, just powering it.
Other than JT, does anyone else disagree?
Oh, and please... you can all call me Joe... or Joey, Joseph, and Jojo; any is fine, but preferably Joe. The JT stands for Joe The; I used to be an avid gamer and that's my Steam name, but those days are behind me since YouTube killed my motivation to make gaming content.
 
Okay, what are the conclusions here?
The general consensus is that dreams are not universes. There seems to be some debate over what tier they should be, but I think 4-A seems to be the most commonly accepted end?

As a result of this, the Dream Stone and those who scale to it would be 3-C, and the Void and those who scale to it would be 2-C (11 universes).
 
Could we hold off on conclusions for a bit, please? DDM and Star (supposedly) have a counter to this, and I think it best to hear them out before regarding this as an open and shut case.
 
Could we hold off on conclusions for a bit, please? DDM and Star (supposedly) have a counter to this, and I think it best to hear them out before regarding this as an open and shut case.
I'm aware, just summing up the current state of things for Deagon.
 
You don't need to make your disagreement known at every opportunity. You've made it clear enough as is, and I'd rather the thread doesn't get clogged up
 
I mean we had different reasoning for the Dream stone than here lol
You don't need to make your disagreement known at every opportunity. You've made it clear enough as is, and I'd rather the thread doesn't get clogged up
I know.
Actually, if you multiplied the starry sky calculation based on the ten locations in the Dream World, assumed they were all starry skies, and multiplied it by 100,000, you'd get 1.688e69, which is Multi-Galaxy level. So, this could very well make the Dream Stone 3-B .

I suggest "At least 3-C, likely 3-B" since this will give us Multi-Galaxy level.
I'm saying what if there's 10 starry skies in these dreams and we use that number and multiply it by the population of 100,000 since the Dream World should be comparable in size to these dreams?
Is there a reason you don't support this method?
 
Well for starters, those calculations would be based on unproven assumptions, so that's probably why.
You're telling me for this downgrade that every dream is the size of a starry sky and is comparable to the Future Dream and the Dream World which has ten locations with their starry sky based upon all of them being comparable in size to a location with one and you're saying it's based on unproven assumptions?
 
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You're assuming that every dream is a starry sky and is comparable to the Dream World which has ten locations with their own starry sky based upon all of them being comparable in size to a location with one and you're saying it's based on unproven assumptions?
Why can't they be the same starry sky and not just the same starry sky seen from a different location, as these are all locations in the same realm? Or, if the locations aren't in the same realm, there would be no reason to add the starry skies together to begin with. Either way, this logic doesn't work.
 
Why can't they be the same starry sky and not just the same starry sky seen from a different location, as these are all locations in the same realm? Or, if the locations aren't in the same realm, there would be no reason to add the starry skies together to begin with
What difference does it make? The Dream World is an entire dream, and one realm in it has a starry sky with all the other nine being comparable in size to it. Therefore, the Dream World should have ten locations with starry skies in it.
 
What difference does it make? The Dream World is an entire dream, and one realm in it has a starry sky with all the other nine being comparable in size to it. Therefore, the Dream World should have ten locations with starry skies in it.
That doesn't answer my question. If these dreams are part of the same realm, what proves that these are completely separate starry skies and not the same sky seen from a different location? And if they aren't part of the same realm, why would we even add the results together in the first place?
 
That doesn't answer my question. If these dreams are part of the same realm, what proves that these are completely separate starry skies and not the same sky seen from a different location? And if they aren't part of the same realm, why would we even add the results together in the first place?
Dreamy Wakeport, Dreamy Driftwood Shore, and Dreamy Mushrise Park to name a few all have their starry sky-like backgrounds in the Dream World. That should make every other location in the Dream World the size of those three making the entire Dream World the size of ten starry skies and/or contain ten starry skies.
 
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