Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

[Vizer04]

Bump, I edited the original post and removed trunks' 2x multiplier.

So, i guess now we only have to find a solution for the Ginyu scaling and the Shin scaling

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So, i guess now we only have to find a solution for the Ginyu scaling and the Shin scaling

Well... What I presented in my previous comment isn't good enough? "at least 59 Zettatons, likely 79.2 Zettatons"?

They do scale far higher than 59 Zettatons KKx3 Goku, and close enough to 79, so...

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Pretty sure that going by official power levels, the Ginyu Force scale above Kaioken times 4 Goku, since if I recall correcctly Vegeta had a power level of 30000 when he fought them, and they destroyed him with zero effort

Kaioken times 4 Goku had a power of 32000

 

[Kulf_Boba]

I found something to add to DB's blog, Goku pointed out that even a x5 Kaio-ken would not work on Ozaru Vegeta, so his power must be at least above 40000.

So everyone with power above 40000 has an AP of 99 Zettatons.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I found something to add to DB's blog, Goku pointed out that even a x5 Kaio-ken would not work on Ozaru Vegeta, so his power must be at least above 40000.

So everyone with power above 40000 has an AP of 99 Zettatons.

Can you show the scan?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Can you show the scan?

Chapter 233; Page 11; Panel 03
Goku: “Even if I raise the Kaiō-Ken to x5, it still won’t have any effect on him!!!!”

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I found something to add to DB's blog, Goku pointed out that even a x5 Kaio-ken would not work on Ozaru Vegeta, so his power must be at least above 40000.

So everyone with power above 40000 has an AP of 99 Zettatons.

That doesn't mean much, oozaru vegeta's power level is 180000 and we don't know if pls are linear in this part of the story.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Also, we don't use kaioken to directly multiply power levels, otherwise, Kaioken x10 Pre-Zenkai Goku would be stronger than First Form Freeza.

While Ozaru Vegeta is 99 Zettatons, no one else is because Ozaru Vegeta has no stated power level

(Also, pretty sure Ozaru Vegeta is 10x baseline planet level already)

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That doesn't mean much, oozaru vegeta's power level is 180000 and we don't know if pls are linear in this part of the story.

He lost a lot of his power during the battle, and by creating his artificial moon, therefore it wouldn't be the full 180000 (If it was in the first place)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He lost a lot of his power during the battle, and by creating his artificial moon, therefore it wouldn't be the full 180000 (If it was in the first place)

What... I just tried to fix a typo but ended up making a buu saga thread into a namek one.
Well I guess I'll have to wait for the gotenks scaling to be reviewed, I am neutral on scaling with oozaru vegeta.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What... I just tried to fix a typo but ended up making a buu saga thread into a namek one.
Well I guess I'll have to wait for the gotenks scaling to be reviewed, I am neutral on scaling with oozaru vegeta.

I mean, the scaling getting accepted means we have to accept Kaioken directly multiplying Power Levels, which we... don't currently accept. Apparently we're not even done with the Ginyu's Scaling, somehow.

 

[KLOL506]

If we disregard the 2x Future Trunks thing, then Future Trunks, Future Gohan, Future Goku and Yardrat Goku would scale to 244.5 tenatons.

Base Saiyans or SSJ Saiyans?

Future 17/18 and Present 17/18 will scale to 489 tenatons.

Also, is there any explicit statement that the Androids individually are twice as strong as a Super Saiyan or that each Android has a power level exceeding that of Vegeta and Goku combined? Or that any of the lower Androids were as strong as a Super Saiyan and 17/18 on their own are twice as strong as said lower Android?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Base Saiyans or SSJ Saiyans?

Super Saiyans

Also, is there any explicit statement that the Androids individually are twice as strong as a Super Saiyan or that each Android has a power level exceeding that of Vegeta and Goku combined? Or that any of the lower Androids were as strong as a Super Saiyan and 17/18 on their own are twice as strong as said lower Android?

Yes. Future Android 17 stated that he used less than 50% of his power against SSJ Future Gohan in their previous battle (before Gohan lost his arm).

SSJ Future Trunks by the time he came back in time was stated to still not be as strong as SSJ Gohan. Trunks then killed Mecha Frieza with ease, who was confident in his ability to kill SSJ Goku

Basically: 50% Android 17 >> SSJ Future Gohan > SSJ Future Trunks >> Mecha Frieza > Frieza Saga SSJ Goku

 

[KLOL506]

Super Saiyans

Yes. Future Android 17 stated that he used less than 50% of his power against SSJ Future Gohan in their previous battle (before Gohan lost his arm).

Can I see the scan?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Can I see the scan?

There you go

 

[KLOL506]

There you go

Awesome.

Any showings that base level Goku in the Cell Saga is comparable to or stronger than said Androids? I know Kamiccolo was keeping up quite well with 17.

 

[Stefano4444]

There you go

Should this be apply to Android 17's speed?

 

[KLOL506]

Should this be apply to Android 17's speed?

ooooooooooooh boi

Now comes the fun part.

 

[KLOL506]

Wait, if SSJ Trunks could hold his own against Future Android 17/18 decently, wouldn't he be 489 tenatons of TNT instead of being 244.5?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Awesome.

Any showings that base level Goku in the Cell Saga is comparable to or stronger than said Androids? I know Kamiccolo was keeping up quite well with 17.

As of now I didn't find any, but there's Trunks knocking back Imperfect Cell with just his Base form alone after the Cell Games (though that might be anime only)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If anyone wanted another supporting scan for 4-B SPC, then here you go

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wait, if SSJ Trunks could hold his own against Future Android 17/18 decently, wouldn't he be 489 tenatons of TNT instead of being 244.5?

He could fight them, but even Gohan, who was stronger than Trunks, was beaten by less than half of Android 17's power

I don't think Trunks should scale to Future 17's full power, even after the 3 years time skip, since we don't know how strong he was after that

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Should this be apply to Android 17's speed?

Yes, for the same reason the increase from 50% Frieza to 100% Frieza doubles his speed

 

[KLOL506]

If anyone wanted another supporting scan for 4-B SPC, then here you go

That's already in the 4-B blog for Cell tho LMFAO

also you messed up the link, here you go

 

[Stefano4444]

Yes, for the same reason the increase from 50% Frieza to 100% Frieza doubles his speed.

Exactly, if its fine for 100% Frieza to be 2 times faster than 50% Frieza, then the same should be apply with Android 17.

Same case with Cell Saga SS1 4th Grade Goku, if we assume that he its already superior than Cell Saga Piccolo and Vegeta with only half of his power.

EDIT:

Also Cell Saga SSj2 Gohan too, as Cell Saga SSj2 Gohan with 1/2 of his power => Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > Cell Saga SSj1 4th Grade Goku.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's already in the 4-B blog for Cell tho LMFAO

also you messed up the link, here you go

Oh lol. Well then it doesn't matter anyways

 

[KLOL506]

Exactly, if its fine for 100% Frieza to be 2 times faster than 50% Frieza, then the same should be apply with Android 17.

Same case with Cell Saga SS1 4th Grade Goku, if we assume that he its already superior than Cell Saga Piccolo and Vegeta with only half of his power.

EDIT:

Also Cell Saga SSj2 Gohan too, as Cell Saga SSj2 Gohan with 1/2 of his power => Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > Cell Saga SSj1 4th Grade Goku.

Aight. I can live with that.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I remember things like 2x o creases in power for example don't apply to speed for some reason, they said speed does increase but not the same amount as power so it's unquantifiable, but it's weird that frieza's speed does increase when using higher percentages just the same as his power, good point.

 

[KLOL506]

I remember things like 2x o creases in power for example don't apply to speed for some reason, they said speed does increase but not the same amount as power so it's unquantifiable, but it's weird that frieza's speed does increase when using higher percentages just the same as his power, good point.

Nope, power and speed go hand-in-hand in Dragon Ball, higher your Ki/power level, the higher your physical statistics (Punching power, speed, durability, all increased proportionally alongside your Ki level), check this CRT out where we found all the evidence for it.

It's why both the Kaio-Ken and SSJ1 multipliers apply to both AP and speed, something as simple as stating "using half my power" would be just as valid, if not more valid.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Awesome.

Any showings that base level Goku in the Cell Saga is comparable to or stronger than said Androids? I know Kamiccolo was keeping up quite well with 17.

In these panels, Base Future Trunks attacks Imperfect Cell before he can even react, and after that Cell admit that he's impressed by Trunks' power

And keep in mind ALL of this happens before Trunks turns SSJ

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Nope, power and speed go hand-in-hand in Dragon Ball, higher your Ki/power level, the higher your physical statistics (Punching power, speed, durability, all increased proportionally alongside your Ki level), check this CRT out where we found all the evidence for it.

That's what I thought too, well if that's accepted and applied, I will edit the speed ratings along with the AP ratings, this will massively upgrade the speed.

In these panels, Base Future Trunks attacks Imperfect Cell before he can even react, and after that Cell admit that he's impressed by Trunks' power

And keep in mind ALL of this happens before Trunks turns SSJ

I know about this already, unfortunately nobody would scale to this trunks.

 

[KLOL506]

BTW, 489 tenatons is Star level+, Star level+ starts at 448.291 tenatons, it's the average mean of the total combined value of 136.066 tenatons and 760.516 tenatons.

 

[KLOL506]

That's what I thought too, well if that's accepted and applied, I will edit the speed ratings along with the AP ratings, this will massively upgrade the speed.

CRT's been accepted for a couple weeks now, nobody applied it yet tho.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I know about this already, unfortunately nobody would scale to this trunks.

Goku and Gohan will scale. There's nothing that suggest Trunks became incomparably stronger since the Cell Games, especially with how easily Trunks killed both of them

Besides, if Trunks would've surpassed Goku when he fought Cell, he would probably mention it

 

[Stefano4444]

In these panels, Base Future Trunks attacks Imperfect Cell before he can even react, and after that Cell admit that he's impressed by Trunks' power

But this Cell didn't absorb any humans like the one who easily overpower Post-Merged Piccolo and Android 17.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

But this Cell didn't absorb any humans like the one who easily overpower Post-Merged Piccolo and Android 17.

Cell stated just before then that Trunks supposedly isn't even strong enough to defeat the Androids, let alone him, implying Cell is stronger than them

Also, the Future Androids are much weaker than their present counterparts, so being weaker than the present Androids doesn't mean much when he compares his power to the Future Androids

 

[Stefano4444]

Cell stated just before then that Trunks supposedly isn't even strong enough to defeat the Androids, let alone him, implying Cell is stronger than them

So we can assume that Cell Saga Base Future Trunks => Imperfect Cell > Future Android 17 > Android Saga SSj1 Future Trunks > Frieza 100%?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So we can assume that Cell Saga Base Future Trunks => Imperfect Cell > Future Android 17 > Android Saga SSj1 Future Trunks > Frieza 100%?

Yeah.

Base Cell Saga Future Trunks >= Future Imperfect Cell > Future Android 17 = 2 * 50% Android 17 >> SSJ Future Gohan > Android Saga SSJ Future Trunks >> Mecha Frieza > SSJ Goku = 244.5 Tenatons

 

[Nierre]

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?