why wouldn’t it exactly?
Did we ever see the full extension of hell in the movie? Did we ever saw it extending theough all the cloud layer? Because that would be the only way for it to be used to say that it is as big as it
the lower layer of hell literally extends just as far as the afterlife, it makes no sense to be less than uni in size, and why can't there just be a second cloud layer beyond the portal from hell?
Says who? As explained, since they are separated space times you can't use the "it is bellow the cloud layer extendending all bellow it" argument, since space times are completely separated from one another spatialy and timely, as such, hell is impossible to be bellow the layer of clouds without not being a space time, you can't have your cake and eat it too
it makes no sense because? I have explained why non universal in size works just as good
Even if there is(you would need to prove that) it still doesn't help to prove hell's size, since it would be as big as hell in this case and not as big as the afterlife's, which still lead us with the same problem of not knowing its size
if hell is below the cloud layer, it cannot be a separate spacetime is just flawed IMO. The idea that separate spacetimes cannot intersect or be connected in any way is not necessarily true. In theories of physics, such as string theory or multiverse theories, there can be instances of overlapping or interconnected regions between different spacetimes.
Again, for our tiering purposes this is how it works, a space time cannot be physically connected to another, as you pointed out, this i a wiki "problem" as you put it, so unless you make a thread to change the space time standards, we can't do much here
Wait if the afterlife is accepted to be Universal in size than heaven and hell should be as well. if the afterlife, as a whole, is the size of the universe then its individual components, such as heaven and hell, would reflect the same scale.
Yes, it has always been the size of the Universe, but now it will have a calculation to be bigger and if it is accepted, all kingdoms will have the Universal size inside.
Than the realms omgea want to downgrade should be irrelevent. Hell, demon realm, Gogeta vs Broly dimension. Only the kaioshen realm makes sense for a downgrade. Since the afterlife is being calced bigger than the universe than those realms are not only baseline 3-A
hell is not a "component" in the afterlife, it is another space time, as such it is not physically conected to the afterlife as explained multiple times here, heaven is in the afterlife and it is accepted as universal in size, which makes the afterlife bigger than the living universe, hell however is not in virtue of being an alternate space time, so the afterlife size is not relevant at all to hell since hell is not part of it, at least, not spatio temporrally speaking
If this topic passes soon there will be another one, I'll update mine and refute this thing here.
the only realms that would receive an upgrade with the calc are the kaioshin realm(since it is stated to be 1/10 of the afterlife and living universe size) and the afterlife itself, all the others do not have anything to do with the afterlife for its size to matter to then, plus the demon realm is explicitly stated to be small
Wait you think I am an agreement with hell being a different spacetime? I just disagree with the idea of those realms not being Universe size which is not true.
okay then, so you suggest that hell is not a separated space time but physically connected with the afterlife?
I read the demon realm scan from the daizenshuu, It could honestly be interpertated as a different Universe than the living World."a world in a dimension on the other side of the universe" suggests that there is another world located in a different dimension, specifically on the other side of the universe. This would involve fundamental differences in physical laws, properties, or characteristics. Which make sense since the guide explain the realm doesn't work the same way as the living world. I believe the small statement is kind of recton tbh
Eh Prob will think bout it
don't forget this part of the op:
That's referring to the macrocosom by "universe". the statement you provided doesn't even disprove the possibility of the Demon Realm being universe-sized. It simply suggests that the Demon Realm is relatively small compared to the larger universes
nope, as per the complementary information of the other guides, "universe" means the living universe, since that is where the demon realm is said to be in
"The Demon Realm is located in the universe, but its scale is very small, the size of a hideout for mages. " it is said to be of the size of a hideout, and to be very small in comparison to the universe, that and plus nothing ever stating that it is of the size of a universe
You didn't address my point that the statement you send doesn't disprove the possibility of the Demon Realm being universe-sized. You focused on the aspect of the statement mentioning the small scale and size of the Demon Realm compared to the universe.
I'm sorry what? I am confused what you mean by "Living Universe" Because the living World is the afterlife, the top half is outer space while the the bottom half is the Demon Realm. Also Universe can still be Interpertated as ''Macrocosm" here since the demon realm does exist in the macrocosm. And also Universe doesn't always mean the living Universe.
how does that prove that it is universal in size? again, even if there is a cloud layer in hell, that still doesn't prove that it is universal in size, hell's cloud layer would be as big as however big hell is, this was already covered
1 the point is that there is nothing saying that it is universal in size even if it is another dimension, which it is still nebulous if it is
no, i focused on the part where the specific size is given, that being of a hideout
no, the living universe is the normal universe where goku lives, the bottom part where there is galaxies and whatnot, this is what it is called, "living universe" in contrast to the "realm of the dead" or "afterlife"
you ignored the part where i explained why it is saying "living universe" in this context
read the op again in the demon realm part, guides states that the demon realm is in the living universe, so we can associate that this is what akira is refering to, you said yourself "Also Universe can still be Interpertated" "And also Universe doesn't always mean the living Universe", the possibility of it being said in reference to the entire macrocosm is only a possibility, the other possibility however, the one where it is talking about the living universe, is corroborated by guides, therefore it is the more likely one
The size of a hideout is a subjective measurement and can vary depending on the context. "size" can have different interpretations. It can refer to physical dimensions, spatial extent, or even the population or scope of a particular realm. Therefore, it is possible that the statement referring to the demon realm as the size of a hideout may not necessarily imply smallness in a spatial sense, but could be highlighting other aspects such as its confined nature or limited occupancy.
Still would prove my point on not addressing what I said.
Even then if the Universe = Living Universe, we cannot definitively conclude that the demon realm is not the same size as the universe based on that statement alone. you are asserting that the demon realm is not the same size as the universe based on the statement that it is described as the size of a hideout for mages. However, you are drawing a conclusion from a lack of evidence.
Drawing a conclusion from a single statement without considering other relevant factors, context, or supporting evidence can lead to hasty or inaccurate conclusions.
any proof that it is meaning those instead of the direct meaning simpler meaning?
"it is possible" do you have any evidence that it is in this case? you are assuming with no base or evidence to not take the statement directly, if you are saying that the demon realm is universal in size then show proof of it
we have evidence, it is called to be small, and to be the size of a hideout, and we have no statement or proof that it is universal in size whatsoever, so if you are going to respond again, i suggest please showing proof that it is universal in size, because all you have been doing is saying "well it could mean this" "it doesn't take away the possibility of this", without showing evidence or reason for the realm to be universal in size, this is the point of this thread, it doesn't have a statement for it to be universal in size, therefore we can't assume that it is, the other stuff for it is just the nail in the coffin
Do you know how big this "hideout" supposedly is?
It's all up to interpertation here buddy but again your reasons follows Akira point without understanding how words are simply subjective
This is fiction, it being called small is just subjective and even hideout doesn't prove anything. You do realize words are subjective and can mean anything? matter of fact, do you have any evidence of the size of the hide out? Because a hide out can have any size. "The Demon Realm is located in the universe, but its scale is very small, the size of a hideout for mages" can be interpreted in different ways. The comparison to a "hideout" suggests that the Demon Realm is relatively small in scale compared to the larger universe. However, the exact size of the hideout or the Demon Realm is not specified." This discussion end right here if theres evidence for the size of the hideout
Why Kaiōshin Realm?
Apperently there was a calc towards the afterlife bing bigger than the Universe so its getting upgrade
Well, not an exact size, but according to akira it is a very small one, but i think we are losing the purpose here, i will concede on the hideout part since it is a minor part of the point anyway
Considering that he is saying that it is small in comparison to the universe, i would say that saying that it is smaller than the universe is very blatant
don't separate the phrase, it is said to be small in comparison to the universe, and it doesn't have universal statements, so it isn't universal in size, this is the important part of the point
Ok i will drop the hideout part, still doesn't have proof that it is universal in size tho, with it even being called "small" in comparison to the living universe where it is in, this is the important part of the point
Isn't it stated to be a reverse of the living universe as well as having its own quadrants? Baseline uni should be the bare minimum assumption.
Yes it has multiple spaces which splits
Covered in the op
, it is said to be separated by cardinal direactions like the living universe, but everything has cardinal directions and can be selarated as such, it is definetely not a proof of size
"it is a world confirmed to be in the Living World."
Which is what the entire macrocosm of db is, in this case we have comfirmation that it is inside the living universe with a translation that says that it is a "world", this at least shows that it is a minor dimension as part of the living universe instead of a full one like the afterlife and the kaioshin realm
