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Called a universe:
f9eb423d3149520b32a621ce8e84e08f.jpg

Called a different dimension:

unknown.png

Herms' translation:
4a1d0654657f92577ba6678831fa20af.png

Literal wording: 異次元 "different dimension"
Could you make a CRT to be accepted as Universal size and being a different spacetime?
 
Gt showed that it is, and Toei. A portal opens to get to it, you can't go by normal means.
The portal connected Hell/Afterlife with the Living World, it doesn't prove that Hell has it own separated space-time compare to the Afterlife.
 
The portal connected Hell/Afterlife with the Living World, it doesn't prove that Hell has it own separated space-time compare to the Afterlife.
why? you can only get there and back with a non conventional means of travel, like the stair case that leads to yemmas desk lol, or the portal that was opened in gt and in toei, what implies they are physically connected?
 
One contention I can see already is the roof that both Goku and Pikkon hit to draw. But if you get over that you may actually have an extremely good speed feat for Pikkon and Goku as well as a bigger feat for SSJ3 Goku's Afterlife Shake.
ah i see, what is that?
 
Anyways again we come down to there being 5 Universes for each Macro and potentially 6 (AND NOW 7) the size of the Afterlife calc is merely only supporting evidence and will give speed feats if anything for Toei.

We should conclude this at 5 Universes OVERHAUL THE MESS OUT OF THE DRAGON BALL PAGE SINCE ITS COMPLETELY DATED and add a scaling chain to show who scales to 4/5/10/90 Universes.
Yes according to article 3 section 9 paragraph 1351 of the official rulebook the "Stadium Ceiling is the same as the Stadium Floor"
 
why? you can only get there and back with a non conventional means of travel, like the stair case that leads to yemmas desk lol, or the portal that was opened in gt and in toei, what implies they are physically connected?
While its never directly stated it likely because of the special yellow clouds so to prevent evil people to cause problems to the rest of the Afterlife.

Also the fact that Pikkon and Goku could physically fly from the Grand Kai Planet show that Hell physically exist within the Afterlife.
 
Were gonna have to come to a stance on hell, even if we don't accept it here. Theres still afterlife, living realm, DOSL, kaioshin realm, east kaio realm, demon realm. I still think hell is a different dimension, but i want to know what others think.
 
Honestly ... I could have swore we already tackled this on Page 2 and DDM already agrees with everything save the Demon Realm but now apparently that's been rectified now so it scales. Honestly Hell has more going for it than the demon realm but if anything we have 5 Universes already squared away. I think someones gonna need to make a cosmology blog and it aint me lol
 
Honestly ... I could have swore we already tackled this on Page 2 and DDM already agrees with everything save the Demon Realm but now apparently that's been rectified now so it scales. Honestly Hell has more going for it than the demon realm but if anything we have 5 Universes already squared away. I think someones gonna need to make a cosmology blog and it aint me lol
DDM said that it was agreed upon by him and many other staff that parts of the macrocosm map are usable, and with the evidence brought forth that hell is a different spacetime, i think its evident that it is universal in size for being bigger than heaven
 
i kindly ask for people to stop derailing this thread with talk about the grand kai dimension or whatever, it is derail making the thread bigger than it needs to be, so please stop and focus on the points in the op



it has the same cardinal axis as the living realm so i think its valid.
It is said to be separated in spatial areas, it is not said to have the same as the living world
Only hell could be contentious, but i can't see any other size less than universal, it could just have another cloud layer below it.
If you could bring arguments for the universal size it would be pretty good

why? you can only get there and back with a non conventional means of travel, like the stair case that leads to yemmas desk lol, or the portal that was opened in gt and in toei, what implies they are physically connected?
Tbh. Being separated spatially is not automatic proof of space time, only the dimensional barrier is making them separated space times

Honestly ... I could have swore we already tackled this on Page 2 and DDM already agrees with everything save the Demon Realm
No? DDM has given no opinion on any dimensions on the OP outside of the kaioshin realm, he never agreed or mentioned any of the other realms like the DOSL in this thread at all, stop talking for him please

but now apparently that's been rectified now so it scales.
No it hasn't? Again, the op covers the "reverse of the universe" point and we have staff that agreed with the removal of it, we have to wait for more staff




DDM said that it was agreed upon by him and many other staff that parts of the macrocosm map are usable
It was in the past, but as i have linked numerous times here already, another thread removed that and now the map is not usable for any sizes at all, idk why you are all ignoring an accepted in place of what DDM said, he is simply wrong here, the proposition the earlier thread was to completely remove the map from any scaling in size, and that got accepted by @Maverick_Zero_X
@Damage3245
@Theglassman12
and @LordGriffin1000

i have linked the thread already in the op and multiple times here in the thread, DDM is simply mistaken here
for good measure here it is again: https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-universe-crt.150545/

if you want to say "but ddm said that.." well damage agreed that it isn't in scale, so did maverick, they have the same position and evaluation rights as ddm if you want to go by rank

and with the evidence brought forth that hell is a different spacetime, i think its evident that it is universal in size for being bigger than heaven
If you want to use the map to scale size than heaven is smaller than the living universe, which would also make hell smaller than the universe

we dont know what "small" means
Yes we do, in comparison to the universe it called "very small" so it being extremely universal big is out of the question, plus the only possible universal statement i have also covered in the op, that statement is simply talking about the aesthetic appearence of it, nothing more
 
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So far

Afterlife Size+ Spacetime = Accepted

Kaio realm Size + Spacetime = Accepted

Living World Size + Spacetime = Accepted

Hell Size+Spacetime = Size under dispute

DoSL Size+ Spacetime = Size and spacetime under dispute

Can all the relevant evidence pertaining to those other two be summed up and reposted?

imo the gogeta guide statements of him Lightning up hell with a bigbang level explosion, janemba merging spacetimes making hell visible and showing that hell extends as far as the cloud layer of the afterlife, the cloud layer themselves being shown as spacetime boundaries in GT and Goku being unable to teleport into Emma station in GT from hell are sufficient evidence for hell imo.

I don’t know much about DSOL but it’s quite literally only reached by exceeding the limits of the universe, making it a spacetime outside either one or two macrocosms and is unmistakably not any of the other dimensions we know exist inside of them ( Kaio/living/hell/afterlife/demon/ RoSAT/ suguroKu/ etc)
 
Goku being unable to teleport into Emma station in GT from hell are sufficient evidence for hell imo.
IT for work requid the user to sense Ki, in Cell Saga Goku couldn't reach New Namek from Earth for the same reason and he needed help from King Kai, that doesn't prove that Hell its a separate space-time.
 
So far

Afterlife Size+ Spacetime = Accepted
This was not part of the op to be rejected in the first place

Kaio realm Size + Spacetime = Accepted
We don't have enough staff aproval for anything to be rejected or aproved in the first place

Living World Size + Spacetime = Accepted
Also was not part of the op in the first place to be rejected

Hell Size+Spacetime = Size under dispute

DoSL Size+ Spacetime = Size and spacetime under dispute

Can all the relevant evidence pertaining to those other two be summed up and reposted?

imo the gogeta guide statements of him Lightning up hell with a bigbang level explosion
this proves what exactly?

janemba merging spacetimes making hell visible and showing that hell extends as far as the cloud layer of the afterlife
this is not shown at all

the cloud layer themselves being shown as spacetime boundaries in GT
The cloud layer is not shown to be that, the aegument in the other thread was merely that all the dimensions would be separated space times since the dimensional walls are the fabric of space time
plus i have no idea why you guys are trying to prove that something is a sel
parated space time when this thread is purely about size
and Goku being unable to teleport into Emma station in GT from hell are sufficient evidence for hell imo.
again, this thread is purely about size
I don’t know much about DSOL but it’s quite literally only reached by exceeding the limits of the universe, making it a spacetime outside either one or two macrocosms and is unmistakably not any of the other dimensions we know exist inside of them ( Kaio/living/hell/afterlife/demon/ RoSAT/ suguroKu/ etc)
Again, why are you trying to prove that it is a space time when this thread is not trying to change that?
 
You mean agreed as in it stays as a universal space time or an agree as it is agreed that it doesn't not qualify, because the former has more agrees
agreed to have it stay as a universal spacetime, so i think kaioshin realm and DOSL should stay as universal in size, so we would end up with 4, not many people are speaking of their thoughts on hell, and the demon realm. But do you agree with DOSL omega?
 
agreed to have it stay as a universal spacetime, so i think kaioshin realm and DOSL should stay as universal in size, so we would end up with 4, not many people are speaking of their thoughts on hell, and the demon realm. But do you agree with DOSL omega?
No, i still stand by what i wrotte on the op
 
IT for work requid the user to sense Ki, in Cell Saga Goku couldn't reach New Namek from Earth for the same reason and he needed help from King Kai, that doesn't prove that Hell its a separate space-time.

Hell was inescapable to Goku in general and could only escape with Piccolo and Dendes help, Even if Emma’s palace has no strong readings there should still be earth and grand Kai’s planet and Kaioshin realm as locations he has shown to be able to lock on to from the rest of the afterlife.
 
Hell was inescapable to Goku in general and could only escape with Piccolo and Dendes help, Even if Emma’s palace has no strong readings there should still be earth and grand Kai’s planet and Kaioshin realm as locations he has shown to be able to lock on to from the rest of the afterlife.
Either its a plothole or Goku was simply too far for the IT to work.

After all for what we know the dimensional portal was located in a very obscured and distant part of Hell so that nobody could find out what was going on.
 
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Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB(Demon Realm), @TiltedFN(Demon Realm), @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202(Demon Realm), @TheGreatBanana(Demon Realm), @CloverDragon03(Demon Realm), @Matrixxxx(Demon Realm) @LuffyRuffy46307(Demon Realm), @SSJGeminiJJ(Demon Realm),
@Hasty12345(Demon Realm), @Vietthai96(Demon Realm) @LordGriffin1000 (Demon Realm)


Neutrals:
@DarkDragonMedeus,
need more input from them to understand his position

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):

@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z
 
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Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB, @TiltedFN, @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202, @TheGreatBanana

4 Universes (the removal of both Hell and the Demon Realm):
@LuffyRuffy46307,@LordGriffin1000, @Matrixxxx

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):
@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @Hasty12345, @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z
Huh, and organized too, how good, i will writte in the op the specifications of what everyone, specially the staff, agreed with, i will need yo get to my pc first tho
 
Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB, @TiltedFN, @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202, @TheGreatBanana

4 Universes (the removal of both Hell and the Demon Realm):
@LuffyRuffy46307,@LordGriffin1000, @Matrixxxx

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):
@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @Hasty12345, @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z
 
Another thing about the Swirling Lights that has border me, if it requid strength on the caliber of Gogeta SSjB and Broly SSj to affect such dimension, does make sense to assume that SSjG Goku and a heavenly supressed Beerus where going to destroy it in their clash?
 
It doesn’t, we already went over this in omegas thread, DOSL is not mapped within the macrocosm of either universe so the most legitimate assumption that doesn’t break scaling is it being an extra dimension outside the macrocosm giving +1 space time to characters who sit on SSJ Gogeta and Brolys level 2 in addition to 2 macrocosms they already scale above.

But that’s for another thread, I think current discussion is about wether or not all the dimensions are space times.

My final position is that demon realm should be gone.
 
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I'm in favor of 5 space-times. Remove only the Demon Realm
Just to clarify, thia thread is about the size of the realms, outside of the demon realm, it is not really trying to disprove that they are space times

If you already knew that, you can ignore this
 
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