Dragon Ball Super: [MASSIVE UPGRADE]

[Vizer04]

[Post-ToP Humans]

All the "human" Z Fighters should be upgraded to 3-B (Multi-Galaxy level) under this reasoning:

As you can see, Goten and Trunks can fight the seven Cell Jr. evenly.

The Cell Jr. has been training with 17 all this time and therefore, they should have increased their power level like he did. They should be at bare minimum 3-B (Multi-Galaxy level), and Goten and Trunks could fight with them on equal terms.

Tien Shinhan, Krillin and Master Roshi were chosed for the Tournament of Power over the kids, so they shouldn't be overwhelmingly weaker or else Goten and Trunks would have been chosed instead.

Conclusion

The Cell Jrs, Goten, Trunks, Tien Shinhan, Krillin, Roshi and Android 18 should all be upgraded to 3-B (Multi-Galaxy level)

Cell Jr: Multi-Galaxy level (Roughly comparable to Android 17)

Son Goten: Multi-Galaxy level (Stronger than Cell Jr)

Trunks: Multi-Galaxy level (Equal to Goten and stronger than Cell Jr)

Tien Shinhan: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Krillin: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Master Roshi: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Android 18: Multi-Galaxy level (Stronger than Krillin and comparable to her brother)

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

looks fine

 

[Vizer04]

looks fine

There's also this (joke) CRT i made, that could add to the reasoning.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Master Roshi, Tien Shinhan and Krillin were chosed for the Tournament of Power over the kids

Fun Fact: The only reason Goten and Trunks were not chosen was because they lacked the experience the humans did.

Nakamura: Did I? I didn’t intend to, but… well, obviously Vegeta is right up there with Goku in terms of battle power. But personally I intended on putting more effort into the warriors like the Turtle Hermit or Kuririn, the ones who at first made you ask “why’d they bring these guys along?” Because Toriyama-sensei selected them. If he was just looking for battle power, then he would have only brought along people who could go Super Saiyan, like Goten or Trunks. I think Toriyama-sensei went out of his way to select those people as a way of telling us to have fights that would put them to good use, rather than simply having characters win by going Super Saiyan. I believe that was his aim in selecting those warriors.

they shouldn't be overwhelmingly weaker

Nothing suggests that they were comparable or even the same ballpark. The only comparison we get is, "Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyans are stronger than the humans are", so this argument falls on its face and is sent to the ICU.

The Cell Juniors should be at the very least 4-B by now, and Goten and Trunks could fight on equal terms all seven of them.

1. Your argument is based on assumption.
2. This was in the manga, not the anime.

This argument is further damaged by the fact that Goten and Trunks have barely trained in-between the Majin Buu Conflict and the events of the Extra Chapter, meaning unless Goten and Trunks were 4-B or super close to it in the Buu Saga, then this does not work.

Based on this, we can assume this Cell Juniors are vastly stronger than before since they received a Zenkai just like Cell did to become Super Perfect Cell.

Yeah, both Cell and the Cell Juniors recovered after their respective encounters with Gohan, so of course they would power up. The only difference is: Cell self-detonated and recovered from his nucleus, and the Cell Juniors were ripped in half by his kicks.

without much trouble.

They were ******* struggling, dawg. C'mon.

What is more, they have been training with 17 all this time and therefore, they should have increased their power level just like 17 did.

3-B Cell Juniors?

 

[Vizer04]

This argument is further damaged by the fact that Goten and Trunks have barely trained in-between the Majin Buu Conflict and the events of the Extra Chapter, meaning unless Goten and Trunks were 4-B or super close to it in the Buu Saga, then this does not work.

l mean, Gohan didn't train for years and he became Blue tier in a few hours so...

Nullflowerblush said:
Yeah, both Cell and the Cell Juniors recovered after their respective encounters with Gohan, so of course they would power up. The only difference is: Cell self-detonated and recovered from his nucleus, and the Cell Juniors were ripped in half by his kicks.

Irrelevant, the author explicitly says that they recovered the same way, by the remaining cluster of cells.

Nullflowerblush said:
They were ******* struggling, dawg.

They were fighting SEVEN Cell Jrs, dawg.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Irrelevant, the author explicitly says that they recovered the same way, by the remaining cluster of cells.

Cell could regenerate endlessly as long as the core cluster of cells in his head wasn't obliterated. Perhaps the Cell Juniors possessed a similar ability... If so, maybe those original seven survived to this day...

Holy shit, this is ridiculous.

l mean, Gohan didn't train for years and he became Blue tier in a few hours so...

Do the Cell Juniors have bottomless potential like Gohan does?
No?
Ah, rats. Shut up.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Irrelevant, the author explicitly says that they recovered the same way, by the remaining cluster of cells.

Irrelevant, because they were explicitly ripped apart.
That is how the word "explicit" is used.

 

[Vizer04]

Cell could regenerate endlessly as long as the core cluster of cells in his head wasn't obliterated. Perhaps the Cell Juniors possessed a similar ability... If so, maybe those original seven survived to this day...

Holy shit, this is ridiculous.

Yes, he was making assumptions. And all of them were correct: those were indeed the original Cell Jrs, they survived the same way as Cell, etc.

Do the Cell Juniors have bottomless potential like Gohan does?
No?

Why not? They're based off Cell and he has Goku's, Frieza's and Piccolo's cells.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

And all of them were correct: those were indeed the original Cell Jrs, they survived the same way as Cell, etc.

I'm actually giggling, because this in of itself is an assumption centered around another assumption.
Why don't you tag Toyotaro on Twitter and ask them if they were the real Cell Juniors, huh?

They're based off Cell and he has Frieza's, Goku's and Piccolo's cells.

Are they based off of Gohan's cells?

 

[Vizer04]

Do the Cell Juniors have bottomless potential like Gohan does?

I was talking about Goten and Trunks.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

3-B Goten and Trunks?

 

[RisingIons]

I feel nullflower has an overly reductive response to all of this. Regardless, Cell Jrs would just be unquantifiably above High 4-C. They don’t have evidence to be 4-B, and I don’t think anything suggests they’re near teen Gohan.

 

[Vizer04]

3-B Goten and Trunks?

Why not? Gohan went from 4-B to 3-A... in a few hours. And the kids have arguably equal or more potential than Gohan.

 

[RisingIons]

Cell has an explicit 4-B statement, Gohan was turning the Juniors into powder with kicks. And 17 has feats.

Trunks and Goten almost got their lunch money stolen lmao

 

[Nullflowerblush]

*uses a statement from 2015 in order to scale Krillin above a feat from 2021

 

[Vizer04]

RisingIons said:
They don’t have evidence to be 4-B, and I don’t think anything suggests they’re near teen Gohan.

They have, 17 trained all this years with them. And the Saiyan kids are stronger than them (they can get really strong really fast, just like Gohan)

If we go by the manga and my previous CRT, them being 3-B it's even consistent...

 

[Vizer04]

@DarkDragonMedeus
@DaReaperMan
@Gilad_Hyperstar

So, what do you all think?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Only staff members can ping members. You have to manually request for them on their Message Walls.

 

[Vizer04]

Only staff members can ping members. You have to manually request for them on their Message Walls.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why would the Cell Jrs. be 4-B, let alone 3-B? While it's very possible they regenerated and came to Monster Island to live there, we don't have feats to scale them to 4-B

Cell only became 4-B as Super Perfect Cell due to his statement and feats. The Cell Jrs. doesn't have that, and SSJ Goten and Trunks doesn't have feats to scale them to 4-B either, as they barely trained, if at all, after the Buu Saga

Also, the profiles for DBS are mostly from the Anime version of DBS, so unless we make a Chou version of Goten, Trunks or the humans, it won't scale to them anyways.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

3-B seems to have zero basis

 

[Vizer04]

3-B seems to have zero basis

This is the reasoning:

Cell Jr: Multi-Galaxy level (Roughly comparable to Android 17)

Son Goten: Multi-Galaxy level (Stronger than Cell Jr)

Trunks: Multi-Galaxy level (Equal to Goten and stronger than Cell Jr)

Tien Shinhan: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Krillin: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Master Roshi: Multi-Galaxy level (Shouldn't be too far from Goten and Trunks)

Android 18: Multi-Galaxy level (Stronger than Krillin and comparable to her brother)

 

[SirAlex09]

Whenver I see a Vizer CRT , I am going to get my popcorn:

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The thread can be closed now.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

-snip-

Jotaro vs. DIO, except Jotaro can't get angry.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why would the Cell Jrs. be comparable to Android 17?

Yes he tamed them but that doesn't mean they rival him in power. It actually seems like they just live there just like any other animal there, and not actively training with 17. All Android 17 did to them is to make them not attack Rangers of Monster Island, which also include Goten and Trunks as they wear the shirts

 

[Vizer04]

Yes he tamed them but that doesn't mean they rival him in power. It actually seems like they just live there just like any other animal there, and not actively training with 17.

Krillin: I'm starting to understand what makes you so strong...

They wouldn't be good training partners if they were overwhelmingly weaker than 17.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Who the hell said he trained with them?

 

[GuildZero]

Whenver I see a Vizer CRT , I am going to get my popcorn:

Bro same

 

[Vizer04]

I forgot to add, since 18 is stronger than Krillin she should get upgraded to 3-B too, making her comparable to her brother which makes it all the more consistent.

 

[GuildZero]

I don't think they would be 3-B i don't really see the evidence for it. He says their just as strong as they were before and likely stronger since they recovered from being kicked in half by gohan.

But a 4-B Goten and Trunks seems fine. Trunks only took damage when they were caught off gaurd. And are able to fight multiple cell jr at the same time and hold them off. And take far less damage than trunks vegeta and goku did.

Instead of 3-B should be 4-B

 

[GuildZero]

Also the humans should not scale to goten and trunks at all. The only reason goten and trunks were not chosen was because they did not have the experience that the humans did

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I find it impressive how Vizer managed to change his argument from "Cell Juniors are stronger than Super Perfect Cell" to "Cell Juniors trained with Android 17, so they are comparable to him" without anyone noticing. I find it even more impressive how he came to both of these conclusions without conclusive evidence.

 

[sanicspood]

LMAO

 

[Vizer04]

I find it impressive how Vizer managed to change his argument from "Cell Juniors are stronger than Super Perfect Cell" to "Cell Juniors trained with Android 17, so they are comparable to him" without anyone noticing. I find it even more impressive how he came to both of these conclusions without conclusive evidence.

Sorry, are you angry? :3

 

[Coolboy6]

I find it impressive how Vizer managed to change his argument from "Cell Juniors are stronger than Super Perfect Cell" to "Cell Juniors trained with Android 17, so they are comparable to him" without anyone noticing. I find it even more impressive how he came to both of these conclusions without conclusive evidence.

Bruh moment

 

[Coolboy6]

Sorry, are you angry? :3

Your crts are terrible and they make me lose my brain cells reading them

 

[GuildZero]

I find it impressive how Vizer managed to change his argument from "Cell Juniors are stronger than Super Perfect Cell" to "Cell Juniors trained with Android 17, so they are comparable to him" without anyone noticing. I find it even more impressive how he came to both of these conclusions without conclusive evidence.

While i disagree with both it is safe to assume they fought 17 while he was trying to tame them. But he most likely held back since he was trying to tame them and his love for animals. But there is no evidence for this just something i believe we can assume

 

[SirAlex09]

Your crts are terrible and they make me lose my brain cells reading them

His CRT about upgrading Tien and Krillin wasn't bad. @Vizer , the problem is that you work too much with assumptions (that may be plausible but effectively can't be proven ) rather than clear feats and statements...

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I agree this takes way too many assumptions and causes inconsistencies with the narrative as well (partly why the DBS manga and anime are treated separately).

4-B seems reasonable to debate at least.