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These last 20 comments are absolute memes lmfao
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Dragon Ball Super: [MASSIVE UPGRADE]
- Thread starter Vizer04
- Start date
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SirAlex09
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Your first assumption was that the Humans were as strong Goten and Trunks (who could give some trouble to trained Super saiyans like Gohan/ Vegeta in Z and were stated to be twice as strong when they left the HTC).
While it is very likely that the humans might have caught up due to the reasoning you gave, there are no actual feats that suggest that Krillin and Co are actually that strong by the manga. It's an educated assumption at best rather than fact.
Next is the assumption that you think that Cell JR are equivalent to Android 17 in some ways and while you reasoning isn't bad there either ( Note : 17 was weaker than Cell jr in the Android Arc so them getting stronger at the same rate isn't that far fetched) it still isn't prove because Training as a whole is an inconsistent power increase in dragonball . We also have counter examples :
1) Gohan trained with Goku and Piccolo and was still miles behind them
2) Chao Zhu ( still can't spell him correctly lol) trained with Tien, Yamcha and Krillin and was always far behind them despite that. Pre Training they were all relative to each other but for some reason Chao Zhu always ended being below 50% of Yamcha's PL.
3) Whis and the Saiyans ..Despite training together they are not even close to him
But the actual problem is that it there are too many assumption piled on each other which decreases the overall accuracy even if the assumption are good
While it is very likely that the humans might have caught up due to the reasoning you gave, there are no actual feats that suggest that Krillin and Co are actually that strong by the manga. It's an educated assumption at best rather than fact.
Next is the assumption that you think that Cell JR are equivalent to Android 17 in some ways and while you reasoning isn't bad there either ( Note : 17 was weaker than Cell jr in the Android Arc so them getting stronger at the same rate isn't that far fetched) it still isn't prove because Training as a whole is an inconsistent power increase in dragonball . We also have counter examples :
1) Gohan trained with Goku and Piccolo and was still miles behind them
2) Chao Zhu ( still can't spell him correctly lol) trained with Tien, Yamcha and Krillin and was always far behind them despite that. Pre Training they were all relative to each other but for some reason Chao Zhu always ended being below 50% of Yamcha's PL.
3) Whis and the Saiyans ..Despite training together they are not even close to him
But the actual problem is that it there are too many assumption piled on each other which decreases the overall accuracy even if the assumption are good
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Vizer04
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- Thread starter
- #44
Fair enough, however i didn't said the Humans were as strong as Goten and Trunks. I said they couldn't be overwhelmingly weaker or else they wouldn't have been chosed for the ToP (Roshi can be very experienced, but there's simply no way they would choose a 4-C over a 3-B no matter how experienced they could be)
All fair points, but Krillin explicitly said that this was the reason 17 got so strong. They can't be good training partners if they were overwhelmingly weaker than 17.
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My problem is nothing actually suggest for then to be galaxy level with what we know. We can assume they got stronger from a zenkai but not comparable to 17. They should still stay High 4-C
And goten and trunks should be 4-B for being able to fight multiple cell jrs at the same and not be damaged.
The humans also do not scale to goten and trunks and the only reason they were not in the tournament was because of lack in experience they have compared to the others.
The only one who maybe is 3-B is android 18
Nullflowerblush
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At first glance this looks fine
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Do we even have profiles for their manga versions? Because I don't see the purpose of this thread if none of these characters have Super manga profiles.
Also, the Cell Jr being trained by Android 17 doesn't mean they are on his level exactly, that's not how it works unless stated or visually shown. They would only be "At least" what they were before.
Also, the Cell Jr being trained by Android 17 doesn't mean they are on his level exactly, that's not how it works unless stated or visually shown. They would only be "At least" what they were before.
Vizer04
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I was saying we should make Manga versions for them if this (unlikely) gets accepted.
1. They were stronger than him at the end of the Cell Saga.
2. They have Goku's, Frieza's and Piccolo's cells.
3. They can't be good training partners to 17 if they're overwhelmingly weaker than him.
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Ok
1. And, that just means 17 got stronger than them.
2. Didn't Cell had those same cells yet his power wasn't climbing to vast heights while he was fighting, he had to absorb people. If we used that logic, first form Cell could have trained for a few days (going off character growth in Super) and he would have been god level because he had the cell of everyone but instead he chose to absorb humans...
3. This is the only thing I can agree to that supports the being around his level. Otherwise he wouldn't get anywhere if they were to weak.
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"I tamed them and taught them never to defy rangers"
Doesn't mean he trained with them to make them more powerful, it means he trained them like dogs to never attack their master. Goten and Trunks have little to their name in terms of power scaling unless you do the inverse of the fusion formula on Gotenks to get their approximate individual powers.
Fusion >(X+Y)*(at least 20)
Doesn't mean he trained with them to make them more powerful, it means he trained them like dogs to never attack their master. Goten and Trunks have little to their name in terms of power scaling unless you do the inverse of the fusion formula on Gotenks to get their approximate individual powers.
Fusion >(X+Y)*(at least 20)
Nullflowerblush
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Just a reminder that people are genuinely arguing that Goten, Trunks, the Cell Juniors, and the Earthlings are on the level of Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and Android 17.
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Yes!
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Just like you can teach a dog to guard the house. Doesn't mean you have chihuahuas out-punching Mike Tyson.
Nullflowerblush
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to be fair, are you out-punching mike tyson?
Nullflowerblush
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You are arguing that the Cell Juniors scale to Android 17, who scales to Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
azontr
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Chihuahuas can't punch for shit. At least mine can't.
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Besides the earthling and cell jrs goten and trunks should be 4-B for being able to fight multiple cell jrs at the same time. But none of them are comparable to super saiyan blue goku and vegeta and golden frieza. And 100% not even comparable to 17.
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Disagree with this. The scans posted flat-out contradict what's being suggested, as 17 says that these "Psuedo Cell Juniors" are as strong as the original ones, and he never trained them, he simply tamed them.
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Yeah, I'm really skeptical about this. I'm not familiar with the manga version of DBS, but think this is reliant on too many loop holes and assumptions here and there.
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Would 4-B goten and trunks not work though. They were able to fight multiple cell jrs at the same time and the only time they were damaged was when they were caught off gaurd
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Aren’t Cell Juniors High 4-C though?
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Yeah but they were able to fight multiple of them at the same time. And wasn't having much difficulty
Nullflowerblush
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THEY'RE CLEARLY STRUGGLING WHAT??
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Still not enough to jump to the next tier. It’s not even a High 4-C+, and fighting multiple doesn’t mean much unless they stopped a combined attack from them, which doesn’t seem to be the case.
If anything, this is consistent with Goten and Trunks’ current tier.
If anything, this is consistent with Goten and Trunks’ current tier.
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18 stays High 4-C, as do Goten and Trunks
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No they are not. Caught of gaurd and able to hold them back. Nothing even suggest they are struggling
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Ok. Though they would have 4-B since the cell jrs are just as strong as their past self and was stomping ssj vegeta trunks and cell with low difficulty while playing around.
At least high 4-C+ should be fine
Nullflowerblush
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Battling with High 4-Cs (remember, Vegeta and Trunks could put up a good fight, and Goku was just exhausted) is not enough to warrant a High 4-C+ rating.
Although the fact that the Cell Juniors are stated numerous times in both the original manga and in databooks to possesses the same abilities as Cell is pretty good evidence.
Nullflowerblush
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I'm not cutting you guys any more slack.
Yes, they were holding them off, but at the same time, they were struggling. They were sweating, they were scared, they called their strength monstrous, and after the battle, they were tuckered out and slouched over. And no, they weren't ******* caught off-guard. They were actively engaged in combat. What, were they sleep while they were fighting, like Garou? To claim that they took them off without any difficultly is blatantly ******* wrong.
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Uh no it is not. They unexpectedly got into a fight with the cell jrs and trunks is hit while off guard. And before and during the fight are still shown to be confused with what the cell jrs are. And they are not even shown to be struggling and are concerned with what with them. Being engaged does not mean struggling. To say they were not caught off guard is a blatant ******* lie. Especially when it starts with a cell jr jumping out a bush and punching trunks
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#17 explicitly states in the second scan that the Cell Juniors are just as strong as they were in the Cell Games, and he never says that he trained them, just that he tamed them to not defy rangers. Also, while it's true that Goten and Trunks were able to hold their own, to say that they didn't struggle at all is silly when they had to transform into Super Saiyans and still found their strength impressive, as evidenced by Goten remarking that they are "crazy strong." Last but not least, we don't have manga profiles for any of the characters that the OP is scaling to 3-B, and I don't think we ever will: simply being in a different tier isn't enough to justify creating alternate profiles. Hell, people at one point were pushing back against indexing the DBS manga at all because the characters weren't seen as significantly different from their anime counterparts, and even now, not everyone gets profiles for their counterparts in the manga.
Nothing indicates that Goten and Trunks scale to Super Perfect Cell, let alone to ******* Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
Nothing indicates that Goten and Trunks scale to Super Perfect Cell, let alone to ******* Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
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No I disagree with this, the cell juniors are literally stated by 17 to be just as strong as they were, and he never trained them, he just tamed them, and even if he trained them, that doesn't mean they are as strong as him.
SirAlex09
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A17 in the manga is only SSj3 level and vastly weaker than Goku compared to the Anime
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