Dragon Ball Super level of 3-A

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Many Hundred Times above baseline is believable.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Ah, so I'm assuming this is a multiplier they stated themselves?

There is a very big difference between kaio-ken, a multiplier stated several times, and this, where this is no multiplier involved in the series, just a gap between stats.

There actually are stated multipliers from wog (lisa Lisa is 3x joseph).

 

[Akreious]

Difference is, Dragon Ball has a "Linear" multiplier system.

SSJ<SSJ2<SSJ3<SSG<SSB<SSBKaiokenx10<SSBKaiokenx20<UIO<MUI

Pokemon lacks that. Sure, they have

Pokemon A < Pokemon B and stuff, but who's stronger than who is left ambiguous like how Deoxys seems to be roughly even with Rayquaza in speed or if Rayquaza might be slightly faster normally when Deoxys is outside of Speed Form? Or maybe Dialga and Palkia, what about them? They don't instantly speed blitz every pokemon yet they've been shown having finite and limited speeds before.

 

[SomebodyData]

@jman I was refering to Cal, probably should have mentioned that. @Akr its more that the multipliers are an actual thing.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Although on the pokemon frony cal.

Assuming a 1.5 amp for deoxys which has quotes stating his speed multiplied is fine.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even if we want to use multipliers, Zygarde has a sub rel feat at 1% of itself, yet it isn't FTL at 100%.

 

[Akreious]

Honestly, getting rid of multipliers or holding off on upgrading characters despite the difference being hilariously negigible (Jesus, 1.5x?!) despite there being a huge chain of stomps and speed blitzes is just... not agreeable. I can't work with that logic. As a rule of thumb, I generally tend to use 1.5x and 2x multipliers as lowballs to see at minimum what they should be. Completely disregard any data books or statements, just use 1.5x or 2x. Using lowball numbers like this and still having the result be higher than what they presently have should warrant an upgrade since it's literally the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they can go.

Pokemon doesn't work in this case because there's no set Hierarchy. Sure, Legendaries > Final Form Pokemon > Mid-Form Pokemon > First Form Pokemon but what about the individual pokemon within said tiers?

 

[SomebodyData]

There's a differnce between assumed multipliers and multipliers actually stated. Not saying I disagree with a speed tier jump, assuming its Rela from a calc to begin with.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Even if we want to use multipliers, Zygarde has a sub rel feat at 1% of itself, yet it isn't FTL at 100%.

Then do a pokemon thread. Ftl being an outlier for the big dick guardian of earth and the main defense from threats while gaving about ten metric ton of hype would be quite fair man .

 

[Akreious]

I'm going to be frank, not allowing upgrades from scaling is kinda stupid. So assuming someone is 0.99% SoL and I blitz that guy, would that only make me at least 0.99% SoL myself? That's the vibe I'm getting.

Anyways, I feel like this is actually off topic. I gave my two cents on how deep into 3-A DB is already, so yeah.

 

[Son_Gandhi]

So much downplay

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think this conversation was intended to be about DB since I see so many verses here. But one example of insane multiplier would be Jin Mo Ri where he reached 4-A via one-shotting quadrillions of Low 4-Cs.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I can't say I quite understand what's going on. But, the only reason the Digimon Multipliers are not used is because the 1000x multiplier is not linear at all. Hence, why we downgraded all the 6-B's to High 6-C (which required a new calc). I don't know if we treat Kaioken as a linear multiplier or not. Either way, we should bring up verses with linear multipliers to compare to DB, not verses with non linear multipliers.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I can't say I quite understand what's going on. But, the only reason the Digimon Multipliers are not used is because the 1000x multiplier is not linear at all. Hence, why we downgraded all the 6-B's to High 6-C (which required a new calc). I don't know if we treat Kaioken as a linear multiplier or not. Either way, we should bring up verses with linear multipliers to compare to DB, not verses with non linear multipliers.

I concur. Are there any obvious examples we're missing here?

 

[Son_Gandhi]

To think that Vegeta and Goku from TOP are either 400x baseline or less is just clear and simple downplay and really makes no sense. Think of the jump from ssj3 to ssjgod, then think of that jump from base form to ssjgod, then add blue, then add kkx20. Even without factoring zenkais and training and rage boosts etc. to think that the jump from base form to blue x 20 is only 400x or less doest make sense.

 

[ByAsura]

It was stated Goku got stronger multiple times in the training sessions with Whis, with each one being an increase on the last.

It was implied once that he got stronger in the U6 v U7 arc, and later got even stronger in the HTC. Later it was stated he kept on training.

During the Potaufeu saga Copy Vegeta and Goku say they got even stronger.

Goku Black says Goku and Vegeta got stronger multiple times, this was before and in the 3rd battle.

Goku says Hit got way stronger than the U6 v 7 arc, and says he could go even higher, but Goku matches him wit Blue.

SSG Goku matches Dyspo when he's not using light bullet, who was matching an improved Hit, who Goku said was even stronger than before.

Goku got even stronger while fighting Kale and Caulifa.

All this pre dates the Universe+ stuff, and doesn't count the BOG saga.

SSB Goku was also fighting on par with a suppressed Kefla, despite Champa saying her Super Saiyan form exceeds the amount of power he thought it would have. So SSB is even more than a 50x increase onto God (using the Super... something guide multiplier for SS)

I have the scans to back up my claims if you ask.

 

[AKM sama]

I'll get into why even ssj1 Goku comfortably surpasses the baseline by more than 400x, later.

 

[Son_Gandhi]

Mssj with a greater multiplier than regular ssj.

 

[AKM sama]

I was talking about the regular ssj (grade 1) only. But yeah, that too.

 

[Xantospoc]

Alright, let's go NOTE: I am using the SSJ multiplier because it was given both in the Daishenzuu and in an interview of Toriyama.

BoG saga Base Goku -> Baseline universal

RoF Goku -> at least x50, possibly x300 (see Katoplesa's ultimate form matching briefly Vegeta in his SSJ mode)

U6 Goku -> At least x10 (ecluding the training, his Kaioken goes x10)

Future Trunks saga Goku -> At least x10 (was able to fight Hit without going KK, was able due to anger to overwhelm Meged Zamasu, whose power was dozen fo times above Goku Black by Potara multiplier)

Universal Survival Goku (pre-Zenkai) -> x2 (Kaioken goes up to KKx20 now, AKA twice as higher)

Post first UI -> at least x10, likely x50-300 (Goku was losing to Kale but was overwhelming her as a SSG, which is according to the manga at least 10 times higher than a SSJB, but likely higher given Blue is basically the SSJ version of God)

Post second UI -> Likely just as much as the first

Post third UI -> Higher?!

LOWBALL

x50x10x10x2x10x10x10 = 10.000.000 AKA Ten Millions

HIGHBALL

x300x10x10x2x300x300x300= 2*3*3*3*3*10^12=54e10= 162.000.000.000.000 AKA 162 Trillion times

This without the multipliers of SSJ2, SSJ3 and SSJB

 

[Kaltias]

1) We don't use SSJ multipliers

2) We don't use the DBS manga

 

[Xantospoc]

GIven how Toriyama mentioned already outside the Daishenzuu I don't see why not, especially given how anyway I gave out another more valid multiplier (AKA Katoplesa's ultimate form matching Vegeta's Super Saiyan)

 

[AKM sama]

The first dense energy ball was going to destroy the universe from Earth. The Earth itself is located at the edge of the universe. That makes the first dense energy ball around 5x baseline.

Base Goku then oneshots a much more powerful second dense energy ball. Not to mention the DB universe size is 2.2x going by the map.

Then Goku trains with Whis, then for 3 years in the RoSaT. Getting more powerful.

SSJ1 is 50x (see reason here )

Grade 2 is unknown.

Grade 4 is at least 2x of Grade 2 (see reason in that link)

Grade 5 or SSJ2 is at least 2x of Grade 4 (see reason in that link)

SSJ3 is unknown.

SSG is unknown.

SSB is possibly 50x of SSG (stated to be the super saiyan form of SSG)

U6 arc Goku can do kaioken upto 10x

Post Future Trunks arc SSB Goku was stronger than U6 SSBKKx10 Goku and can do another kaioken upto 20x

Yeah, pretty high up in the 3-A range. Easily hundreds of thousands of times even if we lowball.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You know what, I give up. Have Goku one-shot Amitabha for all I care.

 

[Akreious]

Cal, your logic dictates that SSJ2 is equal to Regular SSJ. thats the only way we can get 400x and below. I refer back to the 1.1x difference extreme downplay equation I posted above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even Matt said that upper hundreds was the safest. I'll concede of 400 probably being too low. Sure. Whatever. But multiple thousands due to scaling alone?! No way. This is the only verse where people can suggest being stronger by factors of thousands without feats to back it up and people will still call it a lowball.

On a side note, keep in mind that I have nothing against any of you. It's simply a difference in opinion. Akr and AKM are two of my favorite members, and probably my favorite non-staff main DB supporters.

 

[AKM sama]

But the powerscaling is even crazier for Jin Mo Ri though. That goes into the quadrillions of times. And it's not like they don't have feats. It's just that they were very weak back then and have grown much stronger now.

Why, thank you!

 

[Akreious]

Awww I'm flattered!

I think we can all agree at least that they're a couple hundred above baseline. That's the general consensus I believe, so we should probably go with that.

Although it'd be awesome to see Goku actually get bloodlusted and 1-shot a trillion universes or something casually in base. Although I doubt they'd let that happen.

 

[Xantospoc]

I doubt it will ever happen. Esepcially given how we have only 12 universes. The best thing we can get is Goku being able to destroy another world of void-like thing and being high 3-A

 

[Son_Gandhi]

Not to derail but could we get some votes on this thread, the debate about Vegeta's ap in his TOP(3-A) key got a little out of hand but would like some opinions or votes on this... https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1748935?useskin=oasis

 

[AKM sama]

That will most probably never happen. In terms of destruction he hasn't even destroyed a moon alone.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That will most probably never happen. In terms of destruction he hasn't even destroyed a moon alone.

He once punched Freeza's Death Ball so hard it flew to another planet and destroyed it. (Though this is probably toeiverse only)

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Using multipliers in DBS is all pure speculation, since the last CONFIRMED Power Level occurred in the Freeza Saga.

And as for the question, they're well above it.

 

[AKM sama]

I did not see anyone using power levels in here. Multipliers are not power levels, and using confirmed multipliers is not speculation.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't think the show abides by all this logic, but i would definitley say it makes each post BOG Goku orders of magnitude higher than BOG SSG with simple statements and feats rather than just the multipliers of other forms. Note here i am not saying one form being lower or higher than another counts as a multiplier.

 

[Son_Gandhi]

Any votes for my thread guys?

 

[AKM sama]

Any votes for my thread guys?

This thread is in the content revision board. This is not a place for asking people to vote or participate in vs matches. You can just bump your match once every 12-24 hours, and people willing to vote or participate will eventually appear. Or you can go to people's message walls and politely ask them to participate.

Sorry, I am not being rude. I am just telling you in case you didn't know since you are new here.

EDIT: I also think this thread can be closed now.

 

[InfiniteBlack123]

Atleast over 100 to 100000, Going by Base = Above BoG Ssjg Goku.

 

[Jobbo]

RoF = 20x baseline (SSB should be stronger than using Kaioken x20 in base)

Pre-ToP = 200x baseline (Goku was stronger than he was using Kaioken x10 in the U6 arc)

Post-UI = 8,000x baseline (Stronger than his Kaioken x20 + Genki Dama combo, which should at least be equivalent to Kaioken x40)

 

[InfiniteBlack123]

So I was looking at the Dub explanation for Beerus's power.

Beerus created a Timeline containing multiverse, with an accidental thought and choice.

https://youtu.be/XDaZHkkA5MI


Beerus can unconsciously create a multiverse, how much can his limits be in the case of destruction.