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Dragon Ball Super: Episode 131 Upgrades
- Thread starter KingPin0422
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@Aeyu
The reason "At least 3-B" is still there is because Super Shenron can't use any power beyond 3-B for himself. He can only do it in the form of a wish, which is what others request, not himself. His 3-B key comes from sheer size so that would stay.
The reason "At least 3-B" is still there is because Super Shenron can't use any power beyond 3-B for himself. He can only do it in the form of a wish, which is what others request, not himself. His 3-B key comes from sheer size so that would stay.
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I agree with Matthew and Kepkley.
You can't become High 3-A unless you have a High 3-A feat or fight a High 3-A.
A Low 2-C is infinitly stronger then a High 3-A it makes no sense to upgrade them.
More likely then not is that Jiren was brought down to 3-A after getting beaten by MUI Goku.
You can't become High 3-A unless you have a High 3-A feat or fight a High 3-A.
A Low 2-C is infinitly stronger then a High 3-A it makes no sense to upgrade them.
More likely then not is that Jiren was brought down to 3-A after getting beaten by MUI Goku.
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@Aeyu Yes,thats Dragonball powerups in a nutshell, but never to such a ludicrous degree, much less, and I hate to repeat myself, A 100X STRONGER in 10 minutes. It's just too far fetched to agree with, and why not provide the same for Hit, didn't he nearly eliminate Jiren, and was one of the 2 people Jiren was concerned with during the tournament ?
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@Kep
Selective scaling? What does that even mean? This is more based off of them several times over being able to keep up with a very patently Low 2-C being, who, I might mention, powered up to a level relatviely comparable to his previous peak of power before Limit-Breaker, being able to keep up with Toppo and survive attacks from he and Jiren both, and being shown to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta who had both broken their limits on multiple occasions. At the least, "Possibly High 3-A" should be considered. Keep in mind I've opposed both ratings until this point.
Selective scaling? What does that even mean? This is more based off of them several times over being able to keep up with a very patently Low 2-C being, who, I might mention, powered up to a level relatviely comparable to his previous peak of power before Limit-Breaker, being able to keep up with Toppo and survive attacks from he and Jiren both, and being shown to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta who had both broken their limits on multiple occasions. At the least, "Possibly High 3-A" should be considered. Keep in mind I've opposed both ratings until this point.
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There is not a single Low 2-C 17 feat out there where he doesn't get completely demolished and pulls out a PIS.
High 3-A is literally the Golden Mea fallacy.
High 3-A is literally the Golden Mea fallacy.
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17 was suppressed by an unknown ammount, and we never actually got to see Freeza fight all out in the beginning of the tournament, and he's been hyped up the entire time.Matthew Schroeder said:
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@ProfessorKukui
That's purely headcanon. He's never been stated to have this limitation, and assuming so based off other Shenrons is disingenuous.
@Poinciana
Come up with better arguments. High 3-A is often used to represent a portion of Low 2-C power.
Jiren getting downgraded when he's clearly shown to power back up to a level beyond one previously shown (when beating 17) is definitely BS.
@Vegan
Wrong.
That's purely headcanon. He's never been stated to have this limitation, and assuming so based off other Shenrons is disingenuous.
@Poinciana
Come up with better arguments. High 3-A is often used to represent a portion of Low 2-C power.
Jiren getting downgraded when he's clearly shown to power back up to a level beyond one previously shown (when beating 17) is definitely BS.
@Vegan
Wrong.
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Freeza got absolutely destroyed by GoD Toppo and consistently fights 3-As on the tournament.
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Yeah as much as I want High 3-A 17 and Frieza I'm gonna have to disagree here. This episode has been pretty weird on the scaling. Android 17 managed to break his own barrier with his Ki blast even though Anilaza who was stronger than the top 5 fighters of Universe 7 couldn't do it. And if Hit, SS Berserker Kefla, and Anilaza who are all stronger than they are couldn't get High 3-A than I don't think they should either. Though i still think Anilaza and in turn 17's barrier should be Low 2-C scaling from Post-Kefla SSB Goku even though I know people won't agree with it.
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Golden Frieza was stated to be equal to SSB Goku Pre ToP when they fought.
Goku and Frieza knocked each other out in one punch.
17 was able to keep up with Toppo who forced Goku to use Kaioken.
Nothing is High 3-A or Low 2-C.
Goku and Frieza knocked each other out in one punch.
17 was able to keep up with Toppo who forced Goku to use Kaioken.
Nothing is High 3-A or Low 2-C.
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@Aeyu
Yeah no. First of all, this was heavily agreed upon by others before . Second, you need evidence to support Super Shenron not having this limitation as opposed to him having it. All of the wish dragons in DB have had this limitation and have never once shown the capability of being able to make their own wishes. It's not headcanon.
Yeah no. First of all, this was heavily agreed upon by others before . Second, you need evidence to support Super Shenron not having this limitation as opposed to him having it. All of the wish dragons in DB have had this limitation and have never once shown the capability of being able to make their own wishes. It's not headcanon.
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No, I remember vividly frm previous threads, and the episode itself, Hit nearly eliminated Jiren, and Jiren was only concerned about Goku and Hit. People were vieing for High-3A Hit as you are now for Frieza and 17, if the outcome for the former is anything to go by, this doesn't change anything.
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> Low 2-C 17 via self-destruct
Notto disu shitto agen.
Notto disu shitto agen.
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You responded to that fast Kep.
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@Kep
How many times is it going to be called PIS though just because of previous events? The demonstration of Freeza and 17 being able to fight Low 2-C's is far more consistent than even of 18 and Ribrianne.
@Peter
Hit, Kefla, Anilaza =/= Freeza and 17
I explained why above.
@Poinciana
Your arguments are very weak and you're cherrypicking/ignoring feats from later on. Agreeing with the opposition and sounding all resolute doesn't change the fact that your arguments are literal garbage.
@Kukui
Something being agreed on before means nothing. 17, Anilaza and Kefla were heavily agreed on to be At least 3-A in a previous thread. That was changed. It's very much headcanon and asinine to assume a dragon far beyond the capability of any of those dragons is limited in the same way.
How many times is it going to be called PIS though just because of previous events? The demonstration of Freeza and 17 being able to fight Low 2-C's is far more consistent than even of 18 and Ribrianne.
@Peter
Hit, Kefla, Anilaza =/= Freeza and 17
I explained why above.
@Poinciana
Your arguments are very weak and you're cherrypicking/ignoring feats from later on. Agreeing with the opposition and sounding all resolute doesn't change the fact that your arguments are literal garbage.
@Kukui
Something being agreed on before means nothing. 17, Anilaza and Kefla were heavily agreed on to be At least 3-A in a previous thread. That was changed. It's very much headcanon and asinine to assume a dragon far beyond the capability of any of those dragons is limited in the same way.
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Well, almost anything will be more consistent than 18 vs Ribrianne because that definitely wasn't.
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@Aeyu
Throwing a blanket "wrong" or "your arguments are weak" to respond to entire paragraphs isn't evidence. Please be more concise.
Throwing a blanket "wrong" or "your arguments are weak" to respond to entire paragraphs isn't evidence. Please be more concise.
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That's also true, 17 couldn't even outpower base Toppo, yet this makes him qualified for an upgrade, that's complete garbage, this should be closed.
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Also, 18 vs. Ribrianne is extremely inconsistent and I only agreed with it at first because I was still catching up. Seriously, Ribrianne herself has almost no 3-A feats and 18 got blitzed by Katopesla who is a fodder-tier.
To say it's "consistent" is a joke, no offense.
To say it's "consistent" is a joke, no offense.
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18 is not 3-A and I've always had a problem with that.
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I only agree with the first two things as they are the most blatant. I will not even comment on the last one as that will cause a storm that no Super Dragon Balls alive will fix.
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@Huesito
Under your logic, SSJB Goku was going all out when he was fighting Kale and struggled vs several opponents before.
@Kep
When I've already explained twice why Dragon Ball does the thing that he's denying over and over and I get the same answer back, I'm not going to waste my time typing some drawn out response.
Also, that's what "At least "X"'s" are for in the Ribrianne thing's case. As I said before, perhaps a "Possibly X" rating would be more desirable in all these cases instead of a solid upgrade.
Under your logic, SSJB Goku was going all out when he was fighting Kale and struggled vs several opponents before.
@Kep
When I've already explained twice why Dragon Ball does the thing that he's denying over and over and I get the same answer back, I'm not going to waste my time typing some drawn out response.
Also, that's what "At least "X"'s" are for in the Ribrianne thing's case. As I said before, perhaps a "Possibly X" rating would be more desirable in all these cases instead of a solid upgrade.
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@Aeyu Why would 17 hold back when it was down to the final minutes of the Tournament that decides the FATE OF HIS UNIVERSE, does that ANY sense to you at all, this has got to be a joke.
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@Peter He was directly hit from his own attack inside the barrier as well. In mnany instances in fiction, when someone is hit while inside their own barrier/force field, they can't hold it and it shatters/collapses. This would be an example of such a case
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@Aeyu
Huge false equalivancy. The former is talking about scaling, this is talking about weakness and limitation, which there is.
The dragons cant summon themselves
The dragons ask for a wish to be made instead of making ones themselves.
Heck, you need the Language of the gods to even summon Super Shenron. And once the wish is made,they return to sleep and the dragon balls scatter, which btw need to be brought together to summon the dragon as well. Those are extremely big limitations, which further prove the dragons dont and cant fight for themselves.
2-C is obviously justifiable but not for combat. Only for wishing, which consistently relies on the requests of others to make and, in S.S.'s case, only once. He's not like Genie or other wish granters who CAN use wishing for themselves.
Huge false equalivancy. The former is talking about scaling, this is talking about weakness and limitation, which there is.
The dragons cant summon themselves
The dragons ask for a wish to be made instead of making ones themselves.
Heck, you need the Language of the gods to even summon Super Shenron. And once the wish is made,they return to sleep and the dragon balls scatter, which btw need to be brought together to summon the dragon as well. Those are extremely big limitations, which further prove the dragons dont and cant fight for themselves.
2-C is obviously justifiable but not for combat. Only for wishing, which consistently relies on the requests of others to make and, in S.S.'s case, only once. He's not like Genie or other wish granters who CAN use wishing for themselves.
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I love how we can ruin a pretty happy ending by immediately going for an upgrade thread. We couldn't even wait '''an hour after''' the episode. We couldn't even wait '''until the subs'''. We couldn't even wait '''til tomorrow'''....
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Jiren did the exact same thing lol. Toppo also didn't use his GoD power until it was down to him and Jiren with little time remainig while they were at a 4-2 disadvantage. Your point?Vegan Gains said:
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Stuff with 18:Kepekley23 said:
- Portrayed as slightly superior but roughly comparable to Krillin twice
- Was getting blitzed by a Katopesla who was x4,000 times slower than a Katopesla who a casual Base Vegeta blitzed, and who a casual Base Vegeta also stomped when his strength was amped by x4,000
- Got rescued from Katopesla by a casual 17 who blitzed Katopesla and beat him up
- Got rescued by 17 again when Kefla was powering up, she was sent flying and would have dropped out of the arena
- Only matched Ribrianne in a scene that was about how her love for Krillin was purer and more powerful than the "love" Ribrianne's fans had for her, a love that was outright amping Ribrianne.
- So it is likely that 18 was amped as well.
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@Kukui
The Dragons don't fight period tho. Also we are an indexing site first and foremost. If a character is 2-C regardless of limitations, they are 2-C. The dragons shouldn't even be used in combat anyway.
The Dragons don't fight period tho. Also we are an indexing site first and foremost. If a character is 2-C regardless of limitations, they are 2-C. The dragons shouldn't even be used in combat anyway.
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Just because they "can't summon themselves" or need to have wishes asked for, doesn't detract from their power. None of the other dragons are rated according to their size, and it's redundant to add when 2-C is what will be used as a metric. If you're going to go by past statements, each dragon is only as powerful as its master. If SS can manifest 2-C wishes, then it should be 2-C by the nature of that alone.
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This is what makes huge chunks of the Dragon Ball fanbase garbage tbh. Only power matters, everything else is irrelevant.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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Upgrades FRA.
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This is exactly what im arguing Dragon. I never said he can't be 2-C, wishing back universes is definitely 2-C and it'd be downplay not to list it as that.Dragonmasterxyz said:
The one thing I am arguing is for a note to specificy its useless in combat, which Aeyu seems to completely disagree with.
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I mean, I don't disagree, but the upgrades have a basis in reality.Matthew Schroeder said:
IMO It counts.
Edit: Also, I am jetting before this gets ugly tbh.
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Except High 3-A is literally the Golden Mean fallacy. The feats are supposed to be either 3-A or Low 2-C, there's no gray area at all. And Low 2-C has already been denied over and over again. Freeza got destroyed by GoD Toppo, who by feats is actually still weaker than the average GoD.
17's Self-Destruct has also already been debunked.
17's Self-Destruct has also already been debunked.
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