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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 85
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
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Jesus Christ. Stop quoting each wall of text FFS.
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Jiren literally had to break his limits to rival Beerus (who was comparable to 130 MUI Goku probably even higher)
Care to elaborate and show some proof of Beerus being stronger than full power Jiren?
Care to elaborate and show some proof of Beerus being stronger than full power Jiren?
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We don't know that for sure. Replace "All GoDs" with "Belmod" and that would be correct.
"There is a mortal not even a GoD can defeat. That GoD happens to be stronger than Beerus." - an angel who knows Beerus' full power. No one ever differentiates GoDs from one another in terms of power. And he was stated as the most powerful foe in DB history. Even Champa, described as weaker than Beerus would fight Beerus to a stalemate, It's safe to assume they are all nearly equal.
"There is a mortal not even a GoD can defeat. That GoD happens to be stronger than Beerus." - an angel who knows Beerus' full power. No one ever differentiates GoDs from one another in terms of power. And he was stated as the most powerful foe in DB history. Even Champa, described as weaker than Beerus would fight Beerus to a stalemate, It's safe to assume they are all nearly equal.
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Jiren literally had to break his limits to rival Beerus (who was comparable to 130 MUI Goku probably even higher)
Care to elaborate and show some proof of Beerus being stronger than full power Jiren?
Beerus was scaled to 130 MUI Goku, who clearly murked FP Jiren (who is comparable to 128 - 129 UI Goku)
Care to elaborate and show some proof of Beerus being stronger than full power Jiren?
Beerus was scaled to 130 MUI Goku, who clearly murked FP Jiren (who is comparable to 128 - 129 UI Goku)
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@Mulgata, IIRC Jiren is described as the most powerful foe in DB history in the preview of episode 129, before 130.
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We don't know that for sure. Replace "All GoDs" with "Belmod" and that would be correct.
"There is a mortal not even a GoD can defeat. That GoD happens to be stronger than Beerus." - an angel who knows Beerus' full power. No one ever differentiates GoDs from one another in terms of power. And he was stated as the most powerful foe in DB history. Even Champa, described as weaker than Beerus would fight Beerus to a stalemate, It's safe to assume they are all nearly equal.
Broly, who was Goku's "strongest enemy ever" is only "probably" stronger than Jiren. We know that Broly>LB Jiren>Full-Power Jiren>Belmod, yet there is some level of uncertainty comparing Beerus and Broly. For that to be the case, Beerus would have to be substantially stronger than Belmod. And again, the source material only draws any comparison with Beerus, from a damn arm wrestling match that should be taken with a grain of salt.
"There is a mortal not even a GoD can defeat. That GoD happens to be stronger than Beerus." - an angel who knows Beerus' full power. No one ever differentiates GoDs from one another in terms of power. And he was stated as the most powerful foe in DB history. Even Champa, described as weaker than Beerus would fight Beerus to a stalemate, It's safe to assume they are all nearly equal.
Broly, who was Goku's "strongest enemy ever" is only "probably" stronger than Jiren. We know that Broly>LB Jiren>Full-Power Jiren>Belmod, yet there is some level of uncertainty comparing Beerus and Broly. For that to be the case, Beerus would have to be substantially stronger than Belmod. And again, the source material only draws any comparison with Beerus, from a damn arm wrestling match that should be taken with a grain of salt.
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For now I have Base Jiren > FP Broly >= Beerus until more info is given. While MUI and UBW may be weaker than Gogeta Blue since it was said and shown that Gogeta was really casual in that battle
Jiren (and even UIO3 Goku) were compared to GoDs in many instances and we have no evidence that Belmod (whom is weaker than Base Jiren) is any weaker than Beerus at all if anything we have an small statement made by Whis that was kinda denied by Beerus but kinda points to Jiren > Beerus imo.
Jiren (and even UIO3 Goku) were compared to GoDs in many instances and we have no evidence that Belmod (whom is weaker than Base Jiren) is any weaker than Beerus at all if anything we have an small statement made by Whis that was kinda denied by Beerus but kinda points to Jiren > Beerus imo.
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The only evidence I can think of for GoDs being wildly different from each other in power either comes from the manga or from Sidra being the worst GoD, but he seems to be a special case since he's the most pacifistic GoD. Giin's implication of superiority likely comes from the fact that his universe has the 2nd highest mortal level and was exempt from the Tournament of Power. We know Arak, Iwan, and Liquiir are at least somewhat comparable from their sparring match stalemate. Beerus and Champa are comparable and Beerus only lost to Belmod in an arm restling match and we know how iffy Lifting Strength is in Dragon Ball. If a half of the GoDs are shown comparable to each other why can this not extend to the rest of them?PFM18 said:
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I find it fishy that Toriyama and Toyotaro both confidently believe Broly is the strongest. Not only was Broly the only character compared to Beerus but Jiren only had hints of his power and he was never once compared to Beerus.
Strange isn't it.
Strange isn't it.
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Whis compared them though, Plus a lot of other beyond GoD level statements that is. Whis' statements never have been denied and were made for something, Plus he is one of the most reliable sources in DB lol.
And implying Beerus is close to MUI is also implying Beerus would mop the floor with Belmod when no material be Anime or Manga has them that far from each other.
And btw Anime/Manga are very different in scaling purposes. Broly could indeed be the strongest Manga-wise.
And implying Beerus is close to MUI is also implying Beerus would mop the floor with Belmod when no material be Anime or Manga has them that far from each other.
And btw Anime/Manga are very different in scaling purposes. Broly could indeed be the strongest Manga-wise.
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Honestly, Broly being compared to Beerus is much more impressive than Jiren hiding behind some vague statement like "muh strongest mortal MAYBE stronger than a god"
I mean, UI is described as "the domain of gods" and "limit breaking power of gods" and it mopped the floor with Jiren even after he broke his limit. Not once was UI refered to as "power beyond gods of destruction" there is so much assumption going on in this fandom.
Beerua was a big goal and a benchmark for many years throughout the series. Him being surpassed without even being mentioned is ludicrous.
I mean, UI is described as "the domain of gods" and "limit breaking power of gods" and it mopped the floor with Jiren even after he broke his limit. Not once was UI refered to as "power beyond gods of destruction" there is so much assumption going on in this fandom.
Beerua was a big goal and a benchmark for many years throughout the series. Him being surpassed without even being mentioned is ludicrous.
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It's stated both in the anime and in his Toei profile that Jiren is GoD level. He's not magically far weaker than Beerus because of a quote from a magazine that was never even used in the anime. The only maybe from Whis is if he outright surpasses all of them rather than being on the same level.
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We should make a DB Discord server.
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That would make DB even weaker than it already is.
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Well Beerus is kinda of an exception for having that reliable EE that wouldn't fail because his massive AP (tho it would make him pretty much fodder against 2-Cs as he won't have an AP advantage which would make his EE useless) but Hit isn't lucky.
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Resistance via AP would only apply for DB characters because it's shown as a property of ki though (and any franchise that showed that their power systeme granted hax resistance, which is a lot more common than VS wiki and a lot of VS sites want to admit because Hax are often judged in biased way, it's basicaly the only thing that everyone absolve of the 'need feats and statements' rule).
Also i'm pretty sure 3D hax can't work on 4D characters according to the site's standard so Beerus's EE wouldn't work on a 2-C anyway.
Also i'm pretty sure 3D hax can't work on 4D characters according to the site's standard so Beerus's EE wouldn't work on a 2-C anyway.
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We really doAwkguyDB said:
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Who did Whis compare who to who? For all we know, Whis implied that Belmod or whoever it really was was stronger to "mock" Beerus, but that got quickly dimissed thus meaning that arm wrestling is not a indicator of raw power/fighting abilities.Omegas03 said:
No, there have been instances where Whis has stated something and has been corrected/dismissed, he even retracted one of his statements. Him being reliable dosent render the fact that the guides are more reliable than Whis, especially when one which states that 130 MUI Goku is scaled to Beerus and has no contradictions to that whatsoever.
Code:
Can you show me scans where Whis explicitly states that Jiren > G.O.D's?
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You missed the point. There is little evidence either way, evidence they are far apart or close, if anything, the fact that Broly>Jiren, and yet Jiren>Belmod and Broly is "probably" stronger than Beerus, suggests Beerus is substantially stronger than Belmod is. You can't just assume that they aren't far apart, and just use that premise as evidence.Roun12 said:
But there is Gin saying that he didn't join the fight with the exempt GoDs because "the outcome is obvious" or something along those lines. Basically he suggested that if he were involved it would be ugly, and nobody seemed to contest it.
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Omg I just realized that, along with this site asserting that BoG SSG Goku<<<<<<Base Goku(in which the rationalization uses fabricated evidence), and that Piccolo is ******* universal, there is additional nonsense:
-It just assumes that Goku is as fast as a casual flight Beerus. Beerus used an arbitrary amount of power against Goku, but definitely less than .1% to say the least, and to assume that he used a similarly miniscule amount of power to fly around is erroneous.
-That current SSB Goku and 1st Omen Goku is stronger than "Infinite Zamasu". I presume this is extrapolating from the Kaioshin quote in the TV special, which this premise can only hold true if you: 1) cherrypick the implications that you want and don't want, and 2) That Goku's 1st Omen is GoD level and stronger than Belmod or at least on his level.
Losing hope in this site.
-It just assumes that Goku is as fast as a casual flight Beerus. Beerus used an arbitrary amount of power against Goku, but definitely less than .1% to say the least, and to assume that he used a similarly miniscule amount of power to fly around is erroneous.
-That current SSB Goku and 1st Omen Goku is stronger than "Infinite Zamasu". I presume this is extrapolating from the Kaioshin quote in the TV special, which this premise can only hold true if you: 1) cherrypick the implications that you want and don't want, and 2) That Goku's 1st Omen is GoD level and stronger than Belmod or at least on his level.
Losing hope in this site.
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I didn't, the whole '4D and 3D' stuff is dumb as shit IMO but as far as i know, that's how it works here.
The whole Tiering System, the basis of this whole site, is based on the infinite difference between dimensions, so yeah, 3D and 4D aren't even close to being comparable at all.
The whole Tiering System, the basis of this whole site, is based on the infinite difference between dimensions, so yeah, 3D and 4D aren't even close to being comparable at all.
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@PFM Pretty sure you were debunked in a thread before by nearly everyone in the thread. Sorry if its the wrong person, but if you can't even prove your arguments, its pretty petty to just continue to complain.
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