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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 83

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I actually think Super's bad powerscaling, most of the time at least, was due to the misuse of Ki Suppression. Goku and Vegeta were so strong that they should of been able to dick on 85% of the ToP without the use of SSJ forms. For example, here were the Trio De Danger struggling as a unit to take down a solo Base Goku. Vegeta came in to even the odds and they both went SSJ for I guess an extra power amp but for some reason these two decided to jump 2-3 levels just to overwhem them when they were getting the job done just fine as SSJs. Goku just constantly went SSJB for no reason against weaker opponents. I get that he wasn't trying to eliminate dudes right away because he was testing everyone's strength and abilities but Whis literally said ahead of time that Goku should refrain from using his Blue form to conserve.
 
AwkguyDB said:
I actually think Super's bad powerscaling, most of the time at least, was due to the misuse of Ki Suppression. Goku and Vegeta were so strong that they should of been able to dick on 85% of the ToP without the use of SSJ forms. For example, here were the Trio De Danger struggling as a unit to take down a solo Base Goku. Vegeta came in to even the odds and they both went SSJ for I guess an extra power amp but for some reason these two decided to jump 2-3 levels just to overwhem them when they were getting the job done just fine as SSJs. Goku just constantly went SSJB for no reason against weaker opponents. I get that he wasn't trying to eliminate dudes right away because he was testing everyone's strength and abilities but Whis literally said ahead of time that Goku should refrain from using his Blue form to conserve.
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People just considered the scailing bad in the TOP because they can't get through their head that you can't both power up enough to uber blitz your opponent without also punching a hole through them.
 
Dragomer said:
A Stoned Orc said:
Unpopular (but likely correct) opinion: Power levels have always been an incoherent mess, because they're supposed to be.
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No, they aren't and it's an absolutly wrong 'opinion' directly said false by the author, Toriyama said DIRECTLY he stopped using them because they gave away who would win the fight too easily.
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Toriyama says different things over the years. He's also said before that the whole point of scouters exploding was to emphasize that power levels were incomprehensible in that way. If they can't be mathematically expressed, then Occam's Razor says they make no logical sense to begin with, since mathematics is pure logic.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Dragomer said:
A Stoned Orc said:
Unpopular (but likely correct) opinion: Power levels have always been an incoherent mess, because they're supposed to be.
Click to expand...
No, they aren't and it's an absolutly wrong 'opinion' directly said false by the author, Toriyama said DIRECTLY he stopped using them because they gave away who would win the fight too easily.
Click to expand...
Toriyama says different things over the years. He's also said before that the whole point of scouters exploding was to emphasize that power levels were incomprehensible in that way. If they can't be mathematically expressed, then Occam's Razor says they make no logical sense to begin with, since mathematics is pure logic.
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No, Toriyama never said otherwise, he stated that was his reason and never said otherwise or gave any other reason.

Proof Toriyama even said that ?

And they can be mathematicaly expressed, they litteraly are, multiple time, we're given the goddamn numbers so Occam's razor isn't saying anything beyond 'if the author said it was too accurate, then it was too accurate'.
 
AwkguyDB said:
Ya'll think that's an insane power amp? How about Gohan regaining his Boo Saga power and then fight on par with Post FT arc Fusion Zamasu in roughly 9 hours of training lol.
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when did gohan fight fusion zamasu? unless you talking about db heroes
 
ArgosaxDespair said:
Shouldn't Cabba's profile have "Super Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan 2" tabs instead of "SSJ1" and "SSJ2" since there's a lot of space?
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Yeah I agree and also we should update his SSJ2 picture.

Dccg4u5-0c3aadfa-79a1-4743-a726-164c4c6b3482
 
Dragomer said:
-snip-
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I mean, when time and time again the show proves that giving them a numerical value is an adventure in folly (even the latest Freeza Force scouter as worn by Cheelai in DBS:Broly could only detect up to 99,999 before a safety feature clicked it off to prevent it from exploding), I'm pretty sure they're meant to be taken about as seriously and matter-of-fact as anything Mr. Satan says in front of a camera.

Power levels are bullshit, and they always have been. Nail, who got easily stomped by First Form Freeza, was clocked by Freeza's scouter at 42,000 when he powered up. Piccolo could not have possibly been much stronger when he fused with Nail, yet somehow he's able to fight with Second Form Freeza with no problems. If Namekian fusion worked by addition, Piccolo would have gotten stomped. If Namekian fusion worked by multiplication, and even if Piccolo and Nail were even in strength, Piccolo's power level would have made even 100% Final Form Freeza (whom the semi-reliable databooks states has a power level of 150,000,000) look weak, as he'd have a power level of 1,764,000,000---or 1.764 billion.

Power levels have always been an arbitrary concept. DBSuper is just rolling with it and having fun with it. Considering the story framework is laid out by Toriyama himself, you can attribute the major plot instances of power level fuckery in the series to the man himself.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Dragomer said:
-snip-
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Click to expand...
I mean, when time and time again the show proves that giving them a numerical value is an adventure in folly (even the latest Freeza Force scouter as worn by Cheelai in DBS:Broly could only detect up to 99,999 before a safety feature clicked it off to prevent it from exploding), I'm pretty sure they're meant to be taken about as seriously and matter-of-fact as anything Mr. Satan says in front of a camera.
Power levels are bullshit, and they always have been. Nail, who got easily stomped by First Form Freeza, was clocked by Freeza's scouter at 42,000 when he powered up. Piccolo could not have possibly been much stronger when he fused with Nail, yet somehow he's able to fight with Second Form Freeza with no problems. If Namekian fusion worked by addition, Piccolo would have gotten stomped. If Namekian fusion worked by multiplication, and even if Piccolo and Nail were even in strength, Piccolo's power level would have made even 100% Final Form Freeza (whom the semi-reliable databooks states has a power level of 150,000,000) look weak, as he'd have a power level of 1,764,000,000---or 1.764 billion.

Power levels have always been an arbitrary concept. DBSuper is just rolling with it and having fun with it. Considering the story framework is laid out by Toriyama himself, you can attribute the major plot instances of power level fuckery in the series to the man himself.

No, that doesn't mean they are bulshit, it mean technology doesn't grow as fast as the characters's power, that's all.

And when every single time a fight happened, the one with the highter power level won, i'm pretty sure it mean they work, like the author himself said.

Power level aren't bulshit and repeating a meme again and again won't make it true, Nail had a PL of 42K and fought Freezer who had a PL of 530000 and got the shit beaten out of him.

Except Fusion is openly OP in dragon ball, for all we know it multiplier Piccolo's power by 42K or it added their PL and multiplied, who the hell know ? what we do know is that it rised Piccolo's power level to be above Second Form Freezer.

No, Power level have always been a very clear indicator of who was stronger, 4K Nappa had no chance to even scratch 18K Vegeta, we litteraly never saw someone with a lower power level win, the only way to win was always to grow your power level beyond the other guys, like with Radditz, who was winning until Piccolo raised his PL above Radditz's thanks to his makokansappo.

There is no power level fuckery, they are clear number that Toriyama said gave away who would win in a fight too much to keep using them and what we see in the actual manga fit that.
 
Kidkinsey said:
AwkguyDB said:
Ya'll think that's an insane power amp? How about Gohan regaining his Boo Saga power and then fight on par with Post FT arc Fusion Zamasu in roughly 9 hours of training lol.
Click to expand...
when did gohan fight fusion zamasu? unless you talking about db heroes
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Oops mean't Goku
 
Anyone has the scan where Trunks say timelines are created over the smallest change or something like that in the original manga ?
 
Zamasu's interference in Future Trunks' timeline means there's also a branch timeline where the whole Zamasu thing never happened.
 
I don't know if it's just me, but these render links are leading me nowhere. The ones posted by AwkguyDB are leading me to the actual render, but the ones posted by Spinoirr are leading me to an empty page.
 
ArgosaxDespair said:
I don't know if it's just me, but these render links are leading me nowhere. The ones posted by AwkguyDB are leading me to the actual render, but the ones posted by Spinoirr are leading me to an empty page.
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same here maybe he was logged in to Deviant at the time
 
Ah shit, here we go again.

Vegeta's voice actor: "I just had a meeting at Toei Animation!! But I won't tell you what it is!"

He used the hashtags: #voiceactor #toeianimation and #dragonball.

76717402 2530437337011866 2523485928568127488 n
 
Then what's the correct one? IIRC all translations more or less say the same thing.
 
Dragomer said:
AKM sama said:
Then what's the correct one? IIRC all translations more or less say the same thing.
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According to him, the correct one is the Viz translation, here : https://i.imgur.com/NqzYo1a.jpg
That's what he claim at least, i personaly have no idea.
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viz tends to change things a lot in translations. so getting the japanese scan to see would be better.


i remember discussing with someone who believe Jiren was weaker than belmod in the manga strength wise because the viz translation stated he was only superior skill wise, even tho the original japanese scan stated it was 'battle power'
 
Ovrhide said:
Dragomer said:
AKM sama said:
Then what's the correct one? IIRC all translations more or less say the same thing.
Click to expand...
According to him, the correct one is the Viz translation, here : https://i.imgur.com/NqzYo1a.jpg
That's what he claim at least, i personaly have no idea.
Click to expand...
viz tends to change things a lot in translations. so getting the japanese scan to see would be better.


i remember discussing with someone who believe Jiren was weaker than belmod in the manga strength wise because the viz translation stated he was only superior skill wise, even tho the original japanese scan stated it was 'battle power'
Click to expand...
As i said, it's only what the subreddit mod told me and the viz thing is the only thing he gave, nothing else, i personaly don't know either way.

Though i'm VERY doubtful of Viz translation, i trust Kazenshuu more.
 
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