Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Ryzen7900X]

your assertion is that as well, since you are using for speed, aka he would take his time to travel all the way across the universe to destroy, which can only be found for speed with a time frame, which we don't have, making it not really useful for calcing speed

we don't need to calc anything, I'm just showing everyone here why even narratively the fact that Cell is implied to be an imminent threat to every celestial body means not only is his current speed rating bunk but anything less than MFTL+ is just wrong. As for the calc part it really doesnt need to be calced since flight speed is useless for combat anyway and many characters on here often get a blanket "MFTL+" when a statement is too vague to calc

Perfect Cell, as shown in the ending of the saga, had all the capabilities to grow to a Solar System level of destruction, which would make destroying the universe overtime not really hard to do

no you're wrong. even with 4-B AP, going around with MHS+ speed and solar system level range, destroying the universe is an almost impossible task regardless of how long he lives (which isn't long at all since unlike the cyborgs, Cell isnt stated to never age). And why is Perfect Cell relevant here anyway? Absoring 17 wont make him perfect or solar system level and its debatable if he's even referring to post-17 absorption Cell or the current one in front of him. Regardless, the statement makes 0 sense with his current ratings and further statements in the Buu saga prove that it isn't inconsistent

 

[RedReaper616]

Perfect Cell, as shown in the ending of the saga, had all the capabilities to grow to a Solar System level of destruction, which would make destroying the universe overtime not really hard to do

Nobody, not even CELL HIMSELF, knew that he could have grown into a Solar System buster from the immense Zenkai Boosts granted by his regeneration (or that his regeneration covered that amount of damage, as Zenkai’s come in proportion to damage TAKEN.) So 16’s statement physically cannot apply to Super Perfect Cell. Even making it apply to Perfect is a stretch, because Super Vegeta was a world away/incomprehensible in power to him.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

the reason I'm proposing these statements for speed instead of AP upgrades is because with AP upgrades we need to be much more specific and try to think about what it means. We cant just throw a blanket "3-B Multi-Galaxy level" and call it a day but speed doesnt have that kind of problem thankfully you can be a bit more vague with how high into MFTL+ someone is especially if its simply travel speed

 

[Omegabronic]

we don't need to calc anything, I'm just showing everyone here why even narratively the fact that Cell is implied to be an imminent threat to every celestial body means not only is his current speed rating bunk but anything less than MFTL+ is just wrong.

"Imminent"? outside of the "Perfect Cell point" i put bellow........where are you seeing "Imminent" from that? it is just said "he wants to destroy the universe" no time frame given to say "Imminent"

As for the calc part it really doesnt need to be calced since flight speed is useless for combat anyway and many characters on here often get a blanket "MFTL+" when a statement is too vague to calc

Considering that DB's flight is accepted as being less than their combat speed, whatever flight speed he has would directly scale to his combat speed

no you're wrong. even with 4-B AP, going around with MHS+ speed and solar system level range, destroying the universe is an almost impossible task regardless of how long he lives

the galaxy only has 3,000ish solar systems, he only needs a couple tillion of blasts to destroy a large portion, or even all the universe, which is very possible to do given the AP he would have

(which isn't long at all since unlike the cyborgs, Cell isnt stated to never age).

we don't know that, to say that it isn't long is not really supported at all

And why is Perfect Cell relevant here anyway? Absoring 17 wont make him perfect or solar system level and its debatable if he's even referring to post-17 absorption Cell or the current one in front of him.

it is very clear he is talking about post absorption, complete cell, since stopping him from absorbing both 17 and 18 is what he wants to do in the context where he is saying the statement

Regardless, the statement makes 0 sense with his current ratings and further statements in the Buu saga prove that it isn't inconsistent

the statements in the Buu saga more or less follow the same i have been saying, specially since Buu we know lives a ridiculous long lifespan

Nobody, not even CELL HIMSELF, knew that he could have grown into a Solar System buster from the immense Zenkai Boosts granted by his regeneration (or that his regeneration covered that amount of damage, as Zenkai’s come in proportion to damage TAKEN.) So 16’s statement physically cannot apply to Super Perfect Cell. Even making it apply to Perfect is a stretch, because Super Vegeta was a world away/incomprehensible in power to him.

he had the capability to go that far, it shows that 16's fears were true

 

[Omegabronic]

the reason I'm proposing these statements for speed instead of AP upgrades is because with AP upgrades we need to be much more specific and try to think about what it means. We cant just throw a blanket "3-B Multi-Galaxy level" and call it a day but speed doesnt have that kind of problem thankfully you can be a bit more vague with how high into MFTL+ someone is especially if its simply travel speed

no you can't, doing place holder ratings is not a good practice, we archive a characters statistics, to not show them because "it isn't important for combat" which is not true in the slightiest in this case btw is just being lazy, outside of the fact that this would directly impact combat speed, which makes your point even more not true, want MFTL+ Travel speed for Cell saga onwards? ok, find a time frame and calculate, that is how this works on this site

 

[Cass5373]

There is no estimated time but it is known that Cell has "Possible type 1 immortality" which is actually unnecessary since the one who has it is Piccolo junior (who despite that has also been seen aging like DBO). I don't understand why a wish that only involves Piccolo and Piccolo Junior also applies to Cell, who has his cells and those of several other characters and is not an incarnation of Piccolo, just a being made from him. Another fact is that it is known that it does not have all the abilities of the characters that are part of it, as in the case of the infinite stamina of the androids...

 

[Cass5373]

First of all, we have to remove Cell's type 1 immortality.

 

[Cass5373]

The only thing Cell has is the longevity of the Saiyans, demons of the cold and Namekian who, for the most part, perhaps reach 400 years (being exaggerated), traveling through the galaxy in such a short period with a flight speed of MHS+ is impossible, The nearest star is 4 light years away... it is impossible for it to live to destroy every star in our galaxy even...

 

[Cass5373]

Either Cell is more powerful than we think or he is faster, choose your poison.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

who despite that has also been seen aging like DBO

no he hasn't

 

[Deleted member 40688]

Or it's an exaggeration

 

[RedReaper616]

he had the capability, it shows that 16's fears were true

While this is true, 16’s fears WERE verified, the information 16 was working on objectively was not “he could blow up solar systems.” It was vastly more likely he was referring to the information projected by the Supercomputer (which is already out of date/wrong because it didn’t account for the changes in the Z-Fighters PL relative to the 3 years training for 19 and 20, and definitely could not adequately cover the present Cell, who had engorged himself on hundreds of thousands of humans specifically because his power output, {which is literally decided by the Supercomputer that made him}, was lower than 17’s and thus literally could not quantify Cell’s strength trajectory. Even assuming 16 was calculating that trajectory in the present moment with his Supercomputer Brain, this same brain still wouldn’t be operating on the understanding a “Super Perfect Cell” could even exist.

Edit: That’s to say, it’s vastly more likely it was interpreting Cell’s power as a “Large Star Buster” or what have you, not Solar Systems, and he’d clear out the Universe over time one planet and Star at a time.

 

[Cass5373]

no he hasn't

Mmm...maybe.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

as in the case of the infinite stamina of the androids

The Infinite Energy Reactors are mechanical, not biological, hence why Marron didn't inherit unlimited stamina. Eternal youth is, seeing as how Piccolo inherited it from being King Piccolo's genetic duplicate.

 

[Deleted member 40688]

Isn't there like infite galaxy in db? So how is he going to destroy one planet at a time?

 

[Killerdrone123]

Ngl ending the universe with just hypersonic + speeds sounds more like impossible he should atleast be mftl isn't there a bare minimum value we could take for it

 

[Killerdrone123]

Isn't there like infite galaxy in db? So how is he going to destroy one planet at a time?

Infinite universe is no longer accepted on site

 

[Cass5373]

Or it's an exaggeration

Twice in the same saga, referring to the same character and that these statements come from two sources that do not exaggerate?

 

[Deleted member 40688]

Infinite universe is no longer accepted on site

I'm not talking about infite uni, inf galaxy as I remember is directly stated in daizhenshuu

 

[Omegabronic]

While this is true, 16’s fears WERE verified, the information 16 was working on objectively was not “he could blow up solar systems.” It was vastly more likely he was referring to the information projected by the Supercomputer (which is already out of date/wrong because it didn’t account for the changes in the Z-Fighters PL relative to the 3 years training for 19 and 20, and definitely could not adequately cover the present Cell, who had engorged himself on hundreds of thousands of humans specifically because his power output, {which is literally decided by the Supercomputer that made him}, was lower than 17’s and thus literally could not quantify Cell’s strength trajectory. Even assuming 16 was calculating that trajectory in the present moment with his Supercomputer Brain, this same brain still wouldn’t be operating on the understanding a “Super Perfect Cell” could even exist.

yeah, Cell's growth shows that he could grow to such heights that even Gero's supercomputer couldn't proccess should be used to make Cell "Extrordinary Genius" combatant, not ironic remark, an observation of mine so, it isn't too outlandish to see this growth as the danger, considering that in the end he reached Solar System busting levels of power, i wouldn't consider so weird to think that this is where 16's fears lied

Edit: That’s to say, it’s vastly more likely it was interpreting Cell’s power as a “Large Star Buster” or what have you, not Solar Systems, and he’d clear out the Universe over time one planet and Star at a time.

large star level is not enough to destroy the entire universe tho, going that route you should upgrade Cell to solar system level, neutron stars that that high to destroy iirc

 

[Killerdrone123]

I'm not talking about infite uni, inf galaxy as I remember is directly stated in daizhenshuu

That's literally the same infinite galaxy means an infinite universe

Plus that scan was used for infinite universe

 

[Cass5373]

I'm not talking about infite uni, inf galaxy as I remember is directly stated in daizhenshuu

Not accepted on this site

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm not talking about infite uni, inf galaxy as I remember is directly stated in daizhenshuu

.....if the universe is not accepted as infinite, then the galaxy(which is part of the universe) also isn't

 

[Cass5373]

The Infinite Energy Reactors are mechanical, not biological, hence why Marron didn't inherit unlimited stamina. Eternal youth is, seeing as how Piccolo inherited it from being King Piccolo's genetic duplicate.

Cell is not his genetic duplicate and I don't remember what his transfer of immortality is based on, Piccolo is the incarnation of Piccolo King who put his entire existence in that egg to be reborn.

 

[Deleted member 40688]

That's literally the same infinite galaxy means an infinite universe

Plus that scan was used for infinite universe

Not accepted on this site

.....if the universe is not accepted as infinite, then the galaxy(which is part of the universe) also isn't

That's crazy to me, denying an actual outright statement.

 

[Cass5373]

While this is true, 16’s fears WERE verified, the information 16 was working on objectively was not “he could blow up solar systems.” It was vastly more likely he was referring to the information projected by the Supercomputer (which is already out of date/wrong because it didn’t account for the changes in the Z-Fighters PL relative to the 3 years training for 19 and 20, and definitely could not adequately cover the present Cell, who had engorged himself on hundreds of thousands of humans specifically because his power output, {which is literally decided by the Supercomputer that made him}, was lower than 17’s and thus literally could not quantify Cell’s strength trajectory. Even assuming 16 was calculating that trajectory in the present moment with his Supercomputer Brain, this same brain still wouldn’t be operating on the understanding a “Super Perfect Cell” could even exist.

Edit: That’s to say, it’s vastly more likely it was interpreting Cell’s power as a “Large Star Buster” or what have you, not Solar Systems, and he’d clear out the Universe over time one planet and Star at a time.

Honestly very far-fetched.

 

[RedReaper616]

Cell is not his genetic duplicate and I don't remember what his transfer of immortality is based on, Piccolo is the incarnation of Piccolo King who put his entire existence in that egg to be reborn.

Cell has Piccolo’s total genetic code in his body, and we know Piccolo inherited it as his Reincarnation (Daizenshuu 2), but we don’t know if Cell did for sure, HENCE the “possibly” rating.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not accepted on this site

L tbh.

Yes I am not kidding.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The Infinite Energy Reactors are mechanical, not biological, hence why Marron didn't inherit unlimited stamina. Eternal youth is, seeing as how Piccolo inherited it from being King Piccolo's genetic duplicate.

I ended up forgetting that Piccolo has eternal youth

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Honestly very far-fetched.

Hyperbole, poetry, that was the argument.

 

[Cass5373]

Cell has Piccolo’s total genetic code in his body, and we know Piccolo inherited it as his Reincarnation (Daizenshuu 2), but we don’t know if Cell did for sure, HENCE the “possibly” rating.

Yes, I understand that but we continue with the same topic, when Piccolo King gave birth to the egg he put his entire existence into it, Cell not only has Piccolo's cells but also those of Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, etc. They are not the same beings. and as we know, Cell gets tired when fighting unlike androids.

 

[Cass5373]

I ended up forgetting that Piccolo has eternal youth

He has it but Cell has no reason to have it.

 

[RedReaper616]

yeah, Cell's growth shows that he could grow to such heights that even Gero's supercomputer couldn't proccess should be used to make Cell "Extrordinary Genius" combatant, not ironic remark, an observation of mine so, it isn't too outlandish to see this growth as the danger, considering that in the end he reached Solar System busting levels of power, i wouldn't consider so weird to think that this is where 16's fears lied

Like I said, though, the incongruity in data available means it straight up cannot be referring to SPC, even if he was validated.

large star level is not enough to destroy the entire universe tho, going that route you should upgrade Cell to solar system level, neutron stars that that high to destroy iirc

I don’t think Cell’s output should be heightened. I just want to clarify what 16 meant at that moment.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hyperbole, poetry, that was the argument.

Tbh I do think the Infinite Galaxies thing to be legit. The "contradictions" aren't really contradictions and are simply the result of authors not knowing the magnitudes of their tiers, like Goku used to become from 3-A to Low 2-C with just a x50 multiplier back in the days.

 

[RedReaper616]

Yes, I understand that but we continue with the same topic, when Piccolo King gave birth to the egg he put his entire existence into it, Cell not only has Piccolo's cells but also those of Goku, Frieza, Vegeta, etc. They are not the same beings. and as we know, Cell gets tired when fighting unlike androids.

So does Piccolo. Eternal Youth does not afford him infinite stamina. Just immunity to aging.

 

[Cass5373]

So does Piccolo. Eternal Youth does not afford him infinite stamina. Just immunity to aging.

What I tried to imply is that Cell does not have all the abilities of the beings that make him up and since there is no evidence or even allusion to Cell having type 1 immortality, it should be erased.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Tbh I do think the Infinite Galaxies thing to be legit. The "contradictions" aren't really contradictions and are simply the result of authors not knowing the magnitudes of their tiers, like Goku used to become from 3-A to Low 2-C with just a x50 multiplier back in the days.

To hundreds of quotes stating about infinite galaxies in guides, directors mentioning, although super uses an "incalculable number of galaxies like these"i don't think Bulma's word would refute the Universe being infinite, Jaco even refutes her about there not being something like that and saying it's impossible, in addition to Sheilong himself mentioning that he cannot find the super spheres because he has a very vast Universe.

 

[StrymULTRA]

i don't think Bulma's word would refute the Universe being infinite

Powerscalers when they get reminded that Infinite speed characters move from the beginning to the end of an infinite distance:

 

[Cass5373]

To hundreds of quotes stating about infinite galaxies in guides, directors mentioning, although super uses an "incalculable number of galaxies like these"i don't think Bulma's word would refute the Universe being infinite, Jaco even refutes her about there not being something like that and saying it's impossible, in addition to Sheilong himself mentioning that he cannot find the super spheres because he has a very vast Universe.

Well, next time look for those statements from the manga/anime/guides to prove that it really is infinite.

 

[RedReaper616]

Well, next time look for those statements from the manga/anime/guides to prove that it really is infinite.

I mean, most of the statements straight up come from guides, with Jaco’s being straight from the Anime and Manga.

Edit: The only contradiction is Bulma, whose assessment was literally never verified.