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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

AguilaR202 said:
the inmeasursble boost is only observed within the context of a vsdebates rating perspective so you can’t make a multiplier out of it, while the power difference out of universe might be infinite, within the series that may not even be the case

Itd be similar to making SS2 a 4,000x amp over SS1 because the former has an accepted statement at the KiloFOE range while SS1 is roughly around .25 FOE through scaling ( granted the ceiling for SS1 could be much higher but so is for all the characters SSG outscales)
Click to expand...
Yeah no.
It must be consistent with itself, you can't have, for example, a finite multiplier that makes a character go from "finite speed" to "infinite speed", either the base form was already infinite in speed all along, or said infinite speed isn't real, OR, the most likely, the multiplier is by definition, infinite.

In case of SS2, it already has a stated multiplier (which we don't ******* use), you can't cry wolf for SSG
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Yeah no.
It must be consistent with itself, you can't have, for example, a finite multiplier that makes a character go from "finite speed" to "infinite speed", either the base form was already infinite in speed all along, or said infinite speed isn't real, OR, the most likely, the multiplier is by definition, infinite.

In case of SS2, it already has a stated multiplier (which we don't ******* use), you can't cry wolf for SSG
Click to expand...

Multipliers we use for ratings are only accepted as they’re shown to exist in-universe, we can’t just pick two feats between two forms and extrapolate that the difference between both is the representation of the actual multiplier as it is supposed to work within the narrative.

The SS2/SS1 example is meant to illustrate that the observed differences in the tiering of two forms from a vsdebating standpoint has no bearing on what the actual power difference between those two forms is in-universe and multipliers are only taken to work the way the story itself says it works.

The only proof you’re posting atm that suggests SSG is an unmeasurable boost is that it has feats being rated at 2-C by vsdebates standards, and others (presumably, if only due to lack of hard powerceilings) are capped at 4-B, within the context of the story it is never stated that difference in power between base and SSG is literally unmeasurable.

It becomes a contradiction even, when characters who have no such forms at their disposal and use normal-ass ki and training can grow to its levels of power within finite amounts of time.
 
AguilaR202 said:
we can’t just pick two feats between two forms and extrapolate that the difference between both is the representation of the actual multiplier as it is supposed to work within the narrative.
Click to expand...
We absolutely can if that feat shows us that the multiplier that's currently accepted is flat out wrong.
We're not taking two different calculated values and comparing them, it's about a whole new tier of power.
 
Oh the chapter's gonna be out in like a week I didn't even realize.

I don't think Goku Vs. Gohan is actually confirmed yet right? Like, we're just hoping it's gonna happen?
 
Should the Ki Manipulation page include Adaptation via Training?

The air is very thin at Korin's tower and even less at Kami's Lookout. They were able to train and adapt to those conditions.

They could Train and adapt to gravity via a time chamber, gravity machine, or a specific planet should also be included.
 
Gasper said:
What about full powered SS Broly?
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Mid-diff's Jiren. Realistically speaking neither would stomp the other but if we're going on vague statements and really obscure scaling chains then it could be argued that Broly easily beats Jiren but I prefer a more logical perspective.
 
What's the deal with Goku needing a protection suit to go to the centre of the planet?
 
Last edited:
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Admitting you don't want Dragon Ball to leave tier 3 then turn around and expect support for a future CRT is certainly a tactic
Click to expand...
Unless you're biased these things are not mutually exclusive at all. Being a supporter doesn't mean you want upgrades all the time, that's a terrible mindset.
Also it's not a tactic for crying out loud, I'm trying to claim for a consistent setting, if that's not too much to ask.

"Hey why the hell do we reject THAT multiplier?"
"Because it's too low based on arbitrary irl decisions"
"Well, SSG's multiplier is also too low on these parameters"
"Now it doesn't count!"
"Well, then approve THAT multiplier again"
 
Gasper said:
People unironically still think Cell's statment of destroying Solar system is either hyperbole or an Outlier while the same people will defend superman being knocked out by the moon and say it's an Outlier. 💀
Click to expand...
This story about Cell not being a solar system is quite funny, as we have games, guides, websites, and derivatives mentioning

That's because you didn't see the Superman Prime One Million (full of hyperbole and people think he's 5D)
 
I always come onto this thread and see concerningly large amounts of whataboutism being spewed out. Like what is the correlation about Superman's tiering vs Cell's tiering? I think Cell is objectively Solar System Level, but it is 100% completely irrelevant to the discussion of Superman getting knocked out by a moon or being 5D, so I'd say that focus on Dragon Ball's own context and not on a completely unrelated verse.



Also I'm going to share this sprite animation because I think it's really good and incorporates Kaioken into SSB in a unique way
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I always come onto this thread and see concerningly large amounts of whataboutism being spewed out. Like what is the correlation about Superman's tiering vs Cell's tiering? I think Cell is objectively Solar System Level, but it is 100% completely irrelevant to the discussion of Superman getting knocked out by a moon or being 5D, so I'd say that focus on Dragon Ball's own context and not on a completely unrelated verse.



Also I'm going to share this sprite animation because I think it's really good and incorporates Kaioken into SSB in a unique way
Click to expand...

It's not whataboutism. Just today i saw people on comicvine downplay Goku and say stupid shit like "Goku can be burnt by lava" and the same guy just started compiling the scans when superman survived in the sun and shit. It's annoying, and i'm just gonna say it, superman fans downplay Goku the most.
 
Gasper said:
It's not whataboutism. Just today i saw people on comicvine downplay Goku and say stupid shit like "Goku can be burnt by lava" and the same guy just started compiling the scans when superman survived in the sun and shit. It's annoying, and i'm just gonna say it, superman fans downplay Goku the most.
Click to expand...
It's the same thing here too
 
Forget about Tier 1 Reactive Evolution or Uncountably Infinite SSG multiplier, has anyone attempted infinite speed off the reasoning that speed increases linearly with power in Dragon Ball, so their Tier 2 ratings entail uncountably infinite speed (I think this was Saint Seiya's infinite speed basis, but I might be wrong)?
 
Gasper said:
It's not whataboutism. Just today i saw people on comicvine downplay Goku and say stupid shit like "Goku can be burnt by lava" and the same guy just started compiling the scans when superman survived in the sun and shit. It's annoying, and i'm just gonna say it, superman fans downplay Goku the most.
Click to expand...
I mean it's Comicvine, what do you expect from them other then extraneous amounts of downplay towards Dragon Ball? It's better to just ignore them considering that, not only is Superman surviving in the sun irrelevant to the topic of Goku being able to survive in lava or not, but also because we both know that Goku can survive in lava thanks to DBS Broly. So it's just not worth really engaging with that place
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Forget about Tier 1 Reactive Evolution or Uncountably Infinite SSG multiplier, has anyone attempted infinite speed off the reasoning that speed increases linearly with power in Dragon Ball, so their Tier 2 ratings entail uncountably infinite speed (I think this was Saint Seiya's infinite speed basis, but I might be wrong)?
Click to expand...
I don't think so, we can try it
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Forget about Tier 1 Reactive Evolution or Uncountably Infinite SSG multiplier, has anyone attempted infinite speed off the reasoning that speed increases linearly with power in Dragon Ball, so their Tier 2 ratings entail uncountably infinite speed (I think this was Saint Seiya's infinite speed basis, but I might be wrong)?
Click to expand...
Yes, that was based on Saint Seiya, where infinite cosmos equals infinite speed, there is also mention of infinite attacks in EP G and they managed through that, according to DDM this does not qualify for infinite speed

vsbattles.com

Infinite Speed Saint seiya Upgrade

I don’t believe saint seiya God tiers should be Mftl+, but rather infinite speed. Here’s why. In Saint Seiya:Next Dimension, Saori describes the process of obtaining a god cloth as such. “ It is only revealed after it receives the goddess‘s blood and when the saint wearing it manages to burn...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Gasper said:
Can Oozaru tap into SS in canon?
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any explicit statements or proof that Great Apes can go Super Saiyan in canon. But considering that GT's Golden Great Apes are the result of going Great Ape when the user can become Super Saiyan, and even Heroes follows that concept with Cumber going Golden Great Ape due to that fact, then I can see Super introducing that to the continuity
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Forget about Tier 1 Reactive Evolution or Uncountably Infinite SSG multiplier, has anyone attempted infinite speed off the reasoning that speed increases linearly with power in Dragon Ball, so their Tier 2 ratings entail uncountably infinite speed (I think this was Saint Seiya's infinite speed basis, but I might be wrong)?
Click to expand...
Someone already tried it
 
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