Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Ednaxel2]

The actual best Goku

 

[Ednaxel2]

watch out y'all super saiyan multipliers might become worthless

Why's that?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Why's that?

Apparently it violates VSBW standards like here

Multipliers without reliable statements Dragon Ball Super Saiyan Multipliers: Rejected due to never being stated in the actual series. Furthermore often seem to multiply in-universe power levels and not actual power. They often seem inconsistent, like for example the x2 SSJ2 multiplier turning a stomp around.

And that super saiyan would be an unquantifiable boost in power instead of anything quantifiable.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Apparently it violates VSBW standards like here

And that super saiyan would be an unquantifiable boost in power instead of anything quantifiable.

Before it wasn't accepted but later on it was thanks to Kaio-ken multipliers

Kaio-ken x20 Goku Kamehameha =< 50% Frieza < 2x - 100% Frieza < SSJ Goku (50x base)

 

[Ednaxel2]

It supports the statements for SSJ which is also stated numerous times

 

[Nullflowerblush]

-snip-

I mean... Toriyama did supervise the Super Saiyan multipliers.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I mean... Toriyama did supervise the Super Saiyan multipliers.

Someone should probably get rid of that note in multipliers page considering how accepted stuff drastically contradicts that note.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

watch out y'all super saiyan multipliers might become worthless

Super already makes them worthless in the manga but y'all not ready for this conversation yet.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Also while we are at it can someone edit the cosmology blog note of db cosmology fully scaling to 2b and edit it with there are uncountable timelines instead

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Super already makes them worthless in the manga but y'all not ready for this conversation yet.

Expand on this.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Apparently it violates VSBW standards like here

And that super saiyan would be an unquantifiable boost in power instead of anything quantifiable.

This note is stupid.

It implies denying a multiplier because it's too low is an appropriate approach, when it undeniably makes the form even a lower end than what it would otherwise be. Please someone get the SSJ3 multipliers back in the game.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Expand on this.

I can pick a plentitude of examples where Goku's Base Form and SSJ form barely made a difference. (In performance against the same enemy)

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This note is stupid.

It implies denying a multiplier because it's too low is an appropriate approach, when it undeniably makes the form even a lower end than what it would otherwise be. Please someone get the SSJ3 multipliers back in the game.

SSJ3 multiplier (like 400x?) would be lower than currently accepted 500x (unless this was reverted but im not up to date with this) afaik

 

[Ednaxel2]

Someone should probably get rid of that note in multipliers page considering how accepted stuff drastically contradicts that note.

Same for Raiden, its never stated in a guide that Ripper Mode increases his power multiples by 7x, the guide is only used to support the multiplier's validity

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'd love to see aspects from the Galactic Patrol series beyond the Jaco manga be adapted into the modern age. I know an appearance from Sachie, or Zarid, or any of the main characters from Jiya is next to impossible, but the vampires, or the Mogans, or the Mil Clan might be cool.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Daima looks fantastic, eagerly awaiting for it. Though it doesn't seem to be that good on the feats aspect.

To be fair it imagine they won’t show it off at the beginning if they’re any impressive feats. High tier Demons likely will get some good hax though. According to Toriyama he’s had more involvement with this series than any other before. (Excluding Z and the original series). He says that the story will have “richer world-building” which is what I’m most excited about I love world building.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

SSJ3 multiplier (like 400x?) would be lower than currently accepted 500x (unless this was reverted but im not up to date with this) afaik

It's 4x SSJ2, which is 20x SSJ1.
It would be 4000x.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I made the thread for the multipliers

Multipliers page needs to be updated

Only a few examples need to be changed/altered First for Multipliers without reliable statements: Dragon Ball Super Saiyan Multipliers: Rejected due to never being stated in the actual series. Furthermore often seem to multiply in-universe power levels and not actual power. They often seem...

vsbattles.com

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'd love to see aspects from the Galactic Patrol series beyond the Jaco manga be adapted into the modern age. I know an appearance from Sachie, or Zarid, or any of the main characters from Jiya is next to impossible, but the vampires, or the Mogans, or the Mil Clan might be cool.

That would be really good, I saw Jiya's manga it's quite interesting

 

[RedReaper616]

It's 4x SSJ2, which is 20x SSJ1.
It would be 4000x.

I was under the impression that SSJ2 was 2x SSJ, not 20x. Unless the SEG Translation is off.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I was under the impression that SSJ2 was 2x SSJ, not 20x. Unless the SEG Translation is off.

We don't approve of the 2x multiplier because it's "too low to be true", which is stupid. Instead, we took a completely different multiplier for Grade 3, which is 10x according to The Legendary Manga guide, and used THAT to measure how strong SSJ2 is.

Perfect Cell is stronger than SSJ Gohan
Grade 3 Perfect Cell is 10x stronger than perfect cell
Super Perfect Cell is stronger than Grade 3 Cell
SSJ2 Gohan is 2x stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Thus, SSJ2 Gohan is 20x stronger than SSJ Gohan by proxy. And we assume this is the same boost everyone gets from this form.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I was under the impression that SSJ2 was 2x SSJ, not 20x. Unless the SEG Translation is off.

We get the SSJ2 multiplier via:

SSJ Gohan < Cell < Powerhouse (Grade 3) Perfect Cell (>10x) < Super Perfect Cell < 50% SSJ2 Gohan < 100% Gohan (2x)

 

[Ednaxel2]

We don't approve of the 2x multiplier because it's "too low to be true", which is stupid. Instead, we took a completely different multiplier for Grade 3, which is 10x according to The Legendary Manga guide, and used THAT to measure how strong SSJ2 is.

Perfect Cell is stronger than SSJ Gohan
Grade 3 Perfect Cell is 10x stronger than perfect cell
Super Perfect Cell is stronger than Grade 3 Cell
SSJ2 Gohan is 2x stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Thus, SSJ2 Gohan is 20x stronger than SSJ Gohan by proxy. And we assume this is the same boost everyone gets from this form.

aaaaaand you beat me to it

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Dragon Ball: Tien and Co back to 5-C (But I win this time)

This is a re-attempt of this. And a direct refutation of this. I won't be too long, I'll objectively prove Tien should be 5-C and there is nothing y'all can do about it. EDIT: TL;DR: 23rd Budokai Yamcha is 5-C, despite having a power level of 177, so Tien with a power level of 180 should...

vsbattles.com

I stopped playing around.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

SSJ Gohan < Cell < Powerhouse (Grade 3) Perfect Cell (>10x) < Super Perfect Cell < 50% SSJ2 Gohan < 100% Gohan (2x)

which, like, honestly should look like:

SSJ Gohan < Perfect Cell < Perfect Cell at Full Power < Powerhouse Cell (?x) < Revived Cell ~< SSJ Gohan at Full Power / 50% SSJ2 Gohan < SSJ2 Gohan (2x)

but that's just my opinion.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Dragon Ball: Tien and Co back to 5-C (But I win this time)

This is a re-attempt of this. And a direct refutation of this. I won't be too long, I'll objectively prove Tien should be 5-C and there is nothing y'all can do about it. EDIT: TL;DR: 23rd Budokai Yamcha is 5-C, despite having a power level of 177, so Tien with a power level of 180 should...

vsbattles.com

I stopped playing around.

Thank you. That thread greatly displeased me. It was illogical.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

which, like, honestly should look like:

but that's just my opinion.

Thaaat would be rejecting the Grade 3 multiplier, do you disagree with Cell's powerhouse being the same as Grade 3?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Do we rank fpssj as equal to ussj or equal to normal ssj

 

[Ednaxel2]

Do we rank fpssj as equal to ussj or equal to normal ssj

Grade 1 = Grade 4

 

[Phsccarvalho]

which, like, honestly should look like:

but that's just my opinion.

based

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Grade 1 = Grade 4

I see
So grade 3 =10x grade 4 in AP

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Thaaat would be rejecting the Grade 3 multiplier, do you disagree with Cell's powerhouse being the same as Grade 3?

I disagree with using the El Manga Legendario's assertion over how the form is depicted in-universe or over the Super Exciting Guide.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I disagree with using the El Manga Legendario's assertion over how the form is depicted in-universe or over the Super Exciting Guide.

Can you elaborate on how either of these contradict the assertion of the Spanish guide?

 

[Tipper17]

It brought it back when the only thing keeping the franchise alive were the games

Ehhhh not to say TFS didn't help keep things afloat but nah

 

[RedReaper616]

Can you elaborate on how either of these contradict the assertion of the Spanish guide?

The Spanish Guide asserts that the Grade 3 form is a 10x multiplier, and that (in another instance) SSJ2 is > SSJ Grade 3–But it doesn’t give a number.

At least, from what I recall.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Can you elaborate on how either of these contradict the assertion of the Spanish guide?

The thread wherein the multiplier was accepted is devoid of sufficient evidence supporting its notion. Nothing in the original series implies that the difference between Second and Third Grade was a difference of ten-times; a stomp can be achieved by a difference of less than two-times, as proven by Nappa, and Kaio-ken x3 Goku, Vegeta in the Namek Saga. The only evidence presented was that Trunks was now stronger than Perfect Cell, that was now stronger than Vegeta.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I just had a wild idea, and I want to know if it's been attempted before. So we accept that in Battle of Gods, Goku retained the power of a super saiyan god through accelerated development, right? Since he could reach 2-C via evolution, could we argue that Goku should be "possibly tier 1 through reactive evolution" (you know, since he evolves at uncountably infinite rates)?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I just had a wild idea, and I want to know if it's been attempted before. So we accept that in Battle of Gods, Goku retained the power of a super saiyan god through accelerated development, right? Since he could reach 2-C via evolution, could we argue that Goku should be "possibly tier 1 through reactive evolution" (you know, since he evolves at uncountably infinite rates)?

In truth no.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I just had a wild idea, and I want to know if it's been attempted before. So we accept that in Battle of Gods, Goku retained the power of a super saiyan god through accelerated development, right? Since he could reach 2-C via evolution, could we argue that Goku should be "possibly tier 1 through reactive evolution" (you know, since he evolves at uncountably infinite rates)?

Wouldn't it be NLF to assume that

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I just had a wild idea, and I want to know if it's been attempted before. So we accept that in Battle of Gods, Goku retained the power of a super saiyan god through accelerated development, right?

We does? I thought we only accepted it because he somehow learned how to control God Ki and made it part of his normal form (aka Saiyan beyond God)

Since he could reach 2-C via evolution, could we argue that Goku should be "possibly tier 1 through reactive evolution" (you know, since he evolves at uncountably infinite rates)?

Like @Killerdrone123 said, it would fall under NLF

Also, we can´t increase Goku´s 2-C rating to more universes even with his reactive evolution, so i don´t see why this would be different