- 3,449
- 2,224
The actual best Goku
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
- 3,449
- 2,224
Why's that?
- 5,417
- 6,222
Apparently it violates VSBW standards like here
And that super saiyan would be an unquantifiable boost in power instead of anything quantifiable.
- 3,449
- 2,224
Before it wasn't accepted but later on it was thanks to Kaio-ken multipliers
Kaio-ken x20 Goku Kamehameha =< 50% Frieza < 2x - 100% Frieza < SSJ Goku (50x base)
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,856
- 8,720
I mean... Toriyama did supervise the Super Saiyan multipliers.
- 5,417
- 6,222
Someone should probably get rid of that note in multipliers page considering how accepted stuff drastically contradicts that note.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
Super already makes them worthless in the manga but y'all not ready for this conversation yet.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
- 1,836
Also while we are at it can someone edit the cosmology blog note of db cosmology fully scaling to 2b and edit it with there are uncountable timelines instead
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
Expand on this.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
This note is stupid.
It implies denying a multiplier because it's too low is an appropriate approach, when it undeniably makes the form even a lower end than what it would otherwise be. Please someone get the SSJ3 multipliers back in the game.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
I can pick a plentitude of examples where Goku's Base Form and SSJ form barely made a difference. (In performance against the same enemy)
- 5,417
- 6,222
SSJ3 multiplier (like 400x?) would be lower than currently accepted 500x (unless this was reverted but im not up to date with this) afaik
- 3,449
- 2,224
Same for Raiden, its never stated in a guide that Ripper Mode increases his power multiples by 7x, the guide is only used to support the multiplier's validity
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,856
- 8,720
I'd love to see aspects from the Galactic Patrol series beyond the Jaco manga be adapted into the modern age. I know an appearance from Sachie, or Zarid, or any of the main characters from Jiya is next to impossible, but the vampires, or the Mogans, or the Mil Clan might be cool.
- 733
- 682
To be fair it imagine they won’t show it off at the beginning if they’re any impressive feats. High tier Demons likely will get some good hax though. According to Toriyama he’s had more involvement with this series than any other before. (Excluding Z and the original series). He says that the story will have “richer world-building” which is what I’m most excited about I love world building.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
It's 4x SSJ2, which is 20x SSJ1.
It would be 4000x.
- 3,449
- 2,224
I made the thread for the multipliers
vsbattles.com
Multipliers page needs to be updated
Only a few examples need to be changed/altered First for Multipliers without reliable statements: Dragon Ball Super Saiyan Multipliers: Rejected due to never being stated in the actual series. Furthermore often seem to multiply in-universe power levels and not actual power. They often seem...
- 12,254
- 6,206
That would be really good, I saw Jiya's manga it's quite interesting
- 2,728
- 3,223
I was under the impression that SSJ2 was 2x SSJ, not 20x. Unless the SEG Translation is off.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
We don't approve of the 2x multiplier because it's "too low to be true", which is stupid. Instead, we took a completely different multiplier for Grade 3, which is 10x according to The Legendary Manga guide, and used THAT to measure how strong SSJ2 is.
Perfect Cell is stronger than SSJ Gohan
Grade 3 Perfect Cell is 10x stronger than perfect cell
Super Perfect Cell is stronger than Grade 3 Cell
SSJ2 Gohan is 2x stronger than Super Perfect Cell.
Thus, SSJ2 Gohan is 20x stronger than SSJ Gohan by proxy. And we assume this is the same boost everyone gets from this form.
- 3,449
- 2,224
We get the SSJ2 multiplier via:
SSJ Gohan < Cell < Powerhouse (Grade 3) Perfect Cell (>10x) < Super Perfect Cell < 50% SSJ2 Gohan < 100% Gohan (2x)
- 3,449
- 2,224
aaaaaand you beat me to it
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
Dragon Ball: Tien and Co back to 5-C (But I win this time)
This is a re-attempt of this. And a direct refutation of this. I won't be too long, I'll objectively prove Tien should be 5-C and there is nothing y'all can do about it. EDIT: TL;DR: 23rd Budokai Yamcha is 5-C, despite having a power level of 177, so Tien with a power level of 180 should...
I stopped playing around.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,856
- 8,720
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
Thank you. That thread greatly displeased me. It was illogical.Dragon Ball: Tien and Co back to 5-C (But I win this time)
This is a re-attempt of this. And a direct refutation of this. I won't be too long, I'll objectively prove Tien should be 5-C and there is nothing y'all can do about it. EDIT: TL;DR: 23rd Budokai Yamcha is 5-C, despite having a power level of 177, so Tien with a power level of 180 should...
I stopped playing around.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
Thaaat would be rejecting the Grade 3 multiplier, do you disagree with Cell's powerhouse being the same as Grade 3?
- 1,680
- 1,312
Do we rank fpssj as equal to ussj or equal to normal ssj
- 3,449
- 2,224
Grade 1 = Grade 4
- 5,285
- 3,424
based
- 1,680
- 1,312
I see
So grade 3 =10x grade 4 in AP
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,856
- 8,720
I disagree with using the El Manga Legendario's assertion over how the form is depicted in-universe or over the Super Exciting Guide.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
Can you elaborate on how either of these contradict the assertion of the Spanish guide?
- 23,031
- 50,373
Ehhhh not to say TFS didn't help keep things afloat but nah
- 2,728
- 3,223
The Spanish Guide asserts that the Grade 3 form is a 10x multiplier, and that (in another instance) SSJ2 is > SSJ Grade 3–But it doesn’t give a number.
At least, from what I recall.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,856
- 8,720
The thread wherein the multiplier was accepted is devoid of sufficient evidence supporting its notion. Nothing in the original series implies that the difference between Second and Third Grade was a difference of ten-times; a stomp can be achieved by a difference of less than two-times, as proven by Nappa, and Kaio-ken x3 Goku, Vegeta in the Namek Saga. The only evidence presented was that Trunks was now stronger than Perfect Cell, that was now stronger than Vegeta.
- 1,426
- 3,583
I just had a wild idea, and I want to know if it's been attempted before. So we accept that in Battle of Gods, Goku retained the power of a super saiyan god through accelerated development, right? Since he could reach 2-C via evolution, could we argue that Goku should be "possibly tier 1 through reactive evolution" (you know, since he evolves at uncountably infinite rates)?
- 5,285
- 3,424
In truth no.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
- 1,836
Wouldn't it be NLF to assume that
- 6,938
- 7,317
We does? I thought we only accepted it because he somehow learned how to control God Ki and made it part of his normal form (aka Saiyan beyond God)
Like @Killerdrone123 said, it would fall under NLF
Also, we can´t increase Goku´s 2-C rating to more universes even with his reactive evolution, so i don´t see why this would be different
