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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Guys, does anyone really think they're going to be objective with their results?
I think they give too much power to users who have no idea about the tier system
 
Cass5373 said:
Guys, does anyone really think they're going to be objective with their results?
Click to expand...
Frankly, if Goku wins I'm just going to assume it was bias in wanting to make the result different and pander to Dragon Ball fans. If they tie I'll still think that. If Superman wins they'll probably use bad logic for it.

There is no way for me to buy this fight's result as totally unbiased and well researched with a clear conclusion. There is bound to be something intrinsically wrong.
 
Cass5373 said:
Guys, does anyone really think they're going to be objective with their results?
I think they give too much power to users who have no idea about the tier system
Click to expand...
There's seldom any objectivity in Vs debating (hence the debate). Even if the majority agrees, it doesn't always mean the minority is wrong by default (it wasn't that long ago the majority agreed the Sun orbits the Earth and the Moon was equal in size to the Sun).
 
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The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
The seldom any objectivity in Vs debating (hence the debate). Even if the majority agrees, it doesn't always mean the minority is wrong by default (it wasn't that long ago the majority agreed the Sun orbits the Earth and the Moon was equal in size to the Sun).
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with that, but what I mean is that they give a lot of power to the opinions of people who do not use our standards and who are quite impartial in their opinion and who are in turn self-absorbed in their opinion. ..
 
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Death Battle has gotten tremendously better over the years but they're still pretty bad or just decent about research, generally speaking, and not to mention Death Battle tries to pander to more casual audiences as well, so bringing in dimensional tiering and that more "complex" stuff is a struggle for them as it will conflict with the viewers who would literally have no idea what they're talking about, which is a lot of them, especially with characters like Goku involved who people don't typically view in that light (and if anyone here thinks casual audiences do, you are REALLY out-of-touch, the perspective of powerscalers is utterly different from normal audiences). They'll never use terms like "low multiversal" or anything they'll just say "wowzers this guy can destroy a universe 5,000 times over how crazy, but this guy can do it 50,000 times over!!".

Death Battle doesn't actually care very much about comparing the characters, Death Battle cares about making something entertaining that will garner a lot of views. But they'll still try to add convincing research and reasoning to make their video seem more official, concrete, and overall just sound. This has gotten stronger over the years, but in the early days of Death Battle you could see how little they cared.

Anyone remember when they intentionally halved Goku's speed so that they could make Goku slower than Superman without needing to redo their already very flawed "calculations", because they're too lazy to find actual reasons for Superman being faster than Goku? Good times.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
The seldom any objectivity in Vs debating (hence the debate). Even if the majority agrees, it doesn't always mean the minority is wrong by default (it wasn't that long ago the majority agreed the Sun orbits the Earth and the Moon was equal in size to the Sun).
Click to expand...
Fairly true, but there are some objective aspects of things as well. For example, it's objectively true that Goku and Beerus were going to destroy the universe with their clashes. Any further details beyond that are of subjective debate though.
 
I mean what always impressed me is how utterly lazy Death Battle always was, at least in the Goku Vs. Superman debates. Like. There are a TON of ways you can scale Superman above Goku in a way that's fairly reasonable and legitimate. Instead they just used a bunch of random nonsense bullshit in the first one to throw together two messes of arguments that MASSIVELY downplayed not just Goku but even Superman as well, and in the second one they didn't bother with providing any real evidence, they just miscontextualized some feats/statements, said Goku is strong but Superman infinitely strong, and left it at "Goku will get stronger but Superman is always strong enough and will never lose to anyone".

If they at least try this time, I'll give them some credit.
 
Honestly, I still can't, to this day, make up my mind over what was worst between Death Battle halving Goku's speed to make their calculations match with their narrative, or Death Battle saying that powerscaling is invalid and flawed. Like both of those things are just so awful lmao.

I still can't get over that they unironically pretended that Goku's base form just never got stronger and he was only able to use more transformations as the franchise continued, nothing else.
 
Robo432343 said:
would heroes goku stomp frontier superman if someone made a vs thread about it🗿
Click to expand...
Idk. If it's Universal Tree Goku I wonder if Frontier Superman has any answer to his hax whatsoever, I doubt it ngl, but I doubt Death Battle is using Universal Tree Goku in particular either.
 
RinneItachi said:
Anyone remember when they intentionally halved Goku's speed so that they could make Goku slower than Superman without needing to redo their already very flawed "calculations", because they're too lazy to find actual reasons for Superman being faster than Goku? Good times.
Click to expand...
Visual erorr iirc, the calc was correct
 
Quantu said:
Visual erorr iirc, the calc was correct
Click to expand...
They use it in the final comparison between Goku and Superman. Where they have Superman as being only about 4 times faster than Goku.

image.png


image.png


If they did the multipliers for the forms correctly on top of the Snake Way calc they used, Goku would be 254 billion km/hr here, perception blitzing Superman to hell and back, so instead of multiplying Goku's speed by 50 for Super Saiyan 1, they made his speed half of Goku's base form in Super Saiyan 1 to make him WAY slower than he should have been so that they didn't need to redo the speed.
 
RinneItachi said:
They use it in the final comparison between Goku and Superman. Where they have Superman as being only about 4 times faster than Goku.

image.png


image.png


If they did the multipliers for the forms correctly on top of the Snake Way calc they used, Goku would be 254 billion km/hr here, perception blitzing Superman to hell and back, so instead of multiplying Goku's speed by 50 for Super Saiyan 1, they made his speed half of Goku's base form in Super Saiyan 1 to make him WAY slower than he should have been so that they didn't need to redo the multipliers.
Click to expand...
The base speed is wrong (misstype), the SSJ2 Speed is correct.
 
Quantu said:
They conflated Travel Speed with Combat Speed which was a nightmare pre-DBS and without the DBZ Anime. For example, current DBZ manga Goku is Hypersonic+ in Super Saiyan 3 on this site.

The calc itself is also garbage, but I don't think they were malicious or purposefully changed numbers.
Click to expand...
Yeah fair enough. I always thought skewing the numbers like that was really far, even for them, and also too obvious.

And yeah they didn't even remotely understand the difference between combat speed and travel speed, or the difference between lifting strength and striking strength I guess.

Nah but base Goku by the end of GT being slower than lightning is crazy fr.
 
Cass5373 said:
Yes, I agree with that, but what I mean is that they give a lot of power to the opinions of people who do not use our standards and who are quite impartial in their opinion and who are in turn self-absorbed in their opinion. ..
Click to expand...
.....why should anyone be obligated to use our standards?
 
Tbh for death battle.....a lot of the distinctions of tier and haxes we use they mostly don't use, so i don't see a point in critizicing them based on a system they don't use

Omniversal level is hella no arround these parts
 
omegabronic said:
.....why should anyone be obligated to use our standards?
Click to expand...
I never said such a thing, but that both points of view may be correct (depending on each person's approach) but I think they are giving too much attention to Death Battle when according to several users it is not the most "objective" source, so I It seems like they give too much power to their final verdict, that it's up to you to continue doing it or not.
 
omegabronic said:
Tbh for death battle.....a lot of the distinctions of tier and haxes we use they mostly don't use, so i don't see a point in critizicing them based on a system they don't use

Omniversal level is hella no arround these parts
Click to expand...
Although I think Battle Vs has flaws in some scales, I feel that it is the most reliable site to give power scales and for this reason I was guided by this site instead of others to have an opinion on the matter.
 
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