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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

omegabronic said:
Why you all are assuming that hiz time stop and time skip are the same technique?
Click to expand...
Because one, Whis says that it’s the same ability as his own, so at worst it’s a different application of the same root technique, (all still reliant on the same Time he uses) and second, because when Hit uses what is clearly Time Stop—To barrage Goku’s body with blows—He says he accomplished this by IMPROVING his TIME SKIP. We also see that things like allowing others to move in time and the Times of Time, different things entirely, are still routed within Time Skip. He allows others to move in TS, and concentrates his stored TS time on Jiren.

So it’s either all Time Skip, or all connected to one larger Time Manip ability, and thus still directly conflated with Time Skip. Either way, it’s directly involved.
 
RedReaper said:
Because one, Whis says that it’s the same ability as his own, so at worst it’s a different application of the same root technique, (all still reliant on the same Time he uses) and second, because when Hit uses what is clearly Time Stop—To barrage Goku’s body with blows—He says he accomplished this by IMPROVING his TIME SKIP.
Click to expand...
it was still time skip, goku's eyes were moving during it even

like, how do you explain Vados' statement then? She straight up said that it isn't time stop

RedReaper said:
We also see that things like allowing others to move in time and the Times of Time, different things entirely, are still routed within Time Skip. He allows others to move in TS, and concentrates his stored TS time on Jiren.
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All instances of time stop were never said to be time skip

RedReaper said:
So it’s either all Time Skip, or all connected to one larger Time Manip ability, and thus still directly conflated with Time Skip. Either way, it’s directly involved.
Click to expand...
...or Hitt simply can manipulate time with several different techniques devianting from it
 
I definitely agree with Omega here it’s just multiple different time manipulation techniques. He can skip through time, stop time, etc. Pretty sure blud has an attack called time cage too he just has a plethora of different time manipulation attacks, I have no idea why y’all making this difficult.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
I definitely agree with Omega here it’s just multiple different time manipulation techniques. He can skip through time, stop time, etc. Pretty sure blud has an attack called time cage too he just has a plethora of different time manipulation attacks, I have no idea why y’all making this difficult.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was saying. Someone said hit being able to stop time was a 'retcon', I said hit can both stop and skip time, I never said anything about being how he did it specifically
 
It just freakingly simple, if Hit stop time, Goku could never be able to predict his attack, time is stopped, the consequense of event is stopped, and a person when in time stopped can't not think, thus can't predict. I said this multiple times
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
That's exactly what I was saying. Someone said hit being able to stop time was a 'retcon', I said hit can both stop and skip time, I never said anything about being how he did it specifically
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No, i said that the time skip being time stop was a retcon, the TIME SKIP specificaly
 
omegabronic said:
No, i said that the time skip being time stop was a retcon, the TIME SKIP specificaly
Click to expand...
I don't think they were arguing Time Skip was Time Stop specifically, unless this conversation is one giant game of telephone and the original point has been lost to time.

Regardless, I don't view it as a retcon more as Champa misunderstanding what it was and Vados clarifying as a way to further explain the ability to the audience.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
I definitely agree with Omega here it’s just multiple different time manipulation techniques. He can skip through time, stop time, etc. Pretty sure blud has an attack called time cage too he just has a plethora of different time manipulation attacks, I have no idea why y’all making this difficult.
Click to expand...
It's because deep down inside they don't want it to be Goku preforming an immeasurable speed feat, even if it maybe is an outliner or something.
 
RedReaper said:
No, it’s not in Sub. I broke down the statements a page or two ago, and pointed out that the “Prediction” they refer to in Sub is whatever he was doing in Kaioken specifically, as King Kai is referring to gamble he made alongside it to keep up with Hit.

Meaning the “ordinary” Predictions he was doing before the Kaioken that is separate—Something that makes total sense when you consider Goku’s been predicting attacks from enemy master Martial Artists since OG DB—Him predicting now and messing himself up just straight up doesn’t make sense on a tangible level. Considering that, Goku’s “Predictions,” according to King Kai, wasn’t just him predicting Hit—But rather him predicting “…a few seconds in time/reading things ahead.”

Which is why I suggested it be Limited Precog.
Click to expand...
To be fair it wouldn't make sense for goku to have precog
 
If it's base Goku, lad would be at a x50 disadvantage, if not more
But Super 17 can't really kill Cell, so he'd just go for one of his dura neg abilities and win lol
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
If it's base Goku, lad would be at a x50 disadvantage, if not more
But Super 17 can't really kill Cell, so he'd just go for one of his dura neg abilities and win lol
Click to expand...
would it matter if its base goku? Because he still has ssj4 at his disposal, it should be all his power
 
My money is on Incon. Cell is far too arrogant to not try and test his powers, giving Super 17 free energy to enhance himself with.

That, combined with his Hyper-Sensitivity that counters IT, means that he effectively will be stronger, faster, etc.

He also can read/predict movements, allegedly, so Cell’s uber fighting style wouldn’t matter for very long.

Cell’s real wincons would be his physical options, like his acid blood or whirlwind blow, but Super 17’s Barrier was able to protect him from a self destruct technique that used absolutely all of SSJ4 Goku’s Energy, so him punching ain’t gonna do 17 in, and that Energy Barrier would probably keep everything else out, too.

On top of all of that, Super 17 has Infinite Energy, so he can fight indefinitely without tire.

The only real thing Cell has going for him is his laundry list of moves, giving him the ability to dupe himself, caused paralysis, etc. most of which he doesn’t use, and his death given immortality, which just prevents him from dying to a superior opponent and losing.

Not even Cell’s sealing would work, since his Hell version requires Frieza, and even saying it did, it was made clear that the manner of killing in Hell wouldn’t work on anything but the dead. On top of that, him eating Super 17 wouldn’t work, because he literally would not be able to stomach him, just like how he couldn’t stomach Goku.
 
Last edited:
XXBenShapiroXx said:
This would be a slam dunk if Hit didn't stop time for people in broad daylight against Jiren and during a job. That was my point, saying it's retconned is an awful arguement, because he can both skip and stop time.

So like, it's not a retcon, Hit's time skip.... skips time.

Truly the biggest retcon of all time.
Click to expand...
Doesn't he also evolve his Time Skip while fighting Goku to freeze him? I could have sworn that was how he dodged the X10 Blue Kamehameha.
 
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