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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Yeah, the biggest generator of garbage articles would be CBR.
Legit just look at any CBR article and 99% of the time it'll be about something we already knew or is completely nonsensical, and it's never in between
 
Speaking of CBR and illogical claims, I just debated with someone that argued any character who is "godlike" and stated to be immortal literally cannot die by any means, even if it's due to the actual concept of death attacking them. They also later said that the term NLF does not apply to statements of a power being limitless, where they claimed that "true" immortality can exist, and that NLF does not apply to it.

They also said that assuming any kind of immortality in fiction is not "true" immortality is making a bias, subjective view on it, and that any immortality in fiction should first be assumed as literal immortality.
 
They're the kind of casual debater that says things like omnipotence can exist, and doesn't actually understand the first thing about debates.
 
So I wanna ask this question. How strong would Goku (from DB to DBS) be if he had Broly's potential?
 
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Like if Goku was the Legendary Super Saiyan? Dude would practically be the One Punch Man of DB, not sure how far he'd get into Super but assuming he trains then he could be angel level
 
Broly went from below casual base Vegeta to comparable with SSJB Gogeta in one battle. Goku would already be stronger than everyone in OG Dragon Ball by the time Bulma finds him lol. Pilaf Saga practically wouldn't exist. Goku still trains with Roshi but gets a slight increase in strength while a big increase in skill, most likely, and he would master the Kamehameha on the first use he used to destroy a car I'd bet. Roshi/Jackie Chun wouldn't stand a chance and the tournament is a breeze. I could go over the rest of OG but you get the point.

In DBZ, I'd imagine Raditz would give Goku a surprise, but Goku still stomps without much issue. Assuming he trains hard for Nappa and Vegeta, they're fodder. No one on Earth dies as Goku wouldn't die to Raditz, also meaning Goku doesn't develop a connection with King Kai, nor does he learn the Kaioken or Spirit Bomb, and, even more importantly, negating the entire Namek Saga as they would have no reason to go there. Frieza would probably become immortal if he still goes to get the Namek Dragon Balls, but I don't wanna go over that scenario, Vegeta might die trying to sabotage him or just remain under Frieza's heel, as I would see Goku still sparing him. Etc. throughout Z.

Honestly, things only really get even remotely challenging around Super. Goku would give Beerus a pretty good fight on King Kai's planet, and Goku by this point could probably be even stronger than SSJG Goku. Keep in mind that Broly was already at least comparable to base Vegeta, who would be MUCH stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku when he fought Beerus. So Goku would probably satisfy Beerus even without taking on a godly form. Beerus I imagine would still go to Earth after incapacitating Goku due to powering up. But Goku wouldn't have spared Buu most likely, meaning that Beerus wouldn't get mad, and would already be satisfied from Goku's battle against him, so I don't see Super Saiyan God even making an appearance yet, but Goku and Vegeta would still get it due to training with Whis. RoF is a breeze. U6 Tournament just ends with Goku stomping everyone after getting back in the ring. Future Zamasu Arc...well, Goku Black would also have crazy potential, even without the addition of Broly's, so I'm not sure how that would go. ToP would still be difficult because of Jiren, but overall U7 would win without much trouble. Broly movie would be interesting as Broly would have equal potential to Goku, but I imagine that Goku doesn't even fuse with Vegeta. Vegeta just gets a round with Broly, before Goku comes in and finishes it up. He has a massive headstart on Broly, plus the same potential. And Moro arc I imagine wouldn't change too dramatically.
 
Wait, would God ki even be a concept at all? would Vegeta even be around the Z fighterz? and....oh shit what about Gohan?
 
Dr. Gero would probably do better in designing the Android's, but I highly doubt he would create anything capable of defeating Goku. While he had canon Goku's power in mind when making the Android's, including 19 and himself, nothing suggests he could make Android's millions if not billions of times stronger than in canon. I also doubt he would have seen Goku's full power by that point, either. Cell would probably be a bigger threat, and would also have Broly's potential, but Goku would still be too far ahead of him I'd imagine.

Why would God Ki not exist? I doubt Goku would choose not to spare Vegeta in this version, especially if he can beat Vegeta without much issue. If we're saying that Goku's potential passes onto Gohan (which doesn't make sense as Broly's potential is more than just having special blood, or else Paragus would be a godlike Saiyan as well), Gohan would also be very powerful, potentially even more powerful than Goku if he were to train hard. Hell, since Goku would almost never die or have much reason to go off Earth for training, he would probably spend more time with Gohan, which could entice Gohan into balancing more between studying and training.
 
RinneItachi said:
Canon Dragon Ball except Goku is born with the strength of his Heroes (Xeno Goku) counterpart lmao.
Click to expand...
I mean, outside of VS stuff, I doubt the DBH writer think Xeno Goku is much stronger than in canon XD.

Kinda same for Jump Force Goku.
 
Well I'm on a Scourge vs Broly thread though that kind of died off till today, but I'm sure there's other threads going on right now that are more interesting
 
@RinneItachi I mean Xeno Goku in practically all versions of Heroes is comparable to canon/Capsule Corp Goku (though the game has Xeno stating that CC was a step above him) so I can imagine his strength wouldn't change much aside from more experience and techniques
 
It's kind of weird. I remember their being implications that Xeno Goku is far beyond the actual main timeline DBS Goku, but then you have implications of him being on par with said Goku. Then again, it is Heroes.

Anyways yeah, I mainly meant when referring to how strong Xeno Goku actually is based on scaling to at least high tier multiversal, more so multiversal+ characters.
 
Well tbf, CC Goku IS the Heroes version of Super Goku (just with a few differences like experiencing some of the movies) though if you put Xeno Goku in Super but he has his Heroes scaling then he'd absolutely be unfathomably more powerful then canon Goku
 
Of course. Xeno Goku with the Heroes scaling would annihilate Zeno by breathing too hard. Jiren would be complete fodder to him, even in base at less than a quindecillionth of his base form's power. So funny how he's only two tiers ahead of the Super top tiers, but still more than infinitely superior.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Well I'm on a Scourge vs Broly thread though that kind of died off till today, but I'm sure there's other threads going on right now that are more interesting
Click to expand...
I checked it, it was kinda meh TBH.

Been a while since I saw an interesting match up here TBH.
 
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Well if the post Goku Black Low 2-C CRT gets accepted, we'll see some more matches.
Which asks the question, how many of you think that DBS has been Low 2-C before the Tournament of Power?
 
Personally, I think that they're on the border of 2-C, in so far as that'd be a thing, by the end of the FT arc due to IZ crossing the distance between timelines and Low 2-C in BoG.

Anyone GoD-tier and above would be 2-C, albeit baseline with the normal scaling chain. On a nice day I might include IZ simply due to him only failing thanks to Zeno, but if not, he'd be the highest Low 2-C in DBS in my eyes.

But all in all, I'm not the most dissatisfied with the ratings of the anime.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Well if the post Goku Black Low 2-C CRT gets accepted, we'll see some more matches.
Which asks the question, how many of you think that DBS has been Low 2-C before the Tournament of Power?
Click to expand...
I'm on the 'BOG count as low 2-C' team. Infinite Zamasu not being straight up 2-C is nonsense to me.
 
I know that many generally agree that BoG is Low 2-C because of statements that the Macrocosm would become a void of nothingness (and I believe the other supporting feat is effecting the entire afterlife) but why hasn't Goku been Low 2-C scaling to Beerus? As far as I'm aware with 4-D and above you don't drop down a tier even if you're using 1% of your power so the fact that Goku can fight Beerus in some form should be Low 2-C. But if I'm wrong please let me know
 
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If the BoG universe clash is worth Low 2-C then Goku would logically scale to that because he made up for half of the power being exerted, I don't think that's what gave DBS Low 2-C in the first place though.

Also, from a narrative perspective I doubt the writers intend for any characters to be above what would be rated as 3-A, Low 2-C at most for the very top tiers, but based on given evidence I'd go with the Goku Black arc characters and beyond that already being Low 2-C.
 
RinneItachi said:
Also, from a narrative perspective I doubt the writers intend for any characters to be above what would be rated as 3-A, Low 2-C at most for the very top tiers, but based on given evidence I'd go with the Goku Black arc characters and beyond that already being Low 2-C.
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None of the writers make any difference between 3-A and Low 2-C, because most people, including scientist, don't.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I know that many generally agree that BoG is Low 2-C because of statements that the Macrocosm would become a void of nothingness (and I believe the other supporting feat is effecting the entire afterlife) but why hasn't Goku been Low 2-C scaling to Beerus? As far as I'm aware with 4-D and above you don't drop down a tier even if you're using 1% of your power so the fact that Goku can fight Beerus in some form should be Low 2-C. But if I'm wrong please let me know
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I mean, scaling Beerus to BoG Goku creates massive circular scaling.
 
Regarding the universal stuff, I saw these on discord.

In general, I feel like many of the tier 2 DBS supporters don't understand space-time continua or tier 2 that well. Destroying a space-time continuum doesn't just mean destroying the spatial universe as well as the flow of time so that time no longer flows - it means destroying the spatial universe at every point in time, from the beginning to the very end. This is what qualifies you for Low 2-C and up, although it is not the only way to reach that high, of course.

For Infinite Zamasu to be Low 2-C off of merging with Universe 7, he would have to be spreading throughout it not only spatially, but temporally as well - in other words, into the past and the future. He evidently does not do this, because we don't see him going across time beyond a small part of him showing up in the present, and he is killed by a technique that evidently did not erase the timeline itself, since Whis can still go to a point in that timeline before Zeno erased everything in it.

In the first place, declaring Universe 7 to be its own space-time continuum distinct from the other 11 Universes implies that its past and future are not shared with the past and future of any other Universe, and yet Gowasu and Zamasu know about Future Trunks having gone into the past to change Goku's fate because it created a new time ring in their drawer, which suggests that the 12 Universes share the same time axis, after all.

To be honest, any verse that scales characters to somewhere in the multiversal levels of power based on destroying multiple universes should be downgraded if it is provable that those universes were only destroyed at one moment and not across all moments. Even if they are causally separated, the most this would grant is Interdimensional Range.
~ Jayderpyrus


Low 2-C is effectively destroying uncountably infinite snapshots of the spatial universe, so, yeah, it isn't the same thing as 3-A anyway.
~ Ultima
 
Isn't it more so like Whis would send them to a different timeline, one where Zeno didn't destroy the timeline?

Even the anime seems to state that Whis doing this would create a new time ring, which are linked to new timelines so I doubt that he would've specifically sent them back to his own timeline
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
To be honest, any verse that scales characters to somewhere in the multiversal levels of power based on destroying multiple universes should be downgraded if it is provable that those universes were only destroyed at one moment and not across all moments.
Click to expand...
People are indeed ignoring this part a lot, since this statement is completely true. If people actually read in detail all the information we have on our tiering system pages, they'll realize universal destruction is far more commonly 3-A than Low 2-C.
 

The madlads at 4KIDS actually removed the scene where Vegeta punches Goku in the face in the opening, in a martial arts fighting anime. It's no wonder why 4KIDS went out of business to me
 
Dragon Soul is hands down my all time favorite DB opening theme, mainly for nostalgic as I watched Dragon Ball Kai on Nicktoons (unfortunately) and it made me feel like those kids in the 90's that watched Z on Toonami
 
Nostalgia wise, I'll say CHALA-HEAD-CHALA always gets me the most, but my favourite has to be We Gotta Power.
 
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