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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Vietthai96 said:
said the same guy who deny Low 1-C DBH hmmmmmm
Click to expand...
In Planck’s defense, the evidence for Low 1-C crack of time could be slightly better. This is what we know about it now:
The crack of time contains infinite 4-dimensional timelines in the form of small crystals. The destruction of the crystals is consistently juxtaposed with statements about timelines or the very distortion of time and space. The crystals display images of events across time too. The crack of time is stated to contain non-existent history. To reach prison planet, the sky is fractured to create a crystalline rupture revealing a space with countless crystals. It's directly called a space between dimensions. It's said to be separated yet adjoined to all dimensions.

It's a contruct that transcends time. The crack of time, where Mechikabura was sealed, was stated to be a space beyond time. The fight against Demigra in the crack of time was called an adventure beyond time and space. The battles there are stated to take place in super-dimensional spaceand hyperdimensional space multiple times. Reaching it was described as an act of transcending time and space. It's said to be separated from the dimension of time. "Time" is also referred to as an axis in Dragon Ball Heroes multiple times.

When entering the crack of time, characters become unquantifiably larger than 4-dimensional constructs. The size of the crystals relative to the characters ranges from somewhat larger than them to noticably smaller than them. The crystals appear as numerous and miniscule as endless stars. Within the crack of time, Fu holds a distorted universe in his hand which is smaller than an arm and monitors an infinitely small Goku from the outside.

It's far beyond the scope of the multiverse itself. After nuking the multiverse, Demigra went to the crack of time to be safe from the destruction. It's stated to be out of reach for the gods and the highest in the dragon ball cosmic hierarchy, with Super Shenron's power explicitly incapable of reaching the universe tree in it, hence it could only destroy the rootsthat were sapping energy from universes. Even after the destruction of an infinite multiverse, no damage to the crack of time was mentioned or visualized.
Click to expand...
This is decent stuff. It’s stated to be a super-dimension, lie beyond space-time, be unreachable via 2-A stuff, and view the timelines as small and insignificant (even Planck said in the ongoing staff revision that viewing space-time as specks would be enough for Low 1-C in his eyes). The issue is, it doesn’t have just enough evidence of qualitative superiority by this site’s standards to be upgraded from merely above baseline 2-A. I mean… death battle buys Low 1-C Crack of Time, hence why they had Archie Silver at 6-D and Trunks at 5-D in the Q&A blog. But without something at the very least like a higher plane statement, we’re just unfortunately short of proof of an inaccessible gap.

But just as many of the staff are even starting to admit, the standards for Low 1-C and cutoff point where a “higher plane outside time” can be considered Low 1-C rather than above baseline 2-A are hilariously vague and messy.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
In Planck’s defense, the evidence for Low 1-C crack of time could be slightly better. This is what we know about it now:

This is decent stuff. It’s stated to be a super-dimension, lie beyond space-time, be unreachable via 2-A stuff, and view the timelines as small and insignificant (even Planck said in the ongoing staff revision that viewing space-time as specks would be enough for Low 1-C in his eyes). The issue is, it doesn’t have just enough evidence of qualitative superiority by this site’s standards to be upgraded from merely above baseline 2-A. I mean… death battle buys Low 1-C Crack of Time, hence why they had Archie Silver at 6-D and Trunks at 5-D in the Q&A blog. But without something at the very least like a higher plane statement, we’re just unfortunately short of proof of an inaccessible gap.
Click to expand...
The CRT that @Reiner What is doing wouldn't change level 1 things as they are?
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
In Planck’s defense, the evidence for Low 1-C crack of time could be slightly better. This is what we know about it now:

This is decent stuff. It’s stated to be a super-dimension, lie beyond space-time, be unreachable via 2-A stuff, and view the timelines as small and insignificant (even Planck said in the ongoing staff revision that viewing space-time as specks would be enough for Low 1-C in his eyes). The issue is, it doesn’t have just enough evidence of qualitative superiority by this site’s standards to be upgraded from merely above baseline 2-A. I mean… death battle buys Low 1-C Crack of Time, hence why they had Archie Silver at 6-D and Trunks at 5-D in the Q&A blog. But without something at the very least like a higher plane statement, we’re just unfortunately short of proof of an inaccessible gap.
Click to expand...
no no no, i present the exact same of what you said, and people still disagree anyway, let face the truth, no one want DB get to tier 1, Arale have tier 1 without any problem, until DB start scaling to her, that the truth
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
In Planck’s defense, the evidence for Low 1-C crack of time could be slightly better. This is what we know about it now:

This is decent stuff. It’s stated to be a super-dimension, lie beyond space-time, be unreachable via 2-A stuff, and view the timelines as small and insignificant (even Planck said in the ongoing staff revision that viewing space-time as specks would be enough for Low 1-C in his eyes). The issue is, it doesn’t have just enough evidence of qualitative superiority by this site’s standards to be upgraded from merely above baseline 2-A. I mean… death battle buys Low 1-C Crack of Time, hence why they had Archie Silver at 6-D and Trunks at 5-D in the Q&A blog. But without something at the very least like a higher plane statement, we’re just unfortunately short of proof of an inaccessible gap.

But just as many of the staff are even starting to admit, the standards for Low 1-C and cutoff point where a “higher plane outside time” can be considered Low 1-C rather than above baseline 2-A are hilariously vague and messy.
Click to expand...
Important disclaimer: I personally think that timelines being actual specks displaced across a higher order space would make the totality of that space Low 1-C.

But my opinion =/= site standard.
 
Vietthai96 said:
no no no, i present the exact same of what you said, and people still disagree anyway, let face the truth, no one want DB get to tier 1, Arale have tier 1 without any problem, until DB start scaling to her, that the truth
Click to expand...
I mean, we were on the verge of gaining “possible Low 1-C crack of time” before the revision got stonewalled hard by Strym and some other guy who tried using Zastando arguments. To be fair though, at some point, we Dragon Ball supporters need to get better at recognizing and squashing out stonewalling if this verse is getting anywhere. Strym spent hundreds of messages stonewalling the Low 1-C crack of time revision by arguing that “the crystals aren’t actually timelines.” You guys could have ended that by simply pointing out that the crack of time was called “the space between dimensions,” but instead you entertained his poor arguments and “contradictions.”

I remember saying I joined this site because the Low 1-C neutral space staff thread was going horribly, and I wanted to do something about it. The first thing that caught my attention even before I was fully registered was that Pein spent a great deal of time stonewalling the thread with “3-A macrocosm” and “perpendicular time flow” arguments that could have been debunked extremely easily, but instead you guys were playing into his hands and entertaining his stuff.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I mean, we were on the verge of gaining “possible Low 1-C crack of time” before the revision got stonewalled hard by Strym and some other guy who tried using Zastando arguments. To be fair though, at some point, we Dragon Ball supporters need to get better at recognizing and squashing out stonewalling if this verse is getting anywhere. Strym spent hundreds of messages stonewalling the Low 1-C crack of time revision by arguing that “the crystals aren’t actually timelines.” You guys could have ended that by simply pointing out that the crack of time was called “the space between dimensions,” but instead you entertained his poor arguments and “contradictions.”
Click to expand...
Look at how fast staffs agree with him, i understand no point to argue anymore, simply because they don't want to see tier 1 DB, that all, so i don't bother to argue
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
This is decent stuff. It’s stated to be a super-dimension, lie beyond space-time, be unreachable via 2-A stuff, and view the timelines as small and insignificant (even Planck said in the ongoing staff revision that viewing space-time as specks would be enough for Low 1-C in his eyes). The issue is, it doesn’t have just enough evidence of qualitative superiority by this site’s standards to be upgraded from merely above baseline 2-A. I mean… death battle buys Low 1-C Crack of Time, hence why they had Archie Silver at 6-D and Trunks at 5-D in the Q&A blog. But without something at the very least like a higher plane statement, we’re just unfortunately short of proof of an inaccessible gap.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, in DT's eyes, even if the space that contains Universe is infinite or very large compared to single Universe which is finite, won't be enough for Tier 1 but rather only if it's 5D axis or 5D volume would be that large. But ofc, you won't need this much mental gymnastics or have to be a good cook if you have this specific statements. Although DT is not the sole authority is another thing.
 
Hey so I noticed Zarbon had that 3 times multiplier accepted which y'know, based, but I just thought of a problem that could lead to so I wanted to ask something. Goku has a power level of 32,000 with the Kaiokenx4 which is superior to Vegeta who was 30,000 when he defeated Zarbon and during his fight with Recoome. So given that he has a higher power level than someone that beat transformed Zarbon that would mean KKx4 Goku also scales to 178.32 Zettatons right? And do we still treat the Kaioken as a linear multiplier?
 
Dust_Collector said:
Hey so I noticed Zarbon had that 3 times multiplier accepted which y'know, based, but I just thought of a problem that could lead to so I wanted to ask something. Goku has a power level of 32,000 with the Kaiokenx4 which is superior to Vegeta who was 30,000 when he defeated Zarbon and during his fight with Recoome. So given that he has a higher power level than someone that beat transformed Zarbon that would mean KKx4 Goku also scales to 178.32 Zettatons right? And do we still treat the Kaioken as a linear multiplier?
Click to expand...
Probably was just talking about Kaio-ken x4 Goku's kamehameha
 
Dust_Collector said:
Hey so I noticed Zarbon had that 3 times multiplier accepted which y'know, based, but I just thought of a problem that could lead to so I wanted to ask something. Goku has a power level of 32,000 with the Kaiokenx4 which is superior to Vegeta who was 30,000 when he defeated Zarbon and during his fight with Recoome. So given that he has a higher power level than someone that beat transformed Zarbon that would mean KKx4 Goku also scales to 178.32 Zettatons right? And do we still treat the Kaioken as a linear multiplier?
Click to expand...
Kaioken is still treated as a linear multiplier, so base Goku should probably be upgraded to keep it's consistency if that's the case. Also, it's really weird how the official translation and even the japanese scan says that Vegeta's power level was above 20,000 and not 30,000
 
ChronoULT said:
Kaioken is still treated as a linear multiplier, so base Goku should probably be upgraded to keep it's consistency if that's the case. Also, it's really weird how the official translation and even the japanese scan says that Vegeta's power level was above 20,000 and not 30,000
Click to expand...
If we upgrade Base Goku we end up with (Basic) Kaio-Ken Goku being stronger than Vegeta tho
 
ChronoULT said:
Kaioken is still treated as a linear multiplier, so base Goku should probably be upgraded to keep it's consistency if that's the case.
Click to expand...
But that's the issue, if we upgraded base Goku it'd cause an endless loop where the AP of these characters just keep rising.
 
I think it would be easier to scale Base Vegeta to 1/10th of Oozaru Vegeta, who has the same pl as Kaioken Namek Goku iirc, who's base form is 1/6th of First Form Frieza going off of what I suggested earlier. And then go from there.
 
Reiner said:
Unfortunately, in DT's eyes, even if the space that contains Universe is infinite or very large compared to single Universe which is finite, won't be enough for Tier 1 but rather only if it's 5D axis or 5D volume would be that large. But ofc, you won't need this much mental gymnastics or have to be a good cook if you have this specific statements. Although DT is not the sole authority is another thing.
Click to expand...
Would time being stated to be an axis in DBH help with the 5D axis stuff considering the neutral space is already accepted as Insignificant 5D?
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
I think it would be easier to scale Base Vegeta to 1/10th of Oozaru Vegeta, who has the same pl as Kaioken Namek Goku iirc, who's base form is 1/6th of First Form Frieza going off of what I suggested earlier. And then go from there.
Click to expand...
I've checked the numbers, and Zarbons multiplier makes things weird if we're trying to make Kaioken x4 Goku scale to it.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
Would time being stated to be an axis in DBH help with the 5D axis stuff considering the neutral space is already accepted as Insignificant 5D?
Click to expand...
At worst, if the neutral space is insignificant 5D and the overarching timeline isn‘t either 6D or significant 5D, then wouldn’t the crack of time possibly be “insignificant 6D”? Or is that only if it contains significant 5D structures? If it is insignificant 6D, then by Ultima’s definition (which in my opinion is horrible logic but whatever) it is bigger than any significant 5D space, thus Low 1-C regardless. That’s only IF one can achieve insignificant 6D just by holding a timeline which itself contains insignificant 5D space
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
I've checked the numbers, and Zarbons multiplier makes things weird if we're trying to make Kaioken x4 Goku scale to it.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's my concern lmao, shit gets weird if we go that route.

Transformed Zarbon = 178.32 Zettatons
KKx4 Goku = 178.32 Zettatons
Base Goku = 44.58 Zettatons
KKx2 Goku = 89.16 Zettatons
Saiyan Saga Vegeta = 89.16 Zettatons
Transformed Zarbon = 267.48 Zettatons

Repeat forever for universe level saiyan saga Goku.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Yeah that's my concern lmao, shit gets weird if we go that route.

Transformed Zarbon = 178.32 Zettatons
KKx4 Goku = 178.32 Zettatons
Base Goku = 44.58 Zettatons
KKx2 Goku = 89.16 Zettatons
Saiyan Saga Vegeta = 89.16 Zettatons
Transformed Zarbon = 267.48 Zettatons

Repeat forever for universe level saiyan saga Goku.
Click to expand...
Basically Kaioken x4 and Zarbon's multiplier just can't mix no matter what it seems, just messes things up.
 
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